|
|
Post by yelloscoot on Feb 14, 2016 9:38:14 GMT -5
Yelloscoot,
My first scoot had the starter go bad the first week! On the 150 it was EASY to replace the starter. Hope it's the same with yours. EVERY scoot is going to act up SOMETIMES... Like the old story: "If it uses gasoline, tires or LIPSTICK, eventually, it's gonna give ya' trouble..." LOL!
For two years, old Minnie Mouse has been trouble-free, and yesterday she got a "runny nose"... Yup... a little puddle of antifreeze under the bottom after running on the center-stand. EEEWWW!I pulled the right-hand lower plastic, where the coolant hoses run and sure enough, there was a hose-clamp completely loose, dangling on the thinner metal pipe. It was seeping at the hose joint. The Kymco hose-clamp is WEIRD! Three pieces with actual machined-steel parts, spring-steel parts and looks "aircraft-quality". But it works sort of backwards, "pushing" the clamp together rather than pulling. Somebody assembled it wrong, and it would not fully tighten... The more you try to tighten it, the looser it got. Looks like a factory mistake, as all hoses are original. So I reassembled the over-engineered clamp and put it back on the hose... No more leaky-leaky! I just wish all fixes were this obvious and simple!You may want to patch-in any wiring you might want for driving-lights, etc. while it's apart... Saves lots of work later! You'll be glad to get Yin Yang back on the road again! Spring is almost here!Ride safe!Leo
I thought that seven weeks was bad, but one, that takes the cake. Yes, Yellow is so much easier to work on, everything is right in your face. Luckily with Yin, even without the need to do a full PDI, the starter and fuel pump are relatively easy to get to by removing a side-skirt.   I went by Car Toys and picked up some 8 gauge power cable to replace the lengthy 10 gauge that came stock. I ended up running 14 inches shorter between the battery, relay and starter than what was there. Once I popped the starter back in place, with some Blue Loctite, Yin started right up. So now, Yin, has Her Yang back.  I'm happy to hear that Minnie only had a bit of a "bug". That's seems strange that the clamp would just be hanging loose. I'd like to see a pic of that type of clamp. I Googled Images and didn't find one that seemed to work that way. I just can't wrap it around my brain as to how it could be mis-assembled.  Hopefully I can wrap up the PDI today, per the Big Guy PDI, and get Yin back together for work tomorrow. Still need to swap out the ground cables to the 8 gauge, tie up some wires, see about the headlight install, and by all means, fix the temp gauge wiring.   No connector or solder, just, taped  ....are you kidding me! When I first discovered the problem, couple of weeks ago, I didn't have much access to them and my tests didn't show power on any of the wires. But now looking at the photos I see I missed the two in the right photo....duh.  Now it's time to get back to business. No more horsing around.  UPDATE: That didn't take long to check out. I will solder and heat-shrink the connection for a lasting fix. The photo shows the point where the fan kicks in.  All is good, though, I do smell anti-freeze but don't see any drips...?  When it wasn't working, it was worse than, not even having an Idiot Light.  At least I have some peace of mind now. That's a good thing.  Loren |
|
|
|
Post by dollartwentyfive on Feb 14, 2016 11:05:49 GMT -5
All is good, though, I do smell anti-freeze but don't see any drips...? antifreeze will expand when it gets hot. if you have filled the radiator till it starts running out of the overflow, then the expanding antifreeze will force its way around the pressure cap. i was always (every day) putting a few ounces in the radiator until i figured that out. i just quite putting any in unless i was seeing the core tubes. so, unless you have a recovery tank (mine didn't), you are just wasting antifreeze by filling to overflowing. remember to use aluminum safe antifreeze, it should say that it's aluminum safe on the bottle. premixed 50/50 should work for you unless you live in siberia or antarctica. if you mix it yourself then use distilled water. all this talk about your 250 has really given me the blues. i swear, i'm addicted to two wheels. i'm amazed that more people don't ride them. |
|
|
|
Post by oldchopperguy on Feb 14, 2016 20:56:20 GMT -5
Woo-HOO!
Got your temp gauge working too! THAT will bring a lot of peace-of-mind... New starter, heavy 8-gauge wiring... Yin Yang should be "good to go"! So you won't feel alone, when I first built "Old Blue" my "animal" chopper, I did all the wiring (replacing the WWII style cloth Harley wires) with modern "good stuff"... Same gauges.
