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No Way
by: oldchopperguy - Mar 27, 2017 21:26:14 GMT -5
mftic likes this
Post by oldchopperguy on Mar 27, 2017 21:26:14 GMT -5
It seems like there is a LOT of agreement/disagreement on the aspects of braking these things. I dunno, I learned to ride at 13 on a pal's 1950's Harley Dresser with suicide clutch and hand-shift... mechanical "Fred Flintstone" brakes... sticky worm-drive throttle and spark controls on both grips. Probably the WORST setup since the leather belt-drive bikes of the teens.
It only took me riding a block to KNOW "this thing can kill me"... LOL! And it took a mile to figure out that it basically wouldn't stop in less than a football field... And it took about 5 miles on the expressway to learn that I was in LOVE with bikes... Whizzer, Cushman, Harley... The ALL sucked where braking (or ANY safety aspect was concerned...) but my pals and me understood that and made allowances.
Chainsaws are inherently potentially dangerous, so you make allowances. Firearms can be potentially dangerous, so you make allowances... Dating girls can be potentially dangerous, but I don't think there are any "allowances" there... LOLOLOL!
I realize times are different today... I started driving cars at 10, bikes at 13 and didn't get a drivers' license until 16. All the local police new we were underage, but so long as we didn't act like fools, they turned a blind eye. Our parents were glad we kids could drive so they didn't have to cart us around... There were no insurance requirements... The authorities figured if mom and dad trusted us with the family car, we couldn't be all that bad drivers... I honestly cannot recall ANY 10 to 15-year-old buddy ever having an accident or getting a ticket. But then, we all had guns and nobody ever shot his pal for his sneakers either... Times are different, but vehicles ARE a WHOLE lot safer too.
Back in my "day" there wasn't any safety training available. You just climbed on and learned as you went. I'm all for training, AND modern brakes... But if even a new rider with no experience is careful, he/she should be OK. My first Chinese scooter had that funky, phoney "ABS" front brake, but it was OK... My "new" Kymco has "decent" but not great brakes by today's standards, and they are fine. I just made sure to find some slippery stuff, gravel, loose dirt, leaves, etc. and CAREFULLY see what happened with various applications of both brakes, individually and together. In short order, I knew what my scooter would, and would not do.
My favorite "test" was locking both wheels on dry road... The old mouse slid straight and true... Then, I tried it on the oily center of the lane at a stoplight... Of course, she started to whip around and get full-goose-Bozo... So let off both brakes, tap the rear and she snaps back straight again like she should... Sure, I got a little "squirrely" and I wobbled a little, did a little foot-dance and had to think fast to keep from dropping the thing, but after all, it IS a scooter, NOT a 1,000-pound cruiser... And muscle-memory comes pretty fast, even at 70 years old.
I don't think any modern brake setup is truly dangerous... Some are better than others, sure... but all are light-years ahead of the stone-age rides of my youth. Training is GREAT, but common sense is MANDATORY. Both together are a good combination.
It's just not rocket science... My opinion only of course... LOL!
Ride safe!
Leo
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No Way
by: oldchopperguy - Mar 26, 2017 17:22:30 GMT -5
Post by oldchopperguy on Mar 26, 2017 17:22:30 GMT -5
This whole front brake phenomenon has been going on since I was a kid... And THAT is a long time ago... LOL!
Back in my early riding days (1958-1970 or so...) I rode Harley big twins almost exclusively. First, choppers: the chopper jockeys often solved the problem by simply REMOVING the front brake, simply for "cosmetic" purposes... NOT a good idea, and even my "Old Blue" retained her front stopper.
