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Post by spandi on Apr 24, 2017 17:29:21 GMT -5
Funny you guys should mention this, I just came back from a storage unit with a pair of Nelson-Rigg saddlebags, each of which is the size of a carry-on bag. (Makes even a large scooter into a two wheeled U-Haul 😁)
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Post by ricardoguitars on Apr 24, 2017 18:08:39 GMT -5
This scooter has plenty of weight on the front end.  That's the perfect commuter, no cager would dare to cut you off, or not leave a gap. |
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Post by Jarlaxle on Apr 24, 2017 20:48:41 GMT -5
I liked my Helix, but just wasn't comfortable with that tiny 10" rear tire on the highway.
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Post by rockynv on Apr 25, 2017 4:11:51 GMT -5
People are people and mess up regardless of what they ride under inflating tires, setting rear preload too soft with some then making it worse scooter or motorcycle by changing the seating position and weight distribution of the bike. On a scooter the rider offsets the rear engines weight by having a seating positon over and slightly forward of the engine however many want a cruiser style seating position yet still purchase a scooter with a forward seating position and then lower the seat and remove the bolster so the rider is now seated behind the engine throwing the balance off. Now that the padding is too thin so they lower the rear spring preload setting and tire pressure making the balance even worse however now with less weight on the front of the bike the front bounces more so they lower the front tire pressure so now when they brake the tread squirms even more causing greater shake inducing wear.
Sometimes we are our own worst enemies.
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Post by dollartwentyfive on Apr 25, 2017 8:18:47 GMT -5
There are some guys arond thst have successfully installed and ran a 12 inch tire but idk what they did about a rim. i would imagine they scrounged an axle from a chinese scoot and installed it in the helix. my 244 sported a 13 inch rim, but that left very little rubber between it and the ground. i don't know whether the engine is the same as the elite, but the elite final drive is an almost identical clone to my chinese final drive. the axle bearings are the same, and this would imply the axles are interchangable between the chinese model and the japanese model. |
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Post by rockynv on Apr 25, 2017 12:01:09 GMT -5
Remember that the Cannonball is won on a points system that credits the rider too and not just who had the fastest/best scooter. Sometimes a good rider on a 150 can win if especially if they are good at picking their route.
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Post by w650 on Apr 25, 2017 14:46:58 GMT -5
The points system is a handicap equalizer. It just makes the event fair. Otherwise people would just emulate the 2012 winner who stuck a Ninja motor in a scooter. It wouldn't be a scooter event anymore since scooters aren't really the best at long distance. They're made for the short haul.
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Post by w650 on Apr 25, 2017 15:23:26 GMT -5
And just to be fair I will admit that Bill Leuthold calculated out the raw speeds for the event. His Vespa was fastest at 65 mph average. But here's the kicker. The 1986 Helix and 155cc Yamaha were both next with averages of 64 mph. Just 1 mph less on a cross country run. So the Vespa scarcely out-sped a 1986 carbureted scooter and a much smaller engined one. What you can glean from that is this. A well tuned 250 Vespa reaches about  mph flat out. A 155cc Yamaha can reach about 81 mph. A new 300cc Vespa doesn't go any faster than a 250cc Vespa at twice the cost of the Yamaha with half the engine. Plus a 1986 Japanese scooter is nearly as fast and just as solid. Japan quietly wins again in the two wheeled world. What I'd like to see next time would be a handicap system that lets a BV-350 in along with a 400 Burgman and maybe one 300cc motorcycle. Now that would be a contest worth watching. |
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Post by dollartwentyfive on Apr 25, 2017 17:24:21 GMT -5
From experience the CN (Real) and CH(real) share some parts. Idk if trans gears are one of these. Sfor the CF(Clone) afaik the gears will not interchange. I am wondering how much it would cost to have a rim turned and machined to fit the Helix four lug hub. The entire gear set May swap out, but most likely one piece from either wouldn't mix with the others. the only difference between the elite final drive and the final drive on my chinese scoot is: the elite used bushings for the countershaft bearings and my chinese scoot used roller bearings the clutch shaft, countershaft, and axle appear to be identical. even the final drive cover gasket is the same. keep in mind i'm talking about the elite, not the helix. the final drive on the helix could be very different from the elite. the shop manual for the elite was a very good resource for my ride. |
