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Post by larrball on Jun 19, 2013 20:58:05 GMT -5
Just my .02 cents but.
It's not the type or brand of oil you use.
It's the frequency of said oil change, if it look's like it need's it then more
then likely it does.
If you wipe a bit on you'r finger and you can't see your finger.. it's time for a oil change.
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Post by jerseyboy on Jun 19, 2013 21:53:08 GMT -5
[replyingto=larrball]larrball[/replyingto]I would do it WAY before it gets that dirty,,as soon as it gets a little brown I do it,,around 500 miles,,quart of oil is cheap insurance.Do the gear box every other oil change if you want,,but synthetic will last quite long in the gear box,,there is no carbon to dirty it up,,so once you get the initial metal flakes from break in out,,its good to go for a while,, at least 2K miles I would say.
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Post by prodigit on Jun 19, 2013 23:04:17 GMT -5
Synthetic oil IS "dyno" oil all they do is order the molecules the way they want them but, all motor oil comes out of the ground. Some just gets a higher level of processing. So that being said it is all compatible. Also I haven't seen any evidence that at least in a air cooled GY6 that it has any advantage worth the extra cost of your run of the mill motorcycle oil... Semi synthetic oil is dino oil. Fully synthetic oil is a much different process. They don't refine dino oil, they build up the molecules from the ground up using gasses (like ethylene or propylene and other stuff..). |
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Post by rockynv on Jun 20, 2013 3:54:32 GMT -5
Not sure of the economy of buying a $500 scoot and then putting $20 or so a month worth of oil in it. $240 a year for oil is a pretty stiff price to pay putting synthetic oil in a motor with no oil filtration system at all aside from a crude screen never mind one rated to the micron level specified to get any real benefit from a synthetic oil.
Synthetic oil is very good for engines designed to take advantage of it however a GY6 is not really one of them.
Even if you get and extra 2 years out of the engine getting to say 6 years instead of 4 you will have potentially spent around an additional $1400 to get those extra 2 years from that $200 engine. That would be like paying $2,000 for that $500 scoot.
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Post by justputtnaround on Jun 20, 2013 8:00:58 GMT -5
I use royal purple synthetics in my paladin in past scoots I have used mobile synthetics with no issues
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Post by jerseyboy on Jun 20, 2013 8:13:19 GMT -5
[replyingto=rockynv]rockynv[/replyingto]My Rotella cost me $6 at Walmart,,I would never buy that motorcycle brand snake oil stuff.
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Post by scootnwinn on Jun 20, 2013 8:33:53 GMT -5
Synthetic oil IS "dyno" oil all they do is order the molecules the way they want them but, all motor oil comes out of the ground. Some just gets a higher level of processing. So that being said it is all compatible. Also I haven't seen any evidence that at least in a air cooled GY6 that it has any advantage worth the extra cost of your run of the mill motorcycle oil... Semi synthetic oil is dino oil. Fully synthetic oil is a much different process. They don't refine dino oil, they build up the molecules from the ground up using gasses (like ethylene or propylene and other stuff..). Not exactly most companies use a large portion of type 3 below and call it synthetic From Wikipedia Synthetic motor oils are man-made oils from the following classes of lubricants:
Polyalphaolefin (PAO) = American Petroleum Institute (API) Group IV base oil
Synthetic esters, etc. = API Group V base oils (non-PAO synthetics, including diesters, polyolesters, alklylated napthlenes, alkylated benzenes, etc.)
Hydrocracked/Hydroisomerized = API Group III base oils. Chevron, Shell, and other petrochemical companies developed processes involving catalytic conversion of feed stocks under pressure in the presence of hydrogen into high-quality mineral lubricating oil. In 2005, production of GTL (gas-to-liquid) Group III base stocks began, best of which perform much like polyalphaolefin. Group III-base stocks are widely permitted to be marketed as synthetic motor oil with few exceptions where they are not allowed to be marketed as "synthetic" (for example, Germany).[citation needed]
Semi-synthetic oil[edit]
Semi-synthetic oils (also called 'synthetic blends') are blends of mineral oil with no more than 30% synthetic oil. Designed to have many of the benefits of synthetic oil without matching the cost of pure synthetic oil. Motul introduced the first semi-synthetic motor oil in 1966.[14]
Lubricants that have synthetic base stocks even lower 30%, high-performance additive packs consisting of esters can also be considered synthetic lubricants. In general, ratio of the synthetic base stock is used to define commodity codes among the customs declarations of tax purposes.
