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Post by oldchopperguy on Dec 17, 2015 23:19:46 GMT -5
Well, guyz and galz,
I finally proved (at least to my nasty self...) that small wheels are absolutely "OK" at highway speed... to my satisfaction anyway...  The VESPA guys were right all along...
A few days ago, it got to a nice 65 degrees, and I ran some errands on my old 250 Kymco "Minnie Mouse". It was rush hour on highway 121 with all traffic doing their best impersonation of "Mad Max" running from "Humongous" and his crew...
Cresting a small hill, I suddenly found myself on a long, L-O-N-G smooth downhill grade of about 2%... So, I snake-danced across 6 lanes into the domain of the big dogs. OOOHHH... That SWEET downhill experience!
Full throttle, all 19 ponies stretching their legs, those little 12-inchers turning 6K rpm+... a sedate 8,500 rpm on that weird bar-graph tach, and the old digital speedo began its climb toward the "impossible"... 65, 70, 75, 80 (normal WOT on the flat) then  ,  ,  and finally 99... (an actual 96 mph)... Even pushing that big old windshield, the mouse was really "hauling the mail"! But I ran out of downhill before I could coax Minnie to "do the dime". Probably never will. Oh well, the shop manual lists her top-speed as 70 mph. Fooey!
I suppose getting a well-worn 8-year-old, carbureted 250 over is a pretty sweet Christmas present, even if it DID take a long downhill run... LOL
I backed off on the throttle a tad, the variator did its thing, and the revs slowed to 7,500, and the speedo held strong and steady at ... an actual 92 mph (the handy max speed rating of the little 12" Shinko up front, and the Michelin out back).
I settled back in the seat and actually RELAXED while keeping up with the fast-lane guys for two miles! What a treat! I was only passed by a crotch-rocket, a soccer-mom in a big SUV and one rattle-trap 1960's pickup truck, all doing WAY over 100 mph... The ride was rock-steady, smooth as glass and the + "cruise" was as nice as any bike could offer.
All good things come to an end, and so did the 2% grade... Minnie Mouse hit the level road, and slowed to 80 or so. Honking horns and screeching brakes behind me, and vehicles blasting by on the shoulder, giving me my Christmas birdie reminded me to get the heck back in the slow lane where I belong...
But... I DID learn that 12" wheels shod with good P-rated tires, and well-balanced are just fine up to any speed one might want to run a scooter at... AND, I learned that a mile of downhill grade is as good as an extra 20 hp... LOLOLOL!
Come next spring, I've just GOTTA switch to heavy sliders... Even a few more mph are always welcome!
Ride safe, and enjoy those small-wheel scooters as fast as they will go!
Leo (back to TOO COLD to enjoy riding) in Texas |
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Post by urbanmadness on Dec 18, 2015 0:06:03 GMT -5
I don't even ride the wing that fast....  |
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Post by ricardoguitars on Dec 18, 2015 0:33:22 GMT -5
Sweet!!! Nothing like smoking cagers with just a few CCs under the seat, and a gas tank filled with spare change, lol. I have reached 92kmph (GPS) on my BBKed 125cc at 8k rpms, after that it feels like the tires loose all the traction and the suspension becomes useless, almost like levitating down the road |
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Post by SylvreKat on Dec 18, 2015 9:29:50 GMT -5
I don't even ride the wing that fast.... Never mind your 'wing, I don't even ride the car that fast!  >'Kat |
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Post by rockynv on Dec 18, 2015 13:46:19 GMT -5
Sweet!!! Nothing like smoking cagers with just a few CCs under the seat, and a gas tank filled with spare change, lol. I have reached 92kmph (GPS) on my BBKed 125cc at 8k rpms, after that it feels like the tires loose all the traction and the suspension becomes useless, almost like levitating down the road There is a certain magic to passing a Bugatti Veteron at Interstate speeds on a scooter. Reactions from someone who spent that much on a Bugatti when they get passed by a scooter can range from humiliation to utter disbelief and unfortunately at time totaly enraged. |
