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Post by w650 on Jan 9, 2017 13:59:20 GMT -5
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Post by oldchopperguy on Jan 9, 2017 18:02:05 GMT -5
This IS sad.
Several years back, I test rode a Victory and loved it. I was spry and able to handle the big bikes easily then, but could not afford one. The Victory seemed to have the "grunt" of a Harley and revs of a Japanese bike... not unlike a big Desmo-head Ducati... a truly refreshing twist to the stodgy V-twins of that era. The quality seemed top-notch too.
Since introducing the new Indian brand however, it does make sense to concentrate on them. All the various wonderful Victory bikes can certainly live on using the Indian power-train and brand. It's still the same company, same engineering and reputation in an all-new rendition of the oldest marque in American motorcycle history, preceding Harley Davidson by a couple of years.
Die-hard Victory riders will mourn the loss of the brand, but the DNA will live on in the new Indians. Back in the day, the original Indian offered small V-twins, big V-twins, inline fours and later on, vertical twins. I expect as the new Indian company matures, such variety may return, and we'll se more than just the big twin and Scout models. I could easily envision a high-performance model named the Indian "Victory" to honor the parent company marque.
Ever notice how the Victory "Octane" motor looks suspiciously like engine in the Indian Scout? Hmmm... VERSATILITY in action... Wouldn't it be COOL if Polaris would put one of their red-hot snow-machine motor/tranny units in an Indian branded hot-rod scooter? There MUST be a way to make a screaming 200hp two-smoker pass emissions... Maybe? Ah, probably not... LOL!
Only time will tell if the new Indian can really compete with Harley Davidson. Things look good so far, with the Indian bikes seemingly having excellent quality, performance and looks... all a fraction of the price of a Harley.
You'll never get old-school geriatric Hog riders to switch brands, but for newer riders wanting classic bikes, Indian should be able to create their own "niche" as HD did.
I'm a loyal Harley rider from fifty years ago, and if I had the physical ability and budget, rather than switching brands, I'd likely have BOTH a Hog AND a new Indian... That being said, with arthritis and short budget, I'm mighty glad to have an old Kymco... LOL!
And, I've noticed Kymco even has some nice MOTORCYCLES in its product line... Not Hogs, or Indians for sure, and you seldom see them, but they are nice small bikes!
With long term support available, it might be a GREAT time to snag that Victory bike you've been wanting!
Ride it safe...
Leo in Texas
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Post by wheelbender6 on Jan 9, 2017 19:55:12 GMT -5
I admire the visual appeal of the Victories. They were beautiful (with a few exceptions). I think part of their problem was that they did not offer any sub-liter bikes. You need a smaller bike to bring in new and younger riders. -The other problem, in my opinion, was the pure mass of the bikes. I know a young, strong guy that injured his hip without his Victory falling. He stuck his leg out to hold up the bike in a low speed, panic stop and the stress damaged his hip. You need to be a durable guy to ride those things. Here is a nice Vegas.  |
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Post by oldchopperguy on Jan 10, 2017 21:29:03 GMT -5
I admire the visual appeal of the Victories. They were beautiful (with a few exceptions). I think part of their problem was that they did not offer any sub-liter bikes. You need a smaller bike to bring in new and younger riders. -The other problem, in my opinion, was the pure mass of the bikes. I know a young, strong guy that injured his hip without his Victory falling. He stuck his leg out to hold up the bike in a low speed, panic stop and the stress damaged his hip. You need to be a durable guy to ride those things. Here is a nice Vegas. When I got a Honda Accord, going from my old Mercury wagon which I could just walk into like my living room, I severely injured my leg just getting into the small car... Cheesh! Had to have rehab and could barely walk for three months. Fortunately, I could still ride my flat-floor scooter! It's just like sitting on a kitchen chair... even with a game leg.
Those Victory bikes are for the most part great-looking (and great V-twin performers too). To me they seem to have a lot of "Arlen Ness" DNA in their cosmetics, especially the baggers. I think Polaris should maybe keep the best few designs and re-badge them as Indian models... Names like the "Brave", "Warrior", "Tomahawk", and/or any well-known Native American tribes like "Apache" "Mohawk" etc. I sort of lean toward the "Flathead" tribe myself... A mini, or scooter named the "Papoose" might be cool, too... LOL!