HMMM...............
A few miles from home, on her maiden run, the entire electric system went up in flames! And I mean EVERYTHING... I had to push that Hog back home (an all-afternoon job)... LOL!
I re-did everything with wire at least 2-gauges heavier than stock, and never again had a problem. Good move to use short 8-gauge on the battery.
Yeah, 8 years before the errant hose-clamp leaked is amazing! I can't get t pic because it's hidden, and I am not comfortable pulling the plastic again... It's a might aged and brittle. But the clamp is a doozy! It's a double-loop of stainless, sort of "reverse" formed at the meeting point where a machined screw passes through a machined washer, and into a machined steel tab on the other side of the meeting point. The screw tightens against the washer, pushing the steel tab, squeezing the clamp by pushing, rather than pulling it tight. Took me some time to figure out it was assembled wrong, and tightening the screw forced the clamp open, and nothing could tighten it... A simple part over-engineered to the max... Must be a GERMAN design! LOL!
Looks like some more warm weather coming... Enjoy!
Ride safe,
Leo
|
|
|
|
Post by rockynv on Feb 15, 2016 0:43:51 GMT -5
The staff at the local Aprilia Dealer recommended Engine Ice Coolant for all bikes and although it was a bit more expensive I gave it a try just because it seemed to good to be true so I wanted to see for myself and it appears to indeed transfer heat better than most traditional coolants just like the techs said and is non-toxic too. Cooling fan does not need to run as long at stop lights and rarely needs to come on when moving despite our 115+ degree roadway temps during the 8 months of summer here in Sunny Tampa Bay.
Drain the old coolant, refill with a mix of distilled water/white vinegar, flush with distilled water, drain completely (I use a shop vac), refill with Engine Ice and bleed/burp the system.
Engine now runs at low mid of normal range instead of at the cuspice of needing the cooling fan to run.
Others add bigger cooling fans or multiple fans with some modifying the system so they come on earlier or stay on all the time however with the Engine Ice this probably won't be needed since it is that much more efficient a coolant.
|
|
|
|
Post by yelloscoot on Feb 18, 2016 22:42:43 GMT -5
Thank you for your latest posts. It's been a busy week with work and working on the PDI. Go to work, come home and get to work until it's time for bed. Then just too tired to get online for very long. Took Yin down to the frame and motor to get a good look at everything she had to hide.    Well, the deed is done and I'm happy to say there're no extra parts left in the zip-lock baggies. Everything is tight and back in it's place. The vacuum and fuel lines have been replaced, the connections checked and sealed across the clips with silicone and the battery compartment is all nice and tidy.     I haven't replaced the tank to pump fuel line yet because of a full tank of gas making a dangerous mess. Although, I think I have that part figured out now (after it's all back together), but its easy to get to later.  Thanks dollartwentyfive . Yes, I do have the recovery tank and it does have anti-freeze in it about where should be. Everything is looking good so far. I hope you can get a new motor from Scrappy's. That should lift your spirits. oldchopperguy Yikes, that must have been devastating. I just can't imagine what it was like to work with cloth insulated wiring. That was a little before my time just by a couple decades.  I'm glad you got your over-engineered clamp figured out and I'm really surprised it lasted eight years the way it was. Yes rockynv , I had seen your post earlier in this thread: I did check on it to hopefully find it locally, but, with no luck. Do you have any idea if it can be diluted just a little, just in case a half gallon is not quite enough? At an average of about $21/half gal. delivered,it is a bit pricey. But I would like to get some either way. Texas can be brutal in the summer. I also had the chance to get the LED headlights installed. I had a question about the AC headlights and they wrote me back: So, the install went well and they are definitely much brighter. Although, they do have a slight flicker, Opt7 has a "Flux Capacitor" for free to fix the problem. I'm waiting for a reply on this issue, and/or, I already have an H4 Relay Harness on the way just in case I need to go to the battery.   While I was in there I remembered oldchopperguy 's suggestion about running power to the front for future installs requiring 12v. I installed some split-loom with yellow para-cord inside to "pull power" (pun intended) wire though if needed.  And to finish off the night, I used JR 's suggestion with the thin rubber washers to reinstall the Givi. That worked like a charm. Not a squeak one to complain about. After tightening a good two dozen nuts and bolts, adding a several dozen Zip-Ties and replacing a few missing screws, Yin feels very solid now. Now it's gaining the trust issue of the new starter. But that will fade into the past.Thanks to All,  Loren, tired and weary, but ready to ride. |
