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Post by JR on Jul 1, 2013 0:34:31 GMT -5
[replyingto=alleyoop]alleyoop[/replyingto]Wrong diagram Alley, we got the Fashion diagram at Professor.
JR
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Post by JR on Jul 1, 2013 0:33:26 GMT -5
OK here is what I got form the diagram and from your label description and it all adds up to the typical circuit layout. Starting on the bottom from right to left: Black from key switch is hot with key on Next two circuits jumped to go with Black from Key switch, also hot with key on Red is from 20A fuse on starter relay and is hot all the time unless fuse is pulled or blown Now lets match them up color to color. First Black wire to Blue/Red is cooling fan Next Black wire is to White/Green and goes to horn, brake lights and starter relay combined when brake pedal/lever is pushed. That's the one labeled "starter" Next Black wire is to Black/Brown and goes to Fuel and temp gauges, Turn signals and the headlight passing switch. This switch when pressed brightens the hi beam side of the headlight which is used to pass someone, at least that's the idea? Last is the Red wire going to the Blue/Brown and that is the headlights and tail lights. (You can verify the tail lights part by pulling this fuse, if they go out then bingo) The one label you have called "charge" would indicate a charging meter or indicator? On my diagram it shows none? So now where are we at and here's what we know; Key switch is good and passing power to the fuse box correctly. Tail lights brake lights work and the scooter will start. Rest of the electrical system is whacko. I can't find the blue/black wire on the diagram that is on the key switch but I suspect it goes to the radio/MP3 player or is an accessory wire for add ons? So you ask the question, why the tail lights and no headlights. My answer is one of two things. The tail lights is the same on/off switch as the headlights but you can have them on and the headlights off just like in a automobile according to the diagram. Now I know you're pushing the switch for both to be on so here is the list of possibilities of why no headlights Switch is bad Switch is installed incorrectly ( did you ever replace this switch) Headlight wire from switch to the dimmer switch is broke Dimmer switch is bad Bad ground Now you have brake lights and it will start which is on the same circuit as the horn and it won't work, here is the list of possibilities: Wire from fuse box running to the horn is broke or no longer tied to the G/W wire from the fuse box Bad horn switch Bad horn Bad ground NO turn signals which I'll ask a question, does the fuel gauge work or move, same with the temp gauge? The passing light have you tried it? It should light up the high beam side with just the key on? If all these functions don't work then it's a: Blown fuse Broke wire feeding all these functions from the fuse box Bad ground to all of them If they all work except the turn signals then it's got to be one of these: Bad turn signal flasher Bad turn signal switch Broke wire tying into this circuit from the fuse box Bad Ground Now as you can see you have lots of possibilities and on every single one there is a common thing, "bad ground" I'll ask this again, did you check the ground cable off of the battery where it hooks up to the frame and any wires attached there. It is very common for the grounding wire in a harness to be divided into sections and one area like the back part (tail and brake lights) work and the front area not simply because the ground wire heading to one section is broke or making a very poor ground. It's common to see your problem associated with a very bad ground. I would not want to take this scooter to a shop and pay out the wasooo and have one bad ground wire be the problem. Lastly there still exists the possibility of a clump of wires in the harness for whatever reason being fused or melted together? Now I would check the grounds, can't get to them because of removing the plastic? That's your choice but you're not going to find this gremlin without exposing the circuitry, no way out of it. JR
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Post by JR on Jun 30, 2013 22:51:29 GMT -5
OK let me work with that color for a minute and I'll get back and that is valuable information, makes the puzzle come together a little more.
Didn't mean to say mislabeled but rather the horn is with other things on the same fuse and since you gave me the exact labels to each fuse that helps a lot.
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Post by JR on Jun 30, 2013 22:20:47 GMT -5
All fuses out... Got nothing.. Nothing lights up with the tester...no red light no power anything..
Put 20amp back in and the red wire lights up on both the fuse box and the ignition plug (unplugged)
Key on with 20amp in.. on the fuse box.. black across from blue/?? lights up as does the RED one on the fuse box.. FYI.. on the ignition Red, Black and Blue/Blk all lit up..
OK this tells me I'm headed in the right direction and the wiring diagram I have is right.
This also tells me there is nothing wrong with your key switch, reason I know this? With all the fuses out except the 20A one in the starter relay that feeds both red wires and the key on it is passing power to the black wire to the fuse box on the where I said it would. I haven't looked about the blue/black yet.
If you look at the black wire on the fuse box across from the blue/red you will see that it is jumped to the next two circuits or fuses in the fuse box. One has the green/white wire and the other is black/brown. I know your fuse box cover labels things but the diagram sometimes will label things another way and according to the diagram there are several things running off of the G/W including the horn. The black/brown goes to the headlights according to the diagram.
This also tells me that the fused 20A red wire from the starter relay is split and one heads to the key switch and the other to the fuse box and feeds a separate circuit and is not connected to the key switch in any way.
