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Post by rcq92130 on Jan 8, 2016 15:20:02 GMT -5
Starter looks normal
Have a link to the piston/jug you bought? Who knows - maybe they sent you a BBK w/o you knowing.
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Post by rcq92130 on Jan 8, 2016 1:11:19 GMT -5
Yippeeeee !
Sounds like a ground connection is loose or corroded. But - yea!!!!!!!!
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Post by rcq92130 on Jan 8, 2016 0:56:00 GMT -5
Just for yuks - can you post a link to the starter motor you got?
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Post by rcq92130 on Jan 8, 2016 0:54:18 GMT -5
If that does not work , then the issue is either on the opposite side " starter clutch side" , top end or inside the case. Whoa, George. Not to argue - but thinking thru this ... That gear is a to get off and even worse to get back on. And even though Murky may not use the kick starter, without that gear the variator won't work. Seems like a million-to-one shot this is the problem, since the gear was not messed with since the engine was running fine. My suggestion would be to assume it's OK and move on. I thought Apricot was going to take pix of the valve timing (the cam gear and the flywheel) ... just in case ... and I thought he would verify the placement of the black (negative) jumper cable when trying to jumpo start. And ... presuming that all is OK, I'd agree to either look at the cylinder work or the starter clutch (odds on favorite being the former). |
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Post by rcq92130 on Jan 7, 2016 23:12:28 GMT -5
Not to argue rockynv , but I'm confused at your concerns. The crankshaft and rod handle the force of thousands of explosions per minute, each of which is much more powerful than any impact wrench. I would be interested in reading some examples of people who have messed up their variator or crankshaft with an impact wrench, it could prove enlightening. /\ /\ /\ /\ what jerry said. |
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Post by rcq92130 on Jan 7, 2016 23:07:05 GMT -5
It's not a volts problem but only an amps problem.
You have proven that with enough juice the starter works fine. The problem - proven by what you did - is the lack of current to the starter motor. you have also proven the starter motor is adequate.
Before going any further - never, ever again attach a 100A device. In only a few seconds that will seriously degrade the batteries. If you wish to jump start, without damaging anything, do so with a known good car battery - car engine not running. That provides an "infinite" amount of amps but only at 12 volts. No damage.
Sounds like the wiring is good. Still, of course, could be corroded terminals in the solenoid. That can easily be checked by jumping, with a screw driver, the 2 solenoid terminals.
I hooked up a dual battery system for my GY6 (now 190cc). Knowledgeable people advised this was a bad thing to do UNLESS the 2 batteries are identical, since (otherwise), one will continuously draw down the other. First check would be a car battery jumpered to the scooters battery terminals. If that does not work then to the solenoid upstream terminals, then if no good to the solenoid downstream terminal, and finally to the starter + connector directly. That way you can isolate the problem.
When doing all this clip the black jumper cable as much as possible right onto the starter motor case to avoid any ground connection possibilities (current flow problems can as much be a ground connection issues as a "red wire" issue).
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Post by rcq92130 on Jan 7, 2016 20:20:27 GMT -5
Since these little electric torque wrenches are so close to heaven-sent ..... and because even $24 for a new on right after XMAS might be a challenge .....
my torque wrench tried to bit the dust about 6 months ago also. It was just the cig. lighter plug=in plug. Snipped it off, attached a pair of alligator clips to clip to the battery, and it's been back in business since. Note also the plug-in plug has a fuse inside that might be the only problem.
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Post by rcq92130 on Jan 7, 2016 18:30:33 GMT -5
PM Dan at Dansgaragetalk.com. he or Pistonguy have great experience with this.
but your problem is almost assuredly NOT "too much compression" If you have an advanced angle (NOTE: NOT advancing angle) CDI, toss it in the trash and get either a stock CDI or an advancing angle CDI from tvnacman. The advanced angel units make starting very difficult.