|
|
|
Post by rockynv on Feb 19, 2016 1:29:20 GMT -5
|
|
|
|
Post by JR on Feb 19, 2016 7:36:59 GMT -5
yelloscoot It's common to smell antifreeze for a little bit after all the draining/flushing. sometimes a little drop or two will hit the engine when filling etc. and it'll soon burn off and go away. If you continue to smell antifreeze after riding a bit then you indeed need to look for the reason. The temp gauge reading in your picture is right on to the T and if you did the air removal and have the overflow tank at the right level you're good to go. I've never used the what I call anti-freeze additives gimmicks but I have heard others say they work well. While rockynv is telling you that road temps in Florida hit 115F we both know in Texas they are hotter, I've arrived in Dallas before at 5 pm and the temp still be 106F and with the surrounding concrete and asphalt the road temp I'm sure was even hotter. From the times I've been in Florida when it is hot there is always a wind where in Texas one has the heat and humidity generally with no wind whatsoever. Last year in the softball World series in Orlando it July it rained every day, sometimes maybe not even 5 minutes but people there told me this happens daily which helps bring the temps down. We both know sometimes in Texas and Arkansas it's over 100F by 10:00 am in July and common to not rain for 3 months in the summer, heck right now we are under a burn ban in Feb! All said with just good quality 50/50 Prestone in my scooter in Dallas going from red light to red light my fan cycled on and off and kept the scooter cool throughout the ride. The last time I rode to Dallas even with me being a summer person and having a good tan my arms blistered on that ride. I wore a jacket coming home to keep from having more issues from the heat. Some people swear by this old time favorite: www.redlineoil.com/product.aspx?pid=74&pcid=10If I was to add it I would take a bulb type suction syphon, remove the radiator cap, syphon out the exact amount of coolant in the radiator as in the water wetter bottle, then pour the water wetter in so that the radiator would be full and I wouldn't have to burp the system again, fire it up and let it circulate to mix well. Glad you found the wire problems and put the rubber washers on, this is why the thing called PDI applies so much, now when you put it back together you'll be riding instead of fixing. JR
|
|
|
|
Post by oldchopperguy on Feb 19, 2016 14:48:27 GMT -5
Woo-HOO!
You HAVE been working on Yin Yang... And then some! Nice neat work though! Have another bone!You ought to have the scoot "good to go" now! Enjoy this 80-degree weather!!!  I absolutely DETEST removing scooter plastics... LOL! But your pix DO encourage me to get old "Minnie Mouse's" nose off and mess with my own lights. TOO MANY unpainted left-turn curbs to ride straight into, all over in my hood (my neighbor just TOTALLED his nice Jeep on one...) He wiped out the entire left underside, tranny, cracked the engine block, etc... So some added light on the subject is MORE than welcome... Oh, and of course, there's the infamous "illuminated swan" ornament! ENJOY this SUNSHINE! And, RIDE SAFE!Leo
|
|
|
|
Post by yelloscoot on Feb 19, 2016 23:23:44 GMT -5
Thanks rockynv and JR . I went ahead and opted for the Water Wetter... 1) Autozone carries it and they are only a mile away. 2) Price: $10, easy to do and enough to do six radiators, and most importantly..., 3) I don't feel like removing plastics and re-burping the whole system again. Just call me lazy.  JR Yes, now that you mention it, I haven't smelled it lately. The only thing I smell, if I have it locked up in the garage, is the fresh new rubber of the Avons. oldchopperguy Yes to that too. Getting the front cowling back on was a PITA. I messed with it for quite some time to get things all lined back up. Granted this was the first time on Yin. Maybe next time will be better, though, I don't want to make a habit of pulling it off. And a question for All:As I mentioned in my last post, the new LED headlights flicker and dim (still waiting for Opt7 to contact me). I also noticed this morning that the gauge lights do the same as the lights. I checked for continuity of ground from (-) battery terminal to frame(main ground for all, photo above) to motor. The meter only reads 0.2 ohms between (-) terminal to motor, which, seems good to me. Is there something I may have done during the PDI, or maybe, a second grounding spot somewhere that I've overlooked?