Ride safe... Leo in Texas |
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Post by SylvreKat on Jan 10, 2017 23:43:01 GMT -5
I admire the visual appeal of the Victories. They were beautiful (with a few exceptions). I think part of their problem was that they did not offer any sub-liter bikes. You need a smaller bike to bring in new and younger riders. -The other problem, in my opinion, was the pure mass of the bikes. I know a young, strong guy that injured his hip without his Victory falling. He stuck his leg out to hold up the bike in a low speed, panic stop and the stress damaged his hip. You need to be a durable guy to ride those things. You mean beautiful like this one?  No worries about sub-liter there. Or pure mass. The dealer where I got Peej sold these things. I think it was almost as long as my old Taurie-wagon. Probably weighed as much. I believe it came with equipped with refrigerator and microwave oven. Plus a pull-out bed. I found a pic of some slight woman driving one when I Googled for an image to post. I don't believe it. Well, then again, I doubt the Vision could fall over, so she wouldn't need to ever be able to lift it. >'Kat |
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Post by rockynv on Jan 11, 2017 5:11:57 GMT -5
The problem is that Victory has a global problem with only 4 of their 12 models now meeting the air quality regulations in Europe which will cost too much to overcome without new engines or by dumping Indian engines into them. That on top of competing with oneself was a killer situation. Indians sell better too especially the Scout Variants which are up to something like 4 (Scout, Scout  , Scout 66 and Scout Two Tone [or something like that]) Hopefully they will not kill the Empulse electric motorcycle that they picked up from Brammo and will continue it on its own as a Polaris product. Victory's were harder for me to hold up than the Chiefs so there is that too. All told though, to me the Royal Enfield Bullet 500 is better balanced than the Scouts. I actually find a fully loaded Chief easier at a stop than the Scouts. |
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Post by w650 on Jan 11, 2017 7:19:32 GMT -5
What's saddest to me is that they failed because they didn't have the name. Nothing else. From the very beginning they were better bikes than anything Harley sold. If it said Indian on the tank they would have sold like crazy. Keep in mind that the Harley V-Rod was introduced three years after Victory was launched. It's so much hype in that market.
The Japanese produce better V-Twins but they can't give them away. The Ducati Diavel is a better V-Twin but it's no sales rocket, neither is any Moto Guzzi.
I thought from the very beginning they should have sucked up a better name than Victory. So many ancient bike companies out there that died. Pope, Flying Merkel, Thor, Marsh, Pierce, Ace....
These would have had instant heritage and panache. Victory. That lacked humility for a startup and any connection to the past. Indian already sells more bikes, with what?, a push rod two valve Chief. Hopefully the Freedom 106 motor will land in an Indian and let's see how that sells.
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Post by cyborg55 on Jan 11, 2017 9:00:48 GMT -5
Victory peaked my interest early on,,,then it waned ,,,big money heavy and eventually ugly as sin when they came out with that big bagger,,,man that thing is a toad,,,I kinda had a feeling they were in trouble about 18 months ago when the local dealer closed up,,,I chalked it up to location but in hindsight looks like they were trimming the dealers that wern't producing sales,,,I'm excited about the Indian flat tracker,,,cycle world has a nice write up about it ,,,it's almost the whole magazine,,,,and with heavy hints of them producing a road bike based on it ,,,I thought I found my "last bike" in the r80st,,,but I may have made an error,,,if they make a tracker for the road that may very well may be my "last bike",,,,
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Post by rockynv on Jan 11, 2017 12:34:49 GMT -5
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Post by w650 on Jan 11, 2017 14:53:26 GMT -5
I'm not familiar with the essence of Euro 4 but it doesn't seem to me it should be a big deal. Victorys all have the same engine and chassis. Now it might be the cost of going through it for each model so I'm betting Polaris just picked representations of each class.
The biggest problem is "how it plays in Peoria". Polaris couldn't beat Harley at their own game so they got on board the game. Now they own the "Oldest Motorcycle Company in America".