Now, one must note that the cable-pull mechanical drum-brake on a fifties' Hog was just one step better than dragging your feet "Fred Flintstone" style. Stopping a Harley from 60-mph took about a football field. So, WE practiced "avoidance" rather than braking. When the car stoplights started coming on ahead of us, we had to "thread the needle" at whatever speed we were going... Quite an adventure... might evolve into a "code brown" moment... LOL! Still, that PATHETIC front brake DID provide over HALF of the little braking that was available. The pedal-and-rod mechanical drum brake on the REAR could easily lock up the rear wheel, but that didn't provide much "whoa" either. At BEST, I'd estimate a fifties' Hog with both brakes working offered about 20% of the braking available on the worst Chinese scooter today. And THAT is being "generous"...
I have been EXTATIC over simply having hydraulic disks on both ends of modern rides, period... To me, the WORST, grade-C Chinese disks are FANTASTIC... almost a MIRACLE compared to what I had 50 years ago. Of course, cars have gotten that much better too... I've ridden modern bikes and scooters with all types of contemporary brakes, and frankly, I like them all just fine. It's only a matter of testing them out at first to see how they work for you in the real world. Try them on that wet, oily strip in the center of the lane at a stoplight... on sand, gravel, leaves, etc. Chances are that whatever kind of brakes you have, they will be fine as soon as you learn their idiosyncrasies. My current ride, good old "Minnie Mouse" a 2007 Kymco Grandvista 250 has a system that I like quite well... Single disks front and rear, double-piston front caliper and single-piston rear. Right lever applies front-brake only, left lever applies 100% rear-brake and about 20% front-brake. It works great at slow speeds, using only the rear lever, and is controllable on most surfaces at any speed. Above 75-mph I could use a little more braking power, but the old mouse is only supposed to do 67-mph anyway... PLENTY of stop at that speed!
No matter WHAT kind of brakes you have on any bike made in the last 20 years, you probably have more than decent stopping power. Just use common sense... Don't use too much front brake on slippery/loose surfaces... Don't lock up either brake on most surfaces, etc. There is all sorts of safety advice available all over, and you can take safety courses. Through my "learning years" I managed to survive riding bikes with brakes that would be grounds for class-action suits in today's liability-crazy era of blame the manufacturers and forget about riders using common sense. I wonder when we'll see "self-driving" motorcycles? You KNOW it's coming... Yup.
USE that front brake, but use it SENSIBLY... Learn your ride's strong and weak points concerning not only braking, but all aspects of handling. Ride skillfully, sensibly and within your, and your bike's realistic limitations. You'll be just fine.
Ride safe, and watch those crazy "stoppies"... Just my two-cents worth after 55 years of riding... Leo in Texas
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Post by oldchopperguy on Mar 22, 2017 21:08:33 GMT -5
Not sure HOW this happened... Just ignore!<div class="quote" author=" rockynv " timestamp="1490157673" source="/post/125001/thread"><div class="quote_body"><div class="quote_avatar_container"><div title="rockynv" class="avatar-wrapper avatar_size_quote avatar-228"><img alt="rockynv Avatar" src="http://www.itistheride.com/Rbanlogo/SDlogo.png"></div></div><div class="quote_header"><a href="/post/125001/thread"><abbr title="Mar 21, 2017 23:41:13 GMT -5" class="o-timestamp time" data-timestamp="1490157673000">Mar 21, 2017 23:41:13 GMT -5</abbr></a> <span itemtype="http://schema.org/Person" itemscope=""><a title=" rockynv " class="user-link js-user-link user-228 group-0" href="/user/228" itemprop="url"><span itemprop="name">rockynv</span></a></span> said:</div>My daughters keep coming up with CD's with digitized copies of the 45's and LP's and most time agree that the Vinyl that I already have from back in the day played back on my Pickering Studio Cartridge sounds better. Its getting better but there is something about old fashioned analog sound. My 15" Vintage Cerwin Vegas probably help too.<div class="quote_clear"></div></div></div><b><i>Oh, Rocky... How true, HOW TRUE!</i></b><br><br>The system I still listen to mostly consists of stuff I got for my eighth-grade graduation present in 1960... Garrard turntable, Fisher tube amp, my Heathkit FM tuner got updated in 1969 with a newfangled Sony AM/FM tuner bought in Germany while I was in the Army...<br><br>My original Allied/Radio-Shack 8-track record/playback deck finally died and got replaced in 2002 with a similar one off eBay... I still have a box of NOS unopened 8-track tapes to record on!