I need to know what this color the wire across from the red in the fuse box really is and then I can find where it goes.
Also at this point it now appears that your problems lie past the fuse box. It's not a direct short because if it was then it would be blowing fuses.
Also let me ask you this, when you started putting the fuses back in one by one did you leave other fuses in? Like when you put the fuse in the G/W socket and then moved on to the next fuse did you leave the fuse in on the G/W socket?
Because what I wanted you to do is put one in at a time and then remove it before you tried the next one.
We have made some progress.
JR
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Post by JR on Jun 30, 2013 21:16:51 GMT -5
Yes pull all the fuses like I said, check the reds to see if they are hot or not, re-install 20A fuse in starter solenoid relay then see if the reds are hot, plug in key switch and turn on, then check the black which is right across the blue/red (thanks Alley) to see if it has voltage. Then re-install each fuse one at a time to see if any of your functions work. The first one and according to the diagram is green/white and it goes to the horn. The black/brown is headlights. The blue/red should be blinkers. Leave the fuse with the red to black wire out when doing these tests. Read my directions again. Justguy1 you took a good picture of the back of the fuse block and it's easy to read the set up. JR
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Post by JR on Jun 30, 2013 19:31:17 GMT -5
I tried to edit this picture but can't on my tablet. This is my fuse box. The two wires on the left are the hot wires that the tester lights up when the key is off and no power. When I turn the key on then shut it off and pull it out you all know the power stays on till I hit the start button. So after the key is out the red stays hot. Those two wires are hot. The black wire on the ignition plug lights the tester dim as does the two wires 2nd to the left. OK I've got a idea and I need you to do some tests and answer a question. First of all the blue wire in the top corner is it a two colored wire? Your picture is unclear, is it blue/ Now I want you to do the following and record what you find on each thing here. I'm almost positive I've got the power hook up figured out and I just need you to verify it. Take all the fuses out including the 20A fuse on the starter relay all of them. Then take your test light and check to see if you have power on the red wire to the fuse box AND the red wire to the key switch with the key switch UNPLUGGED. After that put the 20A fuse back in the starter relay and do the same test see if you have power to the red wire on the fuse box and the key switch with the switch unplugged. Remember only put the 20A fuse back in leave the rest out. Now after that test I want you to plug the key switch back in and leave the 20A fuse in on the starter relay. Now I want you to turn the key on and then go test the black wire on the fuse box for power the bottom black wire right across the blue/ wire with ALL the fuses out of the fuse box. Now if you have power on the black wire I indicated with the key on then do this next with the key still on: Put the fuse in the socket with the green/white wire and hit your horn and see if it works. If it does then great, if it doesn't and the speedo and such still acts whacky then pull this fuse. Next put the fuse in on the socket that has the black/brown wire and see if your headlights work, if so then great if not then unplug that fuse. Lastly put fuse in the blue/ socket and see if you blinkers work? Now if the horn works fine leave the fuse, go to the black/brown socket and if that works then go to the last blue/ socket. If any one of them makes the scooter act whacky then leave it out and make note which one it was. This will tell us several things. First if both read wires are hot with the 20A fuse in then that means the red wire splits from the 20A fuse on the starter relay and one side feed the key switch and the other feeds ? but I think I know what it does feed. Also by the fuse box picture you posted the black wire on the bottom right across from the blue/ wire should be the black wire from the key switch and should be hot when the key is on. Now as you can see if this is so then it is looped to the next two circuits the horn and the lights. The last circuit of red to black is a totally separate circuit and DOES NOT come from the key switch. I know this is a lot but if you can do this step by step like I asked it will let us know what goes to what AND it possibly could give us a lead as to what circuit is causing your scooter to act crazy. JR
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Post by JR on Jun 30, 2013 15:30:34 GMT -5
I'm not sure what the law is in Florida about having a animal on a motorcycle or scooter. I do know the local police would be all over someone that did it though. I have been pulled over because my small dog was in my lap looking out of the window. The officer told me that he pulled me over because of the safety issue it caused. I didn't get a ticket or anything and I laughed it off but only after he was going back to his car. Self remind me that I can't move to Florida and let my dog ride with me on my scooter! ;D
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Post by JR on Jun 30, 2013 15:14:40 GMT -5
The fasteners on the scooter wind shields are called well nuts. They work great if you buy quality ones which you can get at any Ace hardware in the right sizes you need. I replaced mine because we all know the Chinese rubber is junk and will fail. Here is how they work: JR
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Post by JR on Jun 30, 2013 12:39:04 GMT -5
One is the radio.. the other is the ignition plug.. I will try to trace the wires.. guess it means taking more things off.. hope this works.. Do you know what wire is the ground wire for the blinkers, horn etc... Green is the ground for everything on this scooter. Your key switch plug has a green also. From the battery to the frame the negative battery cable is almost always black. That also reminds me, in all the things I've read I don't remember anyone advising your to check the ground to the frame as far as if it's tight, free from rust and/or paint and making a good solid connection. Usually where the black battery cable bolts on the frame these is a small ground wire that goes throughout the harness to supply the ground to things, even sometimes there are more than one ground wire. It's just another thing that needs to be checked out because a poor ground can make things act crazy too. Another thought I just had was the fact that you did install the battery disconnect switch to the cable to the frame and it may have been borderline when you installed the switch and now it's not grounding well at all simply because it was disturbed slightly when you put the switch in? I know you took the switch out but it's worth looking at and will cause no harm if it's ok. JR
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Post by JR on Jun 30, 2013 10:39:54 GMT -5
I put a pillow in a plastic milk crate and then use quality bungy cords to strap it on the back seat. I also have a little snap hook attached to it so I can snap it to my dogs collar. He loves to ride and doesn't try to jump out, just use that for safety. I actually have 3 Yorkies and two love to ride the other one isn't crazy about it. JR
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Post by JR on Jun 30, 2013 7:10:53 GMT -5
So not sure where we go from here...
