|
Post by rcq92130 on Jan 5, 2016 9:47:20 GMT -5
Aw, shoot. I was going to offer to send my puller to you - you can use it and return it when done. Probably not less expensive, considering postage 2 ways, but a lot faster than getting stuff from china. PM me if you want to do this.
If you can take pix - get one of the flywheel showing the timing mark and one from the side with the valve cover off showing the valve timing gear.
Sorry - I was totally convinced the problem was just a bad electrical issue, and now I'm pretty uncertain about where to go w/o tearing into stuff.
|
|
|
Post by rcq92130 on Jan 4, 2016 22:55:34 GMT -5
Yep. Just watched again and clutch pulley definately spins. If it were me I'd take the belt off - I'd start systematically taking a lot of stuff off, one at a time, until the problem was isolated.
As for valves being 180 degrees off.
Say you line up the flywheel correctly, and the piston really IS at TDC.
Then you set the chain with the 2 small holes lined up properly ... but with the big hole down instead of up.
180 degrees off.
|
|
|
Post by rcq92130 on Jan 4, 2016 22:51:02 GMT -5
Yeah, I got all excited when you said the belt was high/low - then realized unless the rear gears were frozen this would do nothing to the engine.
Either way, I suggested he remove the belt a while back just because it's so easy to do - and eliminates any possibility like you were suggesting. If, then, then engine spun freely the proof of a CVT issue would be 100%
We need Murky to respond a little more timely, also. Waited all weekend just to see if touching a jumper to the starter would solve the problem - a 5 minute check. We can get this narrowed down ... but quicker response is really needed.
|
|
|
Post by rcq92130 on Jan 4, 2016 20:00:20 GMT -5
I was thinking maybe something got put back together incorrectly when he did the jug work. Don't know if maybe getting the valve timing 180 degrees off would cause this - probably cause valves to hit the piston at TDC. Anyway - since he is just learning scooter repair, maybe that is where to look.
|
|
|
Post by rcq92130 on Jan 4, 2016 17:06:31 GMT -5
we must eliminate the starter clutch at this point. I agree it "might" be the starter clutch .... or something in the jug .... or bad bearings ..... But whatever it is shows up under compression but not with the spark plug removed. That should give us a clue (I know, it STILL might be the clutch ... but doesn't this make something else - like, maybe, valve timing - more likely?). Someone here should be able to point out the next most likely cause from among the many possibilities.
|
|
|
Post by rcq92130 on Jan 4, 2016 15:56:01 GMT -5
Ok when you Roll the Engine over By Hand, Complete 360 Rotations with the Spark Plug Out and Belt Off what do ya feel? This^ Bent rod, timing chain stuck, cam bearing failure, faulty valves, something around those lines could be the issue; if it doesn't spin freely, taking the engine apart is the only way to find out the issue. But it DOES spin freely! He took the plug out and the thing spun like a top. Without compression there is no problem spinning the engine. so ..... does anyone have any suggestions of how to DIAGNOSE what's up from among the many possibilities - so he can logically go from here, rather than just disassembling everything in the hopes of finding something???
|
|
|
Post by rcq92130 on Jan 4, 2016 14:17:20 GMT -5
Its looking like it could be the starter clutch . I dunno - at this point I'm really surprised and flummoxed. I assume the jumper cables were connected normally, and it's now verified this is NOT an electrical issue (which is stunning to me). But at this point i have no idea what to do next short of starting to tear the engine apart, which is a crappy dilemma.
|
|
|
Post by rcq92130 on Jan 1, 2016 16:10:23 GMT -5
Getting this thing dialed in. Running 12gr Dr. Pepper sliders with the ultra low ratio gear set and GEH's full-NCY clutch. If the engine is punched it will climb into the mid 7K range (~7,500 or so) .... but at 1/3 or so throttle it cruises along nicely at 55-60mph, the tach at 6,500 to 7K. For me, that is just about where i want things.
|
|
|
Post by rcq92130 on Jan 1, 2016 10:14:58 GMT -5
OK, to be clear:
We are waiting on Apricot to see if his engine turns over correctly by jump-starting from a known good car battery (car NOT running) directly to the screw on the starter where the large red wire attaches. The black jumper cable should attach to ground - if possible, directly to where the starter motor attaches to the case.
|
|
|
Post by rcq92130 on Dec 31, 2015 14:52:59 GMT -5
He hasn't yet done that, George. That's his next step - and it will tell us if the problem is upstream or downstream of the starter motor.
As an aside - since it's so easy, do you think he should remove the belt just to make sure, no matter how unlikely, it's not a rear clutch problem? Not very likely, but so easy to do - and to me you want to eliminate possibilities so you can narrow down on the problem.
|
|
|
Post by rcq92130 on Dec 31, 2015 14:45:02 GMT -5
Nah, Dollar, it's not about that at all!