I have the front access panel off tonight and will be checking more into it tomorrow. I'm just trying to rule out my work as to the cause of the flicker. Happens from idle to cruising speeds, smooth or bumpy roads, acceleration to deceleration and no real pattern that I can see. Its very erratic and very noticeable.  Hopefully Opt7 will get back to me soon about their Flux-Cpacitor fix. Thanks and good night, Loren |
|
|
|
Post by oldchopperguy on Feb 20, 2016 1:11:19 GMT -5
I'm absolutely NO expert here... But my LED lights acted similarly when connected to AC. That's why I did all the messing around to install a bridge-rectifier. That cured the flickering, but I can't recall if the other incandescent lights also flickered. Now, do your incandescent filament bulbs also flicker? If so, then I would think there's a problem. If the incandescent bulbs do NOT flicker, then it's most likely the LED's not liking AC current. I don't know if the LED's flickering could also affect the incandescent bulbs in the tail light, instruments, etc. I really hope your Opt7 will cure the problem. This weather is too good to miss! Although it's supposed to get back to February weather again next week...  I still hate taking off plastics... LOLOLOL! On a scoot as old as Minnie, they're a might BRITTLE and somewhat "crunchy-breaky"!Ride safe,Leo
|
|
|
|
Post by JR on Feb 20, 2016 6:17:58 GMT -5
yelloscoot I didn't pay attention to the bulbs you used in your headlights so what are they? LED headlight bulbs? flickering indicates a loose wire or connection, did you check out the dimmer switch connecting plug well and all the grounds to the lights. The headlights and instrument lights are on the same circuit so they have the same problem. Does this scooter have a fuse box? if so they are notorious for bad connections, pull it out and check each fuse holder, people have been known to replace them with a better quality one. JR
|
|
|
|
Post by yelloscoot on Feb 20, 2016 7:32:52 GMT -5
I'm absolutely NO expert here... But my LED lights acted similarly when connected to AC. That's why I did all the messing around to install a bridge-rectifier. That cured the flickering, but I can't recall if the other incandescent lights also flickered. Now, do your incandescent filament bulbs also flicker? If so, then I would think there's a problem. If the incandescent bulbs do NOT flicker, then it's most likely the LED's not liking AC current. I don't know if the LED's flickering could also affect the incandescent bulbs in the tail light, instruments, etc. I really hope your Opt7 will cure the problem. . It's only the headlights and the gauges , which are on the AC system. The gauges, though, are incandescent. When I installed the HID's on Yellow, I made a relay setup and ran a separate switch to turn them on/off. I did it that way just in case there may have been a charging problem, which turned out, there wasn't. Come to find out, shortly before getting Yin, Yellow has a 12-pole stator providing a healthy charge.I really want to keep away from adding a separate switch and keep it as simple as possible [KISS]. But I have a tendency to jump into stuff and make it as technically difficult as it can possibly get. I'm a big fan of electronic gadgetry from my years of automotive 12v. installation work. But, the automotive industry doesn't use AC systems, at least not before 2001. Its been a while for me, but, I can usually figure out DC issues. JR , yes, they are LED with a small Micro-Driver good for AC/DC systems. They're the same kit that Spunn used on his Burgman LED Install. The fuse box is under the seat next to the battery and everything checks out just fine there I think. I did have to disconnect the harness for the fuse box to remove the seat bucket and the clip is sealed now with silicone. I do have another 4-bay fuse box, but, its a little too big to mount all nice and pretty anywhere.  I will check the fuses here in a little bit once I've had a couple more pots of coffee and the sun is up. UPDATE: Yes, the fuses are in good condition.On the installation instructions there is a note about the flickering: I'm still waiting for a reply from them. They've been pretty good about getting back in touch in a timely manner. I have also ordered a H4 Relay Wiring Harness just in case, but, not due to arrive for 5 more days. I like to have extra supplies on-hand even if they sit around for a while.