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Post by ricardoguitars on Dec 18, 2015 14:42:43 GMT -5
Sweet!!! Nothing like smoking cagers with just a few CCs under the seat, and a gas tank filled with spare change, lol. I have reached 92kmph (GPS) on my BBKed 125cc at 8k rpms, after that it feels like the tires loose all the traction and the suspension becomes useless, almost like levitating down the road There is a certain magic to passing a Bugatti Veteron at Interstate speeds on a scooter. Reactions from someone who spent that much on a Bugatti when they get passed by a scooter can range from humiliation to utter disbelief and unfortunately at time totaly enraged. I was once on the freeway on the toll booth, I had a soccer mom in a SUV behind me honking the horn at me when I was putting my gloves back on (I have to take them off to be able to take the coins out of my pocket to pay the toll), after leaving the toll booth the soccer mom tried to take over, I squeezed the throttle an she wasn't able to take over, then I kept accelerating and so she did trying to take over until we reached traffic speed, then we reached a traffic jam on a intersection, she had to stop and I filtered my way out off the traffic jam (filtering is allowed here), but not before I honked back at her and waved goodbye.  Some cagers fail to understand that no matter how much horsepower you have under the hood, on a city traffic environment it is useless against two wheels.  |
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Post by pistonguy on Dec 18, 2015 16:22:27 GMT -5
Well, guyz and galz,
I finally proved (at least to my nasty self...) that small wheels are absolutely "OK" at highway speed... to my satisfaction anyway... The VESPA guys were right all along...
A few days ago, it got to a nice 65 degrees, and I ran some errands on my old 250 Kymco "Minnie Mouse". It was rush hour on highway 121 with all traffic doing their best impersonation of "Mad Max" running from "Humongous" and his crew...
Cresting a small hill, I suddenly found myself on a long, L-O-N-G smooth downhill grade of about 2%... So, I snake-danced across 6 lanes into the domain of the big dogs. OOOHHH... That SWEET downhill experience!
Full throttle, all 19 ponies stretching their legs, those little 12-inchers turning 6K rpm+... a sedate 8,500 rpm on that weird bar-graph tach, and the old digital speedo began its climb toward the "impossible"... 65, 70, 75, 80 (normal WOT on the flat) then , , and finally 99... (an actual 96 mph)... Even pushing that big old windshield, the mouse was really "hauling the mail"! But I ran out of downhill before I could coax Minnie to "do the dime". Probably never will. Oh well, the shop manual lists her top-speed as 70 mph. Fooey!
I suppose getting a well-worn 8-year-old, carbureted 250 over is a pretty sweet Christmas present, even if it DID take a long downhill run... LOL
I backed off on the throttle a tad, the variator did its thing, and the revs slowed to 7,500, and the speedo held strong and steady at ... an actual 92 mph (the handy max speed rating of the little 12" Shinko up front, and the Michelin out back).
I settled back in the seat and actually RELAXED while keeping up with the fast-lane guys for two miles! What a treat! I was only passed by a crotch-rocket, a soccer-mom in a big SUV and one rattle-trap 1960's pickup truck, all doing WAY over 100 mph... The ride was rock-steady, smooth as glass and the + "cruise" was as nice as any bike could offer.
All good things come to an end, and so did the 2% grade... Minnie Mouse hit the level road, and slowed to 80 or so. Honking horns and screeching brakes behind me, and vehicles blasting by on the shoulder, giving me my Christmas birdie reminded me to get the heck back in the slow lane where I belong...
But... I DID learn that 12" wheels shod with good P-rated tires, and well-balanced are just fine up to any speed one might want to run a scooter at... AND, I learned that a mile of downhill grade is as good as an extra 20 hp... LOLOLOL!
Come next spring, I've just GOTTA switch to heavy sliders... Even a few more mph are always welcome!
Ride safe, and enjoy those small-wheel scooters as fast as they will go!