<br><br>My speakers are University coax 15-inchers with horn tweeters added, in handmade walnut boxes... and, yes, a good cartridge/stylus (needle to me...) sounds better on vinyl than the best CD's. The "crisp as breaking glass" treble on the CD's does sound great, but something is missing in the low end.<br><br>And, you just need a few scratches popping to truly relive the golden age of records... LOL!<br><b><i><br>OK, I'm waxing nostalgic...</i></b> I also still have copies of "Model Airplane News" "Hot Rod" and "Rod and Custom" magazines from 1956 sitting on the speakers for reading material. I well remember spending my precious allowance, 25-cents at a time on those great magazines... Never dreaming they'd still be my reading material when I was seventy. They're yellowed and moth-eaten, but great memories!<br><br>Time flies! Make the most of it...<br><br>Ride safe!<br><br>Leo<br>
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Post by oldchopperguy on Mar 22, 2017 21:07:03 GMT -5
My daughters keep coming up with CD's with digitized copies of the 45's and LP's and most time agree that the Vinyl that I already have from back in the day played back on my Pickering Studio Cartridge sounds better. Its getting better but there is something about old fashioned analog sound. My 15" Vintage Cerwin Vegas probably help too. The system I still listen to mostly consists of stuff I got for my eighth-grade graduation present in 1960... Garrard turntable, Fisher tube amp, my Heathkit FM tuner got updated in 1969 with a newfangled Sony AM/FM tuner bought in Germany while I was in the Army... My original Allied/Radio-Shack 8-track record/playback deck finally died and got replaced in 2002 with a similar one off eBay... I still have a box of NOS unopened 8-track tapes to record on! My speakers are University coax 15-inchers with horn tweeters added, in handmade walnut boxes... and, yes, a good cartridge/stylus (needle to me...) sounds better on vinyl than the best CD's. The "crisp as breaking glass" treble on the CD's does sound great, but something is missing in the low end. And, you just need a few scratches popping to truly relive the golden age of records... LOL!
OK, I'm waxing nostalgic... I also still have copies of "Model Airplane News" "Hot Rod" and "Rod and Custom" magazines from 1956 sitting on the speakers for reading material. I well remember spending my precious allowance, 25-cents at a time on those great magazines... Never dreaming they'd still be my reading material when I was seventy. They're yellowed and moth-eaten, but great memories! Time flies! Make the most of it... Ride safe! Leo |
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Post by oldchopperguy on Mar 22, 2017 20:46:17 GMT -5
If you can't drive without driver assistance, you shouldn't be driving, sell your ride and take the bus, lol. That's the problem with vehicle manufacturers, they want everyone behind the wheel/handle bars, but not everyone is good to the job, some people shouldn't be driving, lack of attention, way too aggressive, or just plain stupid, among others.  .......Yeah, I always hope the driverless car behind me can "see" my fat butt in time to stop. Just one more thing to worry about along with the drunks, texters, drunk texters, etc. LOL! Have a bone! Leo in Texas |
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Post by oldchopperguy on Mar 21, 2017 0:33:42 GMT -5
Somewhere buried in my mess, I still have a bunch of old Chuck Berry 45rpm records... Along with those by Ricky Nelson, Bill Haley and the Comets, The Big Bopper, Conway Twitty, /Dwayne Eddy, all the Black Motown groups... and of course Elvis! And many more. Good times never to be again...  Yeah, Chuck... Rest in Peace. You were, and always will be a true original, and the Father of Rock n' Roll. Leo (going on a search for those old platters) in Texas |
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No Way
by: oldchopperguy - Mar 20, 2017 15:16:49 GMT -5
Post by oldchopperguy on Mar 20, 2017 15:16:49 GMT -5
For what it's worth, for those who REALLY go nutz for modern technology, there is (maybe?) the new Cadillac Escala. It's supposed to be only a "concept" car, but there is one running around here... Gloss-black with matte-black ghost-graphics and I managed to get next to it at a stop-light.  The driver was a Cadillac technician from a Dallas store, and in a brief talk, scooter-to-driver's window, he wouldn't confirm if it was going to be available or not. But... It not only had "Star Wars" features not seen on anything short of the "Starship Enterprise"... And a motor of unknown number of cylinders (my guess, maybe similar to the upcoming Corvette mid-engine V-12).
