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Post by spandi on Feb 10, 2016 2:19:16 GMT -5
I use a Pirelli GTS in the back, and an Avon "Viper-strike" up front. As Avon makes a taller front tire. BTW, Leo, can you post the eBay seller you GOT the LED lights from? Thanks!
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Post by yelloscoot on Feb 11, 2016 18:20:04 GMT -5
dollartwentyfive oldchopperguy JR Ran into my first major setback today. On my home from work this afternoon and stopped at Ace to pick up the rubber washers for the Givi. Then stopped again about a half mile from home for some smokes. While leaving (that was the plan) and turning the ignition ON, I heard the fan kick in and the starter just bumped. That was it. After trying a few more times all I was hearing was the relay clicking under the seat. I checked the fuses,...they're in good shape. So I pushed her home.  Once home and coffee in hand  , I checked the voltage across the battery terminals and also the hot side of the relay. (12.7 v). Tried jumping the relay terminals and got nothing but a good spark. Then I checked from battery ground to starter and reading 4.5-5 volts. The positive "cables" from the battery to the relay and relay to the starter get very warm and I hear, I think, a light "sizzle" sound when pressing the start button to test the voltage. My best " guesstimation" is the starter and Scrappy Dog has this: CF/CN 250 starter motor. I haven't had any problems, that I'm aware of, with the starter. Even on cold 30 degree mornings. I have noticed that my brake lights (LEDs) dim out slightly or all the way when I'm starting up in the dark mornings though.  Which is then sending a spike to my brake light flasher and burning it out. Any ideas would be appreciated.  Loren, Hot and Tired from pushing a 250, in what feels like summer.
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Post by oldchopperguy on Feb 11, 2016 20:52:48 GMT -5
Bummer!
Sounds like your starter RELAY may be bad, since you have voltage to the hot side of the relay. You need someone with more knowledge than me here... C'mon all you electric gurus... We need your advice!
This shouldn't be too hard to diagnose.
We're pullin' for ya!
Leo
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Post by yelloscoot on Feb 11, 2016 21:06:29 GMT -5
Thanks Leo, oldchopperguy . I looked online earlier for a relay at Autozone,... maybe just a universal relay to check it out. Something like this : Duralast/Relay - Starter.What gets me is the wire, going to the starter, also gets hot...?? So everything between the battery and starter is overheating, but, the in-line fuse is obviously still good. That fuse holder is the cheapo plastic clam-shell with the glass fuse. I need to replace all that wiring anyway along with the holder. I feel it is longer than it needs to be and quite flimsy for power wire.  Loren |
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Post by oldchopperguy on Feb 11, 2016 21:26:51 GMT -5
Hmmm...
I'd think the universal relay should work. Any 12v starter takes some heavy amperage, so an automotive relay should work.
The wire to the starter getting hot concerns me though. Could you use a heavy-gauge wire and jump directly from the battery to the starter, bypassing the relay? Just a second of that should determine it the starter will respond to battery voltage and turn over. If you try that, do ONLY for a second or two incase the starter IS shorted out. There's a LOT of amps there.... LOL!
Again, I'm on shaky ground here, not being expert with the electrics. Be careful, and don't let a dead-short remain connected more than a second or so. Things get HOT fast!
I REALLY wish these had kick-starters!
Leo
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Post by yelloscoot on Feb 11, 2016 21:39:49 GMT -5
Hmmm... I'd think the universal relay should work. Any 12v starter takes some heavy amperage, so an automotive relay should work. The wire to the starter getting hot concerns me though. Could you use a heavy-gauge wire and jump directly from the battery to the starter, bypassing the relay? Just a second of that should determine it the starter will respond to battery voltage and turn over. If you try that, do ONLY for a second or two incase the starter IS shorted out. There's a LOT of amps there.... LOL! Again, I'm on shaky ground here, not being expert with the electrics. Be careful, and don't let a dead-short remain connected more than a second or so. Things get HOT fast! I REALLY wish these had kick-starters! Leo Yes Leo, they do get hot fast. I'm surprised the fuse hasn't blown. I was just looking around and found this: Such a simple device. Unless I hear of a definite failure of the starter, then, this will be first on my things-to-check after work. I'll have to borrow my Dad's Lincoln for work tomorrow. Not a bad trade off, but, I would much rather be riding.  EDIT:
I remember thinking about kick starting it....LOL. No can do. Jeeeesh. After watching the video, and having time to ponder it, something came to mind. That if the contacts are bad inside the relay, that might explain, the lower voltage (4.5v) measured on the starter side and starter. That there is a high resistance in the contacts if they are burned out.. Loren |
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Post by oldchopperguy on Feb 11, 2016 22:23:28 GMT -5
You'll get it fixed. And, a Lincoln ain't a bad ride!
