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Post by mikestib1 on Mar 9, 2017 12:08:26 GMT -5
Read my share of testers and owners complaints regarding lack of leg room and seat humps that lock you in position. The manufacturers are not doing this to make us uncomfortable, rather they want to weight the front wheel for safe handling.
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Post by oldchopperguy on Mar 9, 2017 23:46:33 GMT -5
THAT is probably TRUE... My old Kymco Grandvista 250 suffers from that syndrome even more than most. At first, I felt like my nose was against the windshield!
The original owner did oval-out the lumbar support mount holes for an extra 3/4" rearward position, and though small, it actually makes a noticeable difference. I've gotten used to it, and do like the support on my lower back. I'd like it better if it was 6" farther back though... LOL!
All the drawings in the Kymco manual showing a rider on the scoot, draw the rider to appear about five-feet tall, usually a girl, and her knees almost on the dashboard, leaning forward, with her face just off the windshield... Regardless of weight-distribution, I think Asian riders actually prefer an extreme FORWARD position as close to "over the front wheel" as possible. While American riders like an extreme REARWARD position, over the rear wheel, "Lazyboy recliner-chair" style.
After decades of riding choppers, I admit I got used to the recliner-lounge position and the Asian (ESPECIALLY Taiwanese, as opposed to Japanese scooters) "over the front wheel" design took a LOT of getting used to.
Fortunately, the old Kymco is such a great scooter in all other respects, I had the patience to get used to the weird riding position and now I really like it. Of course, I also am over six-feet tall, with short legs... A throwback to apes maybe... so my knees don't mash the dashboard, and when needed I can actually look OVER the tall Givi windshield.
The only negative aspect of the extreme forward seating position for me is in low-speed tight-maneuvers like "walking-speed" U-turns. It just feels totally "wrong:" and awkward. I could do those on a stretched Harley chopper in my sleep, but on the Kymco, I find myself putting both feet out and feeling like I just learned to ride yesterday... I feel like I'm just TOO far "up front" to have a natural sense of balance, and the scooter and I sort of "waddle".
This is another good reason NOT to buy before test-riding any bike...
Ride safe, and keep yer' nose off the windshield!
Leo in Texas
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Post by SylvreKat on Mar 10, 2017 8:13:16 GMT -5
... Regardless of weight-distribution, I think Asian riders actually prefer an extreme FORWARD position as close to "over the front wheel" as possible. While American riders like an extreme REARWARD position, over the rear wheel, "Lazyboy recliner-chair" style. ... I must have Asian in my German heritage then, 'cause I despise the recliner position (although one bro has his seat so very reclined he might as well be napping in his car). Can't stand it in my car, I assume I couldn't stand it on my scoot. But I'm not all that forward either, more just a natural "sit up straight" position. ... The only negative aspect of the extreme forward seating position for me is in low-speed tight-maneuvers like "walking-speed" U-turns. [/b] It just feels totally "wrong:" and awkward. I could do those on a stretched Harley chopper in my sleep, but on the Kymco, I find myself putting both feet out and feeling like I just learned to ride yesterday... I feel like I'm just TOO far "up front" to have a natural sense of balance, and the scooter and I sort of "waddle".
This is another good reason NOT to buy before test-riding any bike...Ride safe, and keep yer' nose off the windshield! Leo in Texas[/quote] Yeah, THAT's why I can't do the U-turn maneuver! I knew it wasn't just me being a twit about it!  >'Kat |
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Post by wheelbender6 on Mar 11, 2017 10:21:50 GMT -5
The seat-forward position is ok in town, for maneuverability. On the open road, I'd much rather have a variety foot and seat position options to avoid cramps. My long flat seat works really well.
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Post by mikestib1 on Mar 11, 2017 16:40:23 GMT -5
If you don't load the front tire, you are not in control of a bike. Safety over comfort IMO.
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Post by oldchopperguy on Mar 11, 2017 16:55:53 GMT -5
... Regardless of weight-distribution, I think Asian riders actually prefer an extreme FORWARD position as close to "over the front wheel" as possible. While American riders like an extreme REARWARD position, over the rear wheel, "Lazyboy recliner-chair" style. ... I must have Asian in my German heritage then, 'cause I despise the recliner position (although one bro has his seat so very reclined he might as well be napping in his car). Can't stand it in my car, I assume I couldn't stand it on my scoot. But I'm not all that forward either, more just a natural "sit up straight" position. ... The only negative aspect of the extreme forward seating position for me is in low-speed tight-maneuvers like "walking-speed" U-turns. [/b] It just feels totally "wrong:" and awkward. I could do those on a stretched Harley chopper in my sleep, but on the Kymco, I find myself putting both feet out and feeling like I just learned to ride yesterday... I feel like I'm just TOO far "up front" to have a natural sense of balance, and the scooter and I sort of "waddle".