Supposed performance? 900+ hp with a 9-speed manual tranny... 0-60 in 2.1 seconds, top speed of 225-mph. Dang! What a buggy to pick up cat litter at Wally World...  The car is definitely wrapped in secrecy, but not "disguised". Who knows? Could be that Bugatti has a new nemesis! If indeed it IS going into production, they won't be able to keep 'em on the floor... Probably under a million bucks, and every NBA, NFL player and TV preacher will be standing in line to buy one!
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No Way
by: oldchopperguy - Mar 20, 2017 14:43:46 GMT -5
Post by oldchopperguy on Mar 20, 2017 14:43:46 GMT -5
I really see both sides... Old-school simplicity AND modern high-tech. Lots to be said for both.
I can service my old Kymco Grandvista myself, but I can't even find the SPARK PLUGS on my Honda Accord V6. Both rides seem to be "bulletproof" and drop-dead reliable. But... If the Accord ever DOES act up, Heaven help me... LOL!
Some of these new cars don't even have the steering-wheel connected to the front wheels... The accelerator isn't connected to the throttle and the brake-pedal isn't connected to the brakes... They just enter "inputs" into the computer and it turns the wheels, opens the throttle and applies the brakes. I dunno... Seems like a recipe for a runaway car, or "no-stop" or "no-turn" scenario.
Somehow they seem to perk along anyway. As for DRIVERLESS CARS... I'll NEVER believe THEY are a good idea. Sorta like a "self-shooting" gun (and even THOSE are in the works).
I think ANYTHING potentially dangerous needs to have a REAL person (not brain-dead, not texting, not smoking a joint...) in charge of it. I feel anyone too lazy to drive, and too disconnected to care to guide his/her own ride would be better served with a good pair of walking shoes. Just me...
Too much stuff out there today "just because it can be made"... I do NOT want to scroll through a menu on a TV screen to figure out how to turn on my headlights, wipers, change the radio station, etc. And I am not in love with a radio-knob to change gears... LOL! Lots of answers to questions nobody's asking... LOL!
Ride safe, even if you're napping while a computer in La-La land is driving your scoot... It'll wake you up when you arrive at Grandma's house... I hope... LOL!
Leo in Texas
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Post by oldchopperguy on Mar 19, 2017 13:08:53 GMT -5
Looks like you did your homework pretty well! Have a bone!
One of these days I have to get over there and crack a few cold ones with you! -Rich Rich, That would be great! With my missus being in poor health, I'm not likely to ever get very far from home, but if you ever get around the Dallas/Fort Worth area, let's get together. It's still a pretty long ride on a scooter from Louisiana... LOL! Ride safe, Leo |
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Post by oldchopperguy on Mar 18, 2017 12:00:12 GMT -5
Looks like you did your homework pretty well! Have a bone!You're right though, a disclaimer IS in order. You can bet some Bozo will try to somehow carry a Honda Gold Wing or Harley bagger with a sidecar attached... or, maybe one of those reverse-trikes with a car motor/tranny.....  Or maybe a Smart Car, T-Bucket street-rod or Lord only knows what else... Lots of folks treat stupidity as a virtue... Yup.