Apricot has been here since 12/7 - 200 responses & 25 days and counting - in the hopes of getting his scooter back on the road. The poor guy is going to get frustrated and walk away in dismay!
We all should be concentrating not on our own experiences - no matter how valid - unless they directly relate to what we believe can best help Apricot out. A lot of the discussions here (soft seize, starter clutch, etc) are interesting and fun, but do they really help Apricot get back on the road? This thread got so convoluted and complicated GEH even tried starting a new thread for him moving forward. Maybe that was a good idea - don't see the thread any longer.
Anyway;
HAPPY NEW YEAR TO ALL !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Ride safe - there are a lot of amateur drunks on the road this time of year!
|
|
|
Post by rcq92130 on Dec 31, 2015 12:50:44 GMT -5
Yes, But Apricot has a GY6 150cc scooter. It's not clear to me how telling him about a 244cc engine helps him solve his problem. But that's just me.
Happy New year, everyone.
|
|
|
Post by rcq92130 on Dec 30, 2015 21:58:42 GMT -5
Alright so I just put in the new starter, its trying harder but it spins, catches a tough point and spins again And it's getting fuel there's a bit in the line before the carb now I "almost" guarantee you are fighting a battery problem (or wiring, or solenoid). Look at your video again and watch as the strength of the start decreased each time. The battery - while never providing much of a jolt to the starter - initially almost turns the engine past the high compression point (TDC, or top dead center). The next attempt is not as strong, and the last (were there 3?) pretty pitiful. Here is the chain of electricity from battery to idle gear: battery >>>>>> negative to frame (black wire) >>>>>> positive to solenoid (big red wire) solenoid:<<<<<< positive switching signal from ignition switch (small wire) <<<<<< negative to frame (small wire) <<<<<< big red positive wire from battery >>>>>> big red positive to starter motor starter motor: <<<<<< big red positive from solenoid >>>>>> no wire - ground connection via mounting screw to frame Your solenoid IDS switching (it's basically just a very high current relay, if you are familiar with relays). So, the +12v from your ignition switch and your small ground wire are working. We do not know if the internals of the solenoid are working (it's just a copper plunger that is pulled by electromagnet against a contact, connecting the big red wire from the battery to the big red wire to the starter motor. Often the copper plunger gets corroded with use (an internal spark happens every time it's used). But, that's easy to check (I think you did this with your old starter motor). The 2 big red wires attach with 10mm nuts to 2 screw posts on the top of the solenoid. If the nuts are not tight it's the same as if your battery nuts are not tight; if the plunger is corroded it's the same as if your battery terminal was corroded. Make sure the nuts are tight (BUT BE CAREFUL - THE WIRE TO THE BATTERY IS LIVE, AND IF YOUR WRENCH TOUCHES THE NUT AND ANY GROUND, LIKE THE FRAME, AT ANY TIME YOU WILL GET A BIG SPARK). Then, the way to "bypass" the solenoid and make sure it's not causing the problem is to use a screw driver to connect the 2 screw posts (don't disconnect the wires or you are not sending any current anywhere). Of course, don't touch the screw drive to ground when it's touching a terminal. You also could have a bad wire, or a bad ground connection. Make sure the bolts attaching the starter motor are tight (and trace the battery black cable to where it's attached to the frame and make sure it's tight also). BUT THE FIRST THING I WOULD DO IS "BYPASS" YOUR ENTIRE ELECTRICAL SYATEM AND JUMP START WITH A CAR BATTERY - BLACK FROM THE JUMPER CABLES TO THE FRAME, RED JUMPER CABLE TOUCHED DIRECTLY ONTO THE + TERMINAL ON THE TOP OF THE STARTER MOTOR. You do not need to disconnect anything to try this, and do not need to have the scooter key "on". What this does is provide +12 volts directly to the starter .... nothing else comes into play. If the starter motor then turns the engine normally you can then start to trace back to where the electrical problem is in your scooter. Of course, when you use the car battery the car should NOT be running. Let us know. ps: don't worry about fuel or anything at this point - until we get the engine turning ocver properly all that is meaningless.
|
|
|
Post by rcq92130 on Dec 28, 2015 22:06:14 GMT -5
"have any idea how much of that "eighteenth century technology" is used on a modern car engine? unless it has changed, the power for your "power brakes" is EXACTLY the same technology that these fuel valves use. any comment on that?"
Vacuum cleaners too And vacuum suction devices used in the surgery room And in closing food storage bags And in abortions (yuk)
But, silly me, I thought all along we were talking about FUEL DELIVERY !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Has anyone else noticed this thread has become the poster child of moving goalposts?
LOL LOL LOL
|
|
|
Post by rcq92130 on Dec 28, 2015 20:43:39 GMT -5
I've had the same foam uni filter for 20,000 + miles and its still going strong . it wouldnt be worth the $30 for a foam unifilter if you had to replace it after a couple cleanings. Yeah, but did your foam filter have bushings?
|
|