More important: you HAVE to upgrade the wiring. Stock ChinaWiring simply cannot supply enough current to the starter. Some of us add second, parallel wiring from battery to solenoid and from solenoid to starter ... and from battery negative to frame ground. Others rip out the OEM ChinaWiring and put in heavy gauge stuff in the starter loop (including ground). Unless you do one of these you might as well figure out a way to make the kickstarter work (good luck on that) because no starter motor on the planet will solve the problem.
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Post by rcq92130 on Jan 7, 2016 16:40:01 GMT -5
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Post by rcq92130 on Jan 6, 2016 20:57:07 GMT -5
I thought he had the BBK on already, I guess I missed something a few pages back, lol. I suppose there is always the chance Scrappy sent him a BBK piston & jug without him knowing it ... |
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Post by rcq92130 on Jan 6, 2016 12:59:54 GMT -5
Good job. The one thing I was looking for was the placement of the black jumper cable. It should have been attached to the frame. NOTE: if you connected it to the engine mounting bolt (the long bolt spanning the top of the engine) you will NOT have achieved a good ground connection, since the bolt floats on rubber bushings and is electrically isolated from the frame (sort of). Providing you clipped the black to the actual frame we are done with wondering about anything upstream of the starter motor.
I agree - there may very well be 2 problems - one that caused the thing to die during a ride, and another that is preventing it from turning over. The first order of business is to get the engine to turn over like it did with the plug removed, but with the plug in.
I can't imagine why you would need a high torque starter motor is you have not installed a high compression piston (i.e., a BBK).
Anyway, as you take stuff off to solve this - leave it all off until the engine is turning over properly (don't put the belt back on).
If it were me I'd next check valve timing.
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Post by rcq92130 on Jan 5, 2016 21:14:54 GMT -5
OK, Apricot, let's check out the advice from AllyOop ("He's the greatest", you know, like Mohamed Ali) since you are taking the belt off.
In case you have not yet taken a belt off: Remove the big nut on the variator. Best for this is a LIGHT DUTY (!!!) impact wrench - kind of like the electric one at Harbor Freight that many of us carry around in case a belt changes - they call it an impact wrench for removing car lug nuts. Lacking that, you need a way to hold the variator while your un-torque the nut. A special tool is on the web for this. But I suggest a quick trip to HF for the electric one that's driven off your battery.
Then simply pull off the outer drive face of the variator, and the belt will slip off.
So, to then check the "AllyOop advice" once the belt is off simply grasp the remainder of the variator from behind and slide it off. Then, leave all this crap off until you have the engine running properly. If the advice is correct the engine will then instantly start. Waiting with bated breath.
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Post by rcq92130 on Jan 5, 2016 15:09:06 GMT -5
Hey, Apricot, one other thing. Since you will be set up for a video anyway, would you mind taking another short video showing what happens when you jump from a car battery. It would be helpful to put "electrical" to it's final resting place to see both how you have the jumper cables attached, and to see the response when you touch red to starter motor. Ok no problem, should i do it with the plug in and out? Good idea. Plug out it should just spin - but to cover bases, might as well rule that out also. Remember with jumper cable - red cable directly to starter connection, not to battery terminal. |
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Post by rcq92130 on Jan 5, 2016 14:34:30 GMT -5
Hey, Apricot, one other thing.
Since you will be set up for a video anyway, would you mind taking another short video showing what happens when you jump from a car battery. It would be helpful to put "electrical" to it's final resting place to see both how you have the jumper cables attached, and to see the response when you touch red to starter motor.
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Post by rcq92130 on Jan 5, 2016 10:31:50 GMT -5
A note about using the puller
You take the nut off the flywheel; the puller screws into internal threads on the flywheel where the nut was (kind of like pulling the chainring on a bike). ***BUT*** .... under the nut is a washer, and if the washer is not remover you will not be able to get the puller threaded in very far. Many have stripped the threads off the flywheel that way. So - use a magnet or pick and get the washer out before using the puller. As i recall, the puller is threaded BACKWARDS.
Since you will have the valve cover off to get pix of the chain gear - take a few good up close pix of the valve assembly. Maybe someone can see something out of place there (it would be an easy fix .... though unlikely)
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