One thing I did do, during the PDI, was sand the paint down to bare metal where the grounds all come together. That's about the only thing I can think of now that could be much different from original besides the new ground cables and terminals. That's all I can think of for now...time for another pot of coffee. Thanks Guys. Loren |
|
|
|
Post by oldchopperguy on Feb 20, 2016 17:50:30 GMT -5
Yelloscoot,
Sounds like the flickering IS related to the AC system. LED's do NOT like AC...
Hopefully, the Opt7 FluxCapacitors will solve your problems. If not, you can still use all your factory headlight switches by using the bridge-rectifier. When I used that on my 150, it DID drop the 12 volts AC to about 10 volts DC but that was still plenty of juice for the LED headlight.
Worst-case scenario: Would it be feasible to rewire the factory headlight switch off the same DC source as your taillights? Or, connect the factory headlight switch directly off the battery, rather than the AC circuit? That would avoid using AC altogether for the lights.
I really do NOT understand why the factory sets up SOME of the lighting off AC rather than simply using the DC current for all lights. It may have something to do with proper battery-charging... On my old Kymco, all the lights are DC and EVERYTHING comes on when the ignition is turned on... No light switches at all, except for high-beam and blinkers.
At first, I didn't like that, but thought it might be a good "low-battery-alert" if the headlights dimmed some when engaging the starter... but I've had the battery get low enough that the motor would barely turn over and the lights STILL don't dim... Go figger... LOL!
Thankfully, the old 250 WILL start if it turns over AT ALL.
Whether the FluxCapacitors work or not, getting DC juice to the factory light-switches should be a workable solution.
Ride safe!
Leo
|
|
|
|
Post by yelloscoot on Feb 22, 2016 22:24:12 GMT -5
Yelloscoot,Sounds like the flickering IS related to the AC system. LED's do NOT like AC...Hopefully, the Opt7 FluxCapacitors will solve your problems. If not, you can still use all your factory headlight switches by using the bridge-rectifier. When I used that on my 150, it DID drop the 12 volts AC to about 10 volts DC but that was still plenty of juice for the LED headlight. Worst-case scenario: Would it be feasible to rewire the factory headlight switch off the same DC source as your taillights? Or, connect the factory headlight switch directly off the battery, rather than the AC circuit? That would avoid using AC altogether for the lights. I really do NOT understand why the factory sets up SOME of the lighting off AC rather than simply using the DC current for all lights. It may have something to do with proper battery-charging... On my old Kymco, all the lights are DC and EVERYTHING comes on when the ignition is turned on... No light switches at all, except for high-beam and blinkers. Thanks oldchopperguy , Leo. When I was putting Yin back together last week, I heard a pop or something, when I was putting the rear side panels back on. Nothing electrical, just that something had moved,...right where the R/R is located.   Thinking the flickering was maybe caused by the "pop", causing low voltage or a bad ground, I started checking with my meter. Battery was showing 12.25 volts while running and 12.5 with the motor off. That was my first indication of a problem with the charging and AC system. So I dug around up in there with a mirror and a pick, checked some wires, replaced a tight zip-tie with a looser one, twisted a bullet connector, danced a jig and hoped for the best. Well the dancing probably is what did the trick, because the voltage, jumped to 14.3 volts while running and 12.75 with the motor off. Okay, it probably wasn't the dancing. It was probably the yellow wire with the bullet connectors. I had a chance to take a short ride tonight and the flickering, on low at idle, is almost gone. High beam at idle is more of a steady strobe now. While both Hi/Lo are much better while riding. This is at least a step in the right direction. Opt7 has contacted me and will send a pair of the FluxCapacitors. Possibly here by the weekend. They just plug right into the wiring harness and I have them mounted right up front. So it's just a matter of taking off the access panel below the Givi. I feel confident that the FluxCapacitors will make the installation complete.   After all, if they worked for Doc on his Delorean, then they should work on a Chinese Scooter.  Loren |
|
|
|
Post by JR on Feb 23, 2016 13:20:16 GMT -5
|
|
....are you kidding me! When I first discovered the problem, couple of weeks ago, I didn't have much access to them and my tests didn't show power on any of the wires. But now looking at the photos I see I missed the two in the right photo....duh. 
At least I have some peace of mind now. That's a good thing. 