Leo (back to TOO COLD to enjoy riding) in Texas The 121 at rush hour is Gnarly to say the least. ya got some Nads Chopper |
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Post by spandi on Dec 18, 2015 17:49:58 GMT -5
Rats, one mph short of doing "The Ton"  |
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Post by oldchopperguy on Dec 19, 2015 0:55:38 GMT -5
Rats, one mph short of doing "The Ton"
Yeah, but I realize a long downhill run is totally "cheating"... LOL! It was just SO much fun to keep up with the fast-lane traffic. And, I was extremely pleased to find the little 12-inch tires were as solid and smooth at their maximum speed-rating, as any old 900 pound Harley I ever had.
The control and overall ride at + says a LOT for the engineering of the early "first generation" Kymco 250's. The frame geometry, stiffness and lack of shimmy and decent braking is on a par with many mid-sized motorcycles. Of course, even by the shop manual, the Grandvista is only supposed to do 70 mph max. Mine's got an old 1-tooth up final drive gear which gives a couple of extra mph. It's nice they built in a little extra handling "safety margin" even at higher potential speeds.
The relatively small Grandvista (and the even smaller but identically-powered "Bet & Win") quickly lost favor to the long and heavy maxi-scooters before Kymco could offer them with 30 or 40 hp fuel-injected engines. Too bad! Wish they had done so.
Even though "the Mouse" is limited to a realistic cruise (up and downhill, headwinds, etc.) of less than 75 mph, after two riding seasons I'm liking her more and more... OK, so I'm easy to please...
For any scooter rider who is in love with the "standard-issue" Chinese 150's, but wants more serious speed and handling in a similar size ride... A used, simple, outdated and nowadays VERY affordable Kymco Grandvista or Bet & Win 250 would be the ideal low-budget upsize... Sorta like a WAY hopped-up 150 with modest motorcycle handling! If you can find one, an old "Bet & Win" can be had for around $1,000. A LOT of scooter for the bucks, and they last 4-ever!
Now, if I can just find a route that's downhill both ways...
Ride safe!
Leo in Texas
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Post by oldchopperguy on Dec 19, 2015 1:14:19 GMT -5
The 121 at rush hour is Gnarly to say the least. ya got some Nads Chopper
Pistonguy...
I'm afraid my nads are a little old and not so macho these days... LOL! The handling of the old Mouse made it an enjoyable ride, rather than "white-knuckles"... LOLOL! I felt like the snail hitching a piggyback ride on the turtle... "WHEEEE!"
If you haven't seen "Minnie Mouse" it's undoubtedly the fishtail-exhaust that does the trick!
She's a great old ride!
Ride safe!
Leo
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Post by oldchopperguy on Dec 19, 2015 1:35:06 GMT -5
ricardoguitars Avatar
Dec 17 2015 at 11:33pm ricardoguitars said:
Sweet!!! Nothing like smoking cagers with just a few CCs under the seat, and a gas tank filled with spare change, lol. I have reached 92kmph (GPS) on my BBKed 125cc at 8k rpms, after that it feels like the tires loose all the traction and the suspension becomes useless, almost like levitating down the road.
Ricardoguitars,
When I first got the Kymco, it had brand-new Kenda J-rated tires installed. Even at 60 mph, I had the EXACT same sensation you describe on your fast 125... I was VERY unhappy. I traded the nearly-new tires back for good "P-rated" ones and had them balanced. WOW!!! It was like a whole new scooter!
I can't understate the difference tires can make. In my case, I've got a "mix" of a whitewall Shinko 120/70/12 up front, and a Michelin "Power Pure" 140/70/12 in back. I normally wouldn't mix tires, but did so to get whitewalls. (The rear has to be painted, since NOBODY makes a 140/70/12 whitewall). My dealer was great about researching which "paintable" rear "P-rated" tire would be the best mix with the Shinko whitewall up front, and the mix is absolute perfection at any speed!
Woo-HOO!
I'm so impressed by the difference these tires made that I'd highly recommend experimentation with tires before EVER giving up on a scooter that seems to be a poor handler.
My old Xingyue 150 had low-end Kendas from the factory, and they rode just fine. But the Kendas were truly awful on the Kymco.