Other base stocks help semi-synthetic lubricants[edit]
Group II- and Group III-type base stocks help to formulate more economic-type semi-synthetic lubricants. Group I-, II-, II+-, and III-type mineral-base oil stocks are widely used in combination with additive packages, performance packages, and ester and/or Group IV polyalphaolefins in order to formulate semi-synthetic-based lubricants. Group III base oils are sometimes considered synthetic, but they are still classified as highest-top-level mineral-base stocks. A Synthetic or Synthesized material is one that is produced by combining or building individual units into a unified entry. Synthetic base stocks as described above are man-made and tailored to have a controlled molecular structure with predictable properties, unlike mineral base oils, which are complex mixtures of naturally occurring hydrocarbons.[15][16]Its cheaper |
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Post by waterboysh on Jun 20, 2013 10:14:53 GMT -5
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Post by shalomrider on Jun 20, 2013 12:50:37 GMT -5
howdy, i'm going to post another opinion simply as another opinion. i have used synthetics exclusively since 1975 because i'm convinced that they are better for the engine. here's my logic however idiotic it may be.
the reason the engine runs cooler with synthetic oils, which i think is commonly acknowledged here, is that friction is reduced thus less heat. the friction that causes the heat is metal to metal contact which results in the heat and in small particles of metal being dispersed in the oil. the logic i seem to be seeing here is that the synthetic should be changed as often as non synth. i see that as untrue sinply because there is less metal being scraped of into the oil thus less of the contamination that would need to be removed by an oil refreshment. since there is , by all investigation, less contamination there is less often need to change the oil and that changes the economic consideration alluded to above.
i have acquired my vehicles with lots of miles already on them , then changed to synthetic oil and run them many more. never have i had any indication other than that the synthetic oil extended the life of the engine. i have sold many with upwards of 200,000 miles and several with 300,000 miles and have seen them running long after i sold them.
so there is another opinion
Lotsa miles and smiles to ya
ken
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Post by sailracer on Jun 20, 2013 18:10:10 GMT -5
sounds good to me  My only concern was that the two may not be compatible. I am now convinced they are. |
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Post by prodigit on Jun 21, 2013 0:35:57 GMT -5
I don't know who put $20 per month in their scoots, but on average, I do an oilchange per month (~1000km/month), and that would be a quart of oil, not a gallon.
So ~$5/month, equals to $60 per year on oil. Still less than a car, which has 3 oilchanges per year, at $25 each.
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Post by rockynv on Jun 21, 2013 4:39:39 GMT -5
More critical is the antifoaming agents and other properties of an oil formulated for a higher reving scooter engine so putting $6 synthetic automotive oil in is worse for the engine then using a traditional oil rated for motorcycle/scooter engines. If you use the correct dino oil formulated for a scooter you will be better off then using the wrong synthetic automotive formulation. I was speaking to using only correctly formulated oils for the intended purpose. The correct synthetic formulations for scooters which are around $20 a quart locally and may be found for around $10 a quart on the internet. Thats around $240 local prices or around $120 internet per year.
Regardless of the cost the GY6 is not set up to truely benefit from synthetic oil so your throwing money away for little to no benefit using a synthetic rated for scooters and throwing money away for potentially less protection putting an automotive synthetic oil in a scooter.
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Post by domindart on Jun 21, 2013 16:25:05 GMT -5
every 500 miles comes way to soon for me, so I decided on every 1000 which I think is sufficient enough cause I'm also running castrol synth motorycle oil
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Post by sailracer on Jun 21, 2013 16:42:36 GMT -5
Yeah, I think changing oil every 500 miles is a bit OCD.  |
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Post by rockynv on Jun 21, 2013 22:34:17 GMT -5
every 500 miles comes way to soon for me, so I decided on every 1000 which I think is sufficient enough cause I'm also running castrol synth motorycle oil The problem with that thinking is that synthetic is going to suspend any combustion byproducts allowing them the recirculate through the oil pump however due to the lack of a real oil filter these particles will not get trapped so they will just be sent on though to the crankshaft and valve train which would indicate the need on a GY6 to change the oil more often and not less often. |
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