Wishing you great success!Leo in Texas
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Post by oldchopperguy on Mar 15, 2017 12:41:55 GMT -5
As Flyangler said: "...because it's REAL"...
Yeah, the 109 is the real deal. I'm not a big fan of JFK's presidency, but he was a genuine American patriot, and true WWII hero. Now THAT is macho to the limit! And, in a way we need to see more of today...
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Post by oldchopperguy on Mar 13, 2017 23:51:19 GMT -5
Kat,
I DO know exactly how you feel... I did about the same thing with our "new" Honda car... First, I fell for a 6-speed stick-shift coupe, but found the heavy clutch was a deal-breaker with arthritic knees... Dang! I loved it... Then they rolled out this incredible, absolutely like-new sedan. It WAS love at first sight... And it's not even Italian... LOL!
Ride safe!
Leo
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Post by oldchopperguy on Mar 12, 2017 3:05:20 GMT -5
Gosh, I can't imagine it getting worse past 70 than I currently am.  At my beginner's MSF class, for the U-turn part of the test they said "If you have to, either put a foot down or go outside the lines. Do NOT do both!" Which I totally did. Drunk hippo on roller skates would be more adept than I was. Yes, I know about shifting on the seat to counter-balance and all that. But knowing and doing tight little Uies are not the same thing at all. I believe our coach came up to me afterwards and said something like, "Well, uh, yeah." shaking his head a little. At least I aced the swerve'n'stop and the panic-brake parts, so they could pass me. As for rider-forward, check out my pic in the scroll. You mean there's more forward than that on scooters? >'Kat
Kat,
I just checked your picture, and it DOES look like your scoot seats you about the same position as my Kymco. Very "nose-forward"... I'm still tempted to paint a black nose on "Minnie Mouse" put some buck-teeth under the front plastic... and add some plastic whiskers...One trick I've managed in those slow tight turns is to enter the turn very slow, and add just a little throttle while completing the maneuver. Just a teensy bit of acceleration does wonders to smooth out the turn and keep from needing to put a foot down. Worth a try!
Your big wheels help, too. I used a Kymco People 200 loaner while the dealer changed out my tires, and it was VERY similar to your scoot for style and proportion. The bigger wheels DID handle just a teensy bit better than my little 12-inchers. My little front wheel wants to "plow" through the turn and acceleration stops that... Unless you're on slippery stuff... LOL!Also, I've found looking through a windshield actually hampers those tight slow turns too, at least for me. Sorta like threading a needle while wearing gloves... Not much of a problem, but looking over, or around it helps some. The windshield "disconnects" you from direct vision of the ground. My Harley baggers with windshields did the same thing. But it's worth it for the benefits of the windshield! Old memories sometimes come back in funny ways... Back around 1964 I was asked to give a safety course for motor-bikes to our high-school. Of course, my only ride was "Old Blue" my 250-hp chopper. All went fine until my demo of a no-feet slow U-turn. I crept into the marked turn area, hit the throttle and dumped the clutch, spinning three beautiful 360-degree donuts in-place, covering the parking lot in rubber smoke and peppering the supervising observer-police officer with shards of shredded tire-tread... The kids were impressed. The officer was not...  I found even little 20-hp "Minnie Mouse" can do that IF the pavement is plenty wet with dew and road-oil... But at 70, I still put a foot-down... To lazy and arthritic to repair all that plastic if it hits the tarmac... And it STILL impresses the little brain-dead teenies... Some things never change...