That it's been dormant since 1953 doesn't count. That it's been on the gas tanks of Italian mini bikes doesn't count. It's that Indian is as historical as Harley and Polaris is brewing up the same Kool Aid that Harley has. The posers are buying it in droves.
It's a damn shame when good engineering and quality take a back seat to "Mystique". It prevents real, forward thinking from a manufacturer. Harley is letting the Street line languish, stopped building the V-Rod and putting all its eggs in the Milwaukee Eight.
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Post by Jarlaxle on Jan 11, 2017 17:09:12 GMT -5
I admire the visual appeal of the Victories. They were beautiful (with a few exceptions). I think part of their problem was that they did not offer any sub-liter bikes. You need a smaller bike to bring in new and younger riders. -The other problem, in my opinion, was the pure mass of the bikes. I know a young, strong guy that injured his hip without his Victory falling. He stuck his leg out to hold up the bike in a low speed, panic stop and the stress damaged his hip. You need to be a durable guy to ride those things. You mean beautiful like this one? No worries about sub-liter there. Or pure mass. The dealer where I got Peej sold these things. I think it was almost as long as my old Taurie-wagon. Probably weighed as much. I believe it came with equipped with refrigerator and microwave oven. Plus a pull-out bed. I found a pic of some slight woman driving one when I Googled for an image to post. I don't believe it. Well, then again, I doubt the Vision could fall over, so she wouldn't need to ever be able to lift it. >'Kat I know a guy with one of those. His wife, all 5'3" and 120lbs of her, rides a full dress Goldwing. |
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Post by rockynv on Jan 12, 2017 4:51:15 GMT -5
I'm not familiar with the essence of Euro 4 but it doesn't seem to me it should be a big deal. Victorys all have the same engine and chassis. Now it might be the cost of going through it for each model so I'm betting Polaris just picked representations of each class. Euro4 is hitting a number of motorcycle manufacturer pretty hard and a good number of them are simply dropping the older engines such as the older V-Twins. MotoGuzzi, Ducati and BWM all were impacted to some degree and had to cull their engine lineups plus Euro4 is just the tip of the proverbial Iceburg as Euro4 was released for cars 12 years ago so in a few years motorcycles will likely have to meet the 2009 Euro5 and eventually 2014 Euro6 however by that time they will probably have Euro8 or 9 implemented for cars and light trucks which may be a Zero Emissions Standard. Euro4 added a new wrinkle besides air quality in that all motorcycles over a certain hp/displacement have to have ABS and can not make more than a certain amount of noise. |
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Post by pistonguy on Jan 15, 2017 13:34:26 GMT -5
Enjoyed the Sled's back in the day.
The ATV's we called Pilearis. the 250 was one of my top selling pistons of all time. they ate them like candy.
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Post by wheelbender6 on Jan 15, 2017 21:27:17 GMT -5
I admire the visual appeal of the Victories. They were beautiful (with a few exceptions). I think part of their problem was that they did not offer any sub-liter bikes. You need a smaller bike to bring in new and younger riders. -The other problem, in my opinion, was the pure mass of the bikes. I know a young, strong guy that injured his hip without his Victory falling. He stuck his leg out to hold up the bike in a low speed, panic stop and the stress damaged his hip. You need to be a durable guy to ride those things. You mean beautiful like this one? No worries about sub-liter there. Or pure mass. The dealer where I got Peej sold these things. I think it was almost as long as my old Taurie-wagon. Probably weighed as much. I believe it came with equipped with refrigerator and microwave oven. Plus a pull-out bed. I found a pic of some slight woman driving one when I Googled for an image to post. I don't believe it. Well, then again, I doubt the Vision could fall over, so she wouldn't need to ever be able to lift it. >'Kat No, Kat. The Vision and other cruisers were the "few exceptions". |
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Post by wheelbender6 on Jan 23, 2017 20:22:57 GMT -5
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, Scout 66 and Scout Two Tone [or something like that]) Hopefully they will not kill the Empulse electric motorcycle that they picked up from Brammo and will continue it on its own as a Polaris product.