I still wish these scoots had kick-starters... LOL!
Leo
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Post by dollartwentyfive on Feb 11, 2016 22:25:25 GMT -5
Then I checked from battery ground to starter and reading 4.5-5 volts. The positive "cables" from the battery to the relay and relay to the starter get very warm and I hear, I think, a light "sizzle" sound when pressing the start button to test the voltage. yes, i suppose you would be hearing something frying when dropping that many volts. go through the start circuit inch by inch. start with the big red wire at the positive battery post. inspect the connector on the wire, look for greenish corrosion where the wire is crimped to the connector. next, inspect the connection surfaces, they should be clean and dry. inspect and clean each connection in the start circuit in this manner. the start circuit: positive battery post. one connection on solenoid. the other connection on solenoid. the starter terminal. one of the starter mounting screws where the ground is connected. the battery negative post. inspect and clean each of theses connections. if there is corrosion on the wire where the connector is crimped, the get a new wire. also make sure these are heavy gauge wires and as short as possible. also make sure these are single pieces, not twisted together and taped |
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Post by oldchopperguy on Feb 12, 2016 14:02:48 GMT -5
I use a Pirelli GTS in the back, and an Avon "Viper-strike" up front. As Avon makes a taller front tire. BTW, Leo, can you post the eBay seller you GOT the LED lights from? Thanks! I don't have the seller listing (probably not even around anymore... LOL!) but this light is very popular. I think you can find them on eBay by just searching under 12V LED, or LED driving lights. Many sellers have them.
They are INCREDIBLY bright... 30 watts each, but similar in performance to the 1000 watt aircraft landing lights we used in the sixties! Those things required a separate battery in the trunk... A pair of 30W lights should be OK with a scooter charging system, if used only at night... No need to run them except when needed.
I'll look on eBay and see if I can find some again.
Ride safe!
Leo
UPDATE: I just checked eBay and these lights are NOT shown listed at all. Must be "out of style". However, search under "LED driving lights" or "off road" and you'll find a lot of choices. The 27 watt 9-LED round off-road spot is a good one. I had one on my old 150 and it was impressive!
LED's run best on DC current, and my old 150 had AC power to the headlights. I actually set up a bridge-rectifier to convert to DC...
Now looking back, I'd just hook directly to the battery with a switch... MUCH simpler! I went through all this so I could have the LED as my high-beam, hooked up to factory wiring.
I don't know what happened to the small single-LED lights, but if you don't mind a full-size small headlight size, the 9-LED spots are swell!
Hope this may help,
Leo
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Post by spandi on Feb 12, 2016 19:27:31 GMT -5
Thanks much Leo!
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Post by oldchopperguy on Feb 12, 2016 21:39:52 GMT -5
You're MOST welcome!
I'm all for better lights on scooters. Here's the same one I had EXCEPT in the SPOT version. Mine was the FLOOD model. They come in 30-degree spot, and 60-degree flood models.
www.ebay.com/itm/291381741336?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
This listing is for a pair, but I paid more for one... LOL! They've gotten cheaper. You could use both (if your system can handle 60 watts) or sell one, or give it to a pal... Or save it for later...
The flood is a great headlight, but the spot model keeps the beam more in your lane, and really reaches out. When directed down enough to not blind oncoming drivers, it lights the road like daylight for maybe 40 yards or so! The bezel is about 5" in diameter, so it's not huge, but still full "headlight" size. They're a little bit heavy, so solid mounting is a must.
If you can find a place to mount it, it will give you serious light!
If you go with an LED light (or lights) and your scoot has AC headlights, I'd just hook up to the battery. If your scoot has DC headlights (you can usually tell because they will light with the engine not running) you can hook up into factory wiring.