This is another good reason NOT to buy before test-riding any bike...Ride safe, and keep yer' nose off the windshield! Leo in Texas[/quote] Yeah, THAT's why I can't do the U-turn maneuver! I knew it wasn't just me being a twit about it! >'Kat[/quote] _______________________________________________________________________ Kat,
Most Italian scoots like yours are not nearly so "rider-forward" as the Asian bikes, and especially the Taiwanese versions. The lumbar support on mine does place me much further forward than I'd prefer, but I've found I can comfortably slouch down against it and a bumpy road even gives a little "massage"... LOL! The only time I'm not "comfortable" is in very low-speed tight maneuvres. I get the false impression of "falling forward" that I don't get when riding a bike with a more rearward seating position. If I'd have learned to ride on this Kymco, there would be no problem. Old riding habits die hard... LOL! Overall, this scoot has been SO good, I cannot complain if it makes me look a little amateurish in a U-turn... Any speed over 5-mph is as steady as a big Harley... And, the danged support DOES force the rider to leave PLENTY of room for even the most "ample" passenger... I could put 2 or 3 teensy Asian ladies like the manual shows behind me...  No one bike is likely to be "perfect" for all uses, but, this one has proven to be a marvelous compromise, being good in town and on the highway (at least up to her 75-80 top end) which sometimes still just "ain't quite enough" giddyup. Even my old 1970 Harley bagger while stable at speed, would barely top  -mph, and truly SUCKED in slow, tight city traffic. "Minnie Mouse" is FAR better for combined general riding. And, yeah, your are not the only one who feels like a drunk hippopotamus on roller skates in those pesky 2-mph U-turns at the mail-box... LOL! And it seems to get worse past 70... EEEWWW! Ride safe!Leo |
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Post by SylvreKat on Mar 11, 2017 18:00:51 GMT -5
Gosh, I can't imagine it getting worse past 70 than I currently am.  At my beginner's MSF class, for the U-turn part of the test they said "If you have to, either put a foot down or go outside the lines. Do NOT do both!" Which I totally did. Drunk hippo on roller skates would be more adept than I was. Yes, I know about shifting on the seat to counter-balance and all that. But knowing and doing tight little Uies are not the same thing at all. I believe our coach came up to me afterwards and said something like, "Well, uh, yeah." shaking his head a little. At least I aced the swerve'n'stop and the panic-brake parts, so they could pass me. As for rider-forward, check out my pic in the scroll. You mean there's more forward than that on scooters? >'Kat |
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Post by oldchopperguy on Mar 12, 2017 3:05:20 GMT -5
Gosh, I can't imagine it getting worse past 70 than I currently am. At my beginner's MSF class, for the U-turn part of the test they said "If you have to, either put a foot down or go outside the lines. Do NOT do both!" Which I totally did. Drunk hippo on roller skates would be more adept than I was. Yes, I know about shifting on the seat to counter-balance and all that. But knowing and doing tight little Uies are not the same thing at all. I believe our coach came up to me afterwards and said something like, "Well, uh, yeah." shaking his head a little. At least I aced the swerve'n'stop and the panic-brake parts, so they could pass me. As for rider-forward, check out my pic in the scroll. You mean there's more forward than that on scooters? >'Kat
Kat,
I just checked your picture, and it DOES look like your scoot seats you about the same position as my Kymco. Very "nose-forward"... I'm still tempted to paint a black nose on "Minnie Mouse" put some buck-teeth under the front plastic... and add some plastic whiskers...One trick I've managed in those slow tight turns is to enter the turn very slow, and add just a little throttle while completing the maneuver. Just a teensy bit of acceleration does wonders to smooth out the turn and keep from needing to put a foot down. Worth a try!
Your big wheels help, too. I used a Kymco People 200 loaner while the dealer changed out my tires, and it was VERY similar to your scoot for style and proportion. The bigger wheels DID handle just a teensy bit better than my little 12-inchers. My little front wheel wants to "plow" through the turn and acceleration stops that... Unless you're on slippery stuff... LOL!Also, I've found looking through a windshield actually hampers those tight slow turns too, at least for me. Sorta like threading a needle while wearing gloves... Not much of a problem, but looking over, or around it helps some. The windshield "disconnects" you from direct vision of the ground. My Harley baggers with windshields did the same thing. But it's worth it for the benefits of the windshield! Old memories sometimes come back in funny ways... Back around 1964 I was asked to give a safety course for motor-bikes to our high-school. Of course, my only ride was "Old Blue" my 250-hp chopper. All went fine until my demo of a no-feet slow U-turn. I crept into the marked turn area, hit the throttle and dumped the clutch, spinning three beautiful 360-degree donuts in-place, covering the parking lot in rubber smoke and peppering the supervising observer-police officer with shards of shredded tire-tread... The kids were impressed. The officer was not...  I found even little 20-hp "Minnie Mouse" can do that IF the pavement is plenty wet with dew and road-oil... But at 70, I still put a foot-down... To lazy and arthritic to repair all that plastic if it hits the tarmac... And it STILL impresses the little brain-dead teenies... Some things never change...
 Ride safe!Leo |
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-mph, and truly SUCKED in slow, tight city traffic. "Minnie Mouse" is FAR better for combined general riding.