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Post by dollartwentyfive on Apr 25, 2017 20:48:55 GMT -5
the service manual i've been referencing is: elite CH250 ' - '  service manual. my engine was indeed manufactured by cfmoto and was of very good quality. the only difference i found was the countershaft bearings, but then again i never completely disassembled my engine. the variator on my ride had the cfmoto logo and CN250 stamped on it. |
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Post by rockynv on Apr 26, 2017 13:13:04 GMT -5
To me its not the bike that wins this event but the rider and the luck of the draw concerning running over nails/glass causing flat tires and hitting traffic jambs. My Aprilia tops out just shy of 100 mph however on a run at the legal speed limit on 25 to 65 mph roads you would not expect to see an average speed in the  + mph range. Too much emphasis is being put on brand and country of origin here as the whole point of this run is to mostly test the riders. |
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Post by w650 on Apr 26, 2017 15:08:35 GMT -5
The event is more a test of scooter than of rider. The days are only 300 miles but their evenings are filled with repairs, maintenance and preparation for the next day. The reason that Japanese scooters generally triumph is that they're less finicky. I mean REALLY, many of these people have to do belt replacements on a short 4,000 mile trip. I'm sure a bigger 650 scooter might not suffer but it's pretty amazing that an $7000 250 scooter needs to be fettle and coaxed to the finish. Here, read the Official thread, modernvespa.com/forum/topic148186?highlight=2016+scooter+cannonball+run |
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Post by cyborg55 on Apr 26, 2017 21:12:37 GMT -5
I think a lot of it is preparation,,,I could take any Chinese scoot pour in a ton of work and money and have a winner,,,Rich Carman the co founder of Scooter Doc got his sym and called me and sent me pics of the driveline clutch variator and he saw drill/ balancing marks and didn't know what they were,,,he never saw that on any of his Chinese bikes,,,this is the difference with the Chinese machines,,,they are better now,,but early metallurgy was poor at best,,,it's the labor to make it better is what makes it better,,,I can garauntee the winner bikes in the cannonball are one off heavily breathed on machines,,,full disassembly,,balanced rotating assemblies,,blueprinted,,,there is no doubt in my mind,,,some may be running stockers but they are not contenders,,,
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Post by spandi on Apr 26, 2017 22:18:45 GMT -5
I think a lot of it is preparation,,,I could take any Chinese scoot pour in a ton of work and money and have a winner,,,Rich Carman the co founder of Scooter Doc got his sym and called me and sent me pics of the driveline clutch variator and he saw drill/ balancing marks and didn't know what they were,,,he never saw that on any of his Chinese bikes,,,this is the difference with the Chinese machines,,,they are better now,,but early metallurgy was poor at best,,,it's the labor to make it better is what makes it better,,,I can garauntee the winner bikes in the cannonball are one off heavily breathed on machines,,,full disassembly,,balanced rotating assemblies,,blueprinted,,,there is no doubt in my mind,,,some may be running stockers but they are not contenders,,, Funny you should mention this, it is exactly what I did with my scoot. It took roughly four years from start to finish. With every piece wet sanded and polished until they gleamed. The frame getting nine coats of epoxy black automotive paint and two of clearcoat. The highest quality parts throughout. (Much higher than on standard "brand-name" bikes.) It took a mountain of work, but the result is stunning to see. ( I like to say I took a Chinese scoot and made a two wheeled Jag-u-ar out of it.) |
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Post by dollartwentyfive on Apr 26, 2017 22:28:37 GMT -5
i don't know man, after i got all the bugs out of my chinese ride, it was pretty dependable.
the number one problem with it was the electrics.
before i ironed that out, i was never sure it would start, or it was likely that it would die somewhere between here and there.
after i revamped the electrics, it never failed to start and i could ride it all day with no problems.
it also had a overheating problem, but i managed to solve that too.
i would certainly get another for the price i gave for mine, 1000 bucks with 82 miles on it.
the guy apparently sold it because the fuel valve prevented WOT.
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mph flat out. A 155cc Yamaha can reach about 81 mph. A new 300cc Vespa doesn't go any faster than a 250cc Vespa at twice the cost of the Yamaha with half the engine. Plus a 1986 Japanese scooter is nearly as fast and just as solid.
service manual.
+ mph range.