Ride safe!Leo |
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Post by oldchopperguy on Mar 12, 2017 2:32:13 GMT -5
Dang! While I love the quality of Italian scoots, I'm not all that gaga over their styling... usually. But... THIS is one slick-looking ride. Looks to match the performance... SWEET! Sounds like a winner! OI!  Watch what you're writing about Peej there, Leo!    'gull, I'm guessing it had all that work 'cause it hit a mile-point for it. Like 5k, or 7500, 0r 10k. rocky can tell you for sure what that means. I haven't gotten far enough yet to need more than fluid changes....  >'Kat
Sorry... No offense meant  Italian scoots are wonderful, I just have a slight preference for the Vespa "turtledeck" style, or these more exotic new designs speaking strictly of cosmetics... Lord knows, my old Grandvista is considered downright "skanky, butt-ugly" by most modern riders... LOL! You should never marry, OR buy a vehicle based on looks. Yup! After all, beauty IS in the eye of the beholder...  Have a bone on The Old Chopper Guy as a peace-offering, and give Peej a gallon of Ethyl and a good night's sleep. All will be better in the morning... Ride safe... Leo |
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Post by oldchopperguy on Mar 11, 2017 16:55:53 GMT -5
... Regardless of weight-distribution, I think Asian riders actually prefer an extreme FORWARD position as close to "over the front wheel" as possible. While American riders like an extreme REARWARD position, over the rear wheel, "Lazyboy recliner-chair" style. ... I must have Asian in my German heritage then, 'cause I despise the recliner position (although one bro has his seat so very reclined he might as well be napping in his car). Can't stand it in my car, I assume I couldn't stand it on my scoot. But I'm not all that forward either, more just a natural "sit up straight" position. ... The only negative aspect of the extreme forward seating position for me is in low-speed tight-maneuvers like "walking-speed" U-turns. [/b] It just feels totally "wrong:" and awkward. I could do those on a stretched Harley chopper in my sleep, but on the Kymco, I find myself putting both feet out and feeling like I just learned to ride yesterday... I feel like I'm just TOO far "up front" to have a natural sense of balance, and the scooter and I sort of "waddle".
This is another good reason NOT to buy before test-riding any bike...Ride safe, and keep yer' nose off the windshield! Leo in Texas[/quote] Yeah, THAT's why I can't do the U-turn maneuver! I knew it wasn't just me being a twit about it! >'Kat[/quote] _______________________________________________________________________ Kat,
Most Italian scoots like yours are not nearly so "rider-forward" as the Asian bikes, and especially the Taiwanese versions. The lumbar support on mine does place me much further forward than I'd prefer, but I've found I can comfortably slouch down against it and a bumpy road even gives a little "massage"... LOL! The only time I'm not "comfortable" is in very low-speed tight maneuvres. I get the false impression of "falling forward" that I don't get when riding a bike with a more rearward seating position. If I'd have learned to ride on this Kymco, there would be no problem. Old riding habits die hard... LOL! Overall, this scoot has been SO good, I cannot complain if it makes me look a little amateurish in a U-turn... Any speed over 5-mph is as steady as a big Harley... And, the danged support DOES force the rider to leave PLENTY of room for even the most "ample" passenger... I could put 2 or 3 teensy Asian ladies like the manual shows behind me... No one bike is likely to be "perfect" for all uses, but, this one has proven to be a marvelous compromise, being good in town and on the highway (at least up to her 75-80 top end) which sometimes still just "ain't quite enough" giddyup. Even my old 1970 Harley bagger while stable at speed, would barely top  -mph, and truly SUCKED in slow, tight city traffic. "Minnie Mouse" is FAR better for combined general riding. And, yeah, your are not the only one who feels like a drunk hippopotamus on roller skates in those pesky 2-mph U-turns at the mail-box... LOL! And it seems to get worse past 70... EEEWWW! Ride safe!Leo |
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Italian scoots are wonderful, I just have a slight preference for the Vespa "turtledeck" style, or these more exotic new designs speaking strictly of cosmetics... Lord knows, my old Grandvista is considered downright "skanky, butt-ugly" by most modern riders... LOL! You should never marry, OR buy a vehicle based on looks. Yup!
-mph, and truly SUCKED in slow, tight city traffic. "Minnie Mouse" is FAR better for combined general riding.