If you have AC lights, and want to go through all the BS I did to use factory light switches, I may still have the bridge-rectifier around somewhere... No promises... LOL! But if so, I can send it to you. Personally, I'd go with direct connection to the battery with a separate switch... Less hassle... Yup!
Ride safe,
Leo
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Post by yelloscoot on Feb 12, 2016 22:09:34 GMT -5
oldchopperguy Leo, those are some great looking lights you have for Minnie.  If the links photos are true to life, then, they should really open up Minnie's eyes with the light of day. It's the dark neighborhood streets that get me sometimes. I don't think you'll have any problem finding your way with those burning though the darkest of nights. Loren
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Post by yelloscoot on Feb 12, 2016 23:04:19 GMT -5
oldchopperguy dollartwentyfive Okay, the verdict is in. I, the Jury, find the accused Starter,....Guilty as charged. Well this little set-back has prompted me to get going on the much needed, and dreaded, PDI. I took a half day off work and got started with the removal of all the panels.  Once everything was off (now the hump too), I got started checking the resistance of the relay and starter cable with my meter. They both checked out fine, so, I pulled the starter. I don't know what caused it but the gear shaft is locked up tight. My "dealership" has one in stock so I'll swing by and get it in the morning.  The current vacuum and fuel lines show EPA and SAE markings, but, made in China. I have purchased lines in the past from Autozone that are made in the U.S.. The drive belt that it came with is a Gates Powerlink, so I think I'm good there.  I'm really looking forward to spending a few hours going over the bike to get the PDI completed and have piece of mind. Leo, you mentioned the AC powered headlights and going to the battery. I'm planning on getting the LED Headlights in while it's all apart. I should probably contact the seller to get a little info before proceeding too far. The HIDs I have on Yellow are run through a separate switch to the battery. But, I want YinYang to run with the factory switch. Anyway, I'll see what happens tomorrow. Loren
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Post by dollartwentyfive on Feb 12, 2016 23:49:08 GMT -5
i envy you yelloscoot.
my scoot is sitting out back with an unknown engine problem, i'm not sure what's wrong with it.
it's been probably 2 years since that engine turned over.
i've been thinking about another engine for it and using the old one for parts.
scrappy sells the complete engine for around 1000 bucks, but i just can't seem to scrape up the money for it.
anyway, make sure you do a thorough job with the electrical part of your PDI, almost all of my no start situations was electrical in nature.
if your engine is the genuine cfmoto, then the mechanical parts are going to be almost the best you can get.
for example, the clutch shoes in my ride showed almost no wear after 10,000 miles.
the bearings are japanese quality.
in any event, you are going to like this 250 because these engines were designed from the ground up to be high revving engines.
may the wind always be at your back and you have clear horizons.
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Post by oldchopperguy on Feb 13, 2016 13:07:52 GMT -5
Yelloscoot,
My first scoot had the starter go bad the first week! On the 150 it was EASY to replace the starter. Hope it's the same with yours.
EVERY scoot is going to act up SOMETIMES... Like the old story: "If it uses gasoline, tires or LIPSTICK, eventually, it's gonna give ya' trouble..." LOL!
For two years, old Minnie Mouse has been trouble-free, and yesterday she got a "runny nose"... Yup... a little puddle of antifreeze under the bottom after running on the center-stand. EEEWWW!
I pulled the right-hand lower plastic, where the coolant hoses run and sure enough, there was a hose-clamp completely loose, dangling on the thinner metal pipe. It was seeping at the hose joint.
The Kymco hose-clamp is WEIRD! Three pieces with actual machined-steel parts, spring-steel parts and looks "aircraft-quality". But it works sort of backwards, "pushing" the clamp together rather than pulling. Somebody assembled it wrong, and it would not fully tighten... The more you try to tighten it, the looser it got. Looks like a factory mistake, as all hoses are original.
So I reassembled the over-engineered clamp and put it back on the hose... No more leaky-leaky!
I just wish all fixes were this obvious and simple!
You may want to patch-in any wiring you might want for driving-lights, etc. while it's apart... Saves lots of work later!
You'll be glad to get Yin Yang back on the road again! Spring is almost here!
Ride safe!
Leo
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