Start with checking the fuse box holder where all the fuses go in. Look at each socket and make sure the fuse/s are making good contact.
Start tracing the wires from the fuse box, you may have to unwrap the tape or covering off of them.
Up where you have exposed the wires in your picture you are going to have to do the same thing, start unwrapping and tracing wires.
Also you need to unbolt the solenoid relay under the seat and inspect the wiring going to it to make sure any wires haven't fused or melted together.
Lastly in your picture there are two female plugs with nothing plugged into either one, can you tell me anything about those?
JR
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Post by JR on Jun 29, 2013 8:36:48 GMT -5
I've cleaned this thread up to get back on track to help Justguy1 to solve this issue. When he gets it opened up I'm sure we'll find the problem.
JR
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Post by JR on Jun 28, 2013 23:08:43 GMT -5
hey im glad you posted that picture of the solenoid..... I can tell you this.. I took my tester... and alligator clipped the NEGATIVE terminal.... and touched ALL 4 of those wires... The G/W, R/Y, R and R/W.. The only two that lit up where the R and the R/W the other two did not light up... This would be a correct test. The R and R/W are hot and if you pull the fuse the R/W will be dead too. The G/W is a ground wire from the side stand switch and is grounded only when the scooter is on the stand. The R/Y is hot only when you press the brake pedal and/or brake handle, the same wire that goes to your brake lights. This tells us that the solenoid and the wires to it are all OK. Through all of this we have made some progress, just like I mentioned above the solenoid and it's wires are all ok. We also now know even with bypassing the key switch which is what we did by using the jumper wires that the key switch is more than likely good, same results as the jumpers. Also by learning that the tail lights work it sends us in the direction of the front part of the harness and gives us a starting point. But now we've got to open her up to start finding this problem. JR
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Post by JR on Jun 28, 2013 21:13:47 GMT -5
Sorry I double posted.. didn't know the first one posted.. thought it was deleted.... OK so to recap everything.... I do NOT Have everything stripped down.. was hoping that wouldn't be the case.... so here is where we are. KEY ON---- Scooter starts,Radio on, no blinkers, no horn, (scooter has two head lights one small one big) the small one lights up, odometer on, dash lights out... KEY OFF--- Scooter off, radio off, odometer stays lit, big head light ON, small one off, push Horn speedodometer goes crazy, push blinkers, odometer goes bright and dim. Hit STARTER button ALL POWER GOES OFF.... here is a video.. just in case you haven't seen it.. shows everything OK justguy1 thanks a lot for the video, it really helped me understand more clearly what is happening to your scooter. Now I'm like you I hate stripping a scooter but in this case we have got to get to the electrical up front. We for sure have something fused/melted/arced/etc. together. I've got a idea but at this point even if I'm right you still got to open her up. Now I only got a slight glimpse of the headlight in your video but it appeared as a small bulb and not the main headlight bulb? A lot of scooters have what is called side running lights by the main headlight bulbs and a lot of times they are wired separately from the head light bulbs. If you've never stripped her I would advise taking pictures as you go and putting nuts, bolts, etc. in containers and labeling them, helps when it goes back together. Now you've got her back to original and the disconnect switch is no issue so let's move on and I'll promise you one thing I'll not give up so don't you, if need be we'll get on the phone and work this out. Take your time as you take it apart and pay close attention to the harness and look for any sign of damage or where it may have got hot. When you get her stripped holler back. JR
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Post by JR on Jun 28, 2013 20:03:26 GMT -5
justguy1 I Fully understand. But you have to take a deep breath and go with it I understand that you are flustered. The up side is you do have some very Knoalegeable people trying to help you!!! Tho some may not for pure Just to help reasons for said help. As long as you get your ride running WHO CARES!!!!! And That is My two cent's. Dave Tho some may not for pure Just to help reasons for said help.I wonder who that might be? JR
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