There are only a few bucks difference between bargain tires and higher-end tires, and I am a believer now, that good tires are a BIG plus (especially on 250 and larger scoots)... I'd now go with P-rated meats even on a scooter that won't hit their 92 mph rating. Mine handle infinitely better, even at very low speeds. NO LEVITATING... LOL!
Ride safe!
Leo |
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Post by oldchopperguy on Dec 19, 2015 1:48:35 GMT -5
I don't even ride the wing that fast.... Never mind your 'wing, I don't even ride the car that fast! >'Kat
Aw, c'mon Kat...
Those Italian stallions are made to run! Hit the 4-lane on that pretty spaghetti-burner, twist her ear and let 'er rip! You'll feel like a teenager again!
You'll also find out if your tires need balancing... LOL! 
Ride safe and ENJOY the ride!
Leo
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Post by rockynv on Dec 19, 2015 10:46:21 GMT -5
The Aprilia constantly surprises me in a pleasant way and has just been overall a wonderfully balanced bike so yes the Italians do have the light motorcycle scooter formula dialed in with their 250 to 350 cc bikes. The older 200's were almost there but needed just a tad more refinement to make them truly capable bikes on a 4 lane.
Quality Pirelli, Michelin or Heidenau tires accurately spun balanced can make a really big difference in how a bike behaves at Interstate speeds.
Be mindful that speed ratings are mostly heat ratings or basically how fast you can run them for 10 minutes before they will overheat and fail. A 75 mph rated tire has to pass a loaded test at that speed for 10 minutes so depending on the maker it may be safe at 75 mph at 100 degrees for hours and have reserve capacity to hold up even longer or at higher speeds while others may give out shortly after the 10 minute mark so you really do not want to run at a tires max speed rating for more than a few minutes and need to keep that in mind if your time on the Interstate exceeds 10 minute intervals at or near to a tires max speed rating. Also one has to be aware that a tire patch even professionally applied can significantly reduce the max safe speed of a tire.
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Post by oldchopperguy on Dec 19, 2015 17:09:55 GMT -5
The Aprilia constantly surprises me in a pleasant way and has just been overall a wonderfully balanced bike so yes the Italians do have the light motorcycle scooter formula dialed in with their 250 to 350 cc bikes. The older 200's were almost there but needed just a tad more refinement to make them truly capable bikes on a 4 lane. Quality Pirelli, Michelin or Heidenau tires accurately spun balanced can make a really big difference in how a bike behaves at Interstate speeds. Be mindful that speed ratings are mostly heat ratings or basically how fast you can run them for 10 minutes before they will overheat and fail. A 75 mph rated tire has to pass a loaded test at that speed for 10 minutes so depending on the maker it may be safe at 75 mph at 100 degrees for hours and have reserve capacity to hold up even longer or at higher speeds while others may give out shortly after the 10 minute mark so you really do not want to run at a tires max speed rating for more than a few minutes and need to keep that in mind if your time on the Interstate exceeds 10 minute intervals at or near to a tires max speed rating. Also one has to be aware that a tire patch even professionally applied can significantly reduce the max safe speed of a tire.
Rockynv,
VERY good advice! I don't have much to worry about with the old Kymco... She won't do the 92 mph P-rating for more than the available downhill will permit... LOL! Her "real world" 70 mph cruise should be safe for as long as needed...
Good point about a patched tire. Something we often forget! Patches bring out the weak-spots and make balancing difficult. Best to replace a damaged tire. I've never been around a bike experiencing a blowout, BUT, I was riding behind a pal long ago on his new Ducati Darmah when the FRONT WHEEL disintegrated at around 140 mph.
He was a little "crazy" and showing what his Italian ride could do, and was clad ONLY in shorts and flip-flops... Not smart, but common in the '70's.
Fortunately, he survived. The Duck did a counted (by bounce-marks) 27 cartwheels and my pal plowed a thousand-foot trench in the pea-gravel shoulder. He's now 70, and still getting gravel picked out of his arthritic body... LO not so L...
Watch those tires... Your life is riding on 'em!
Leo
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Post by Paladin on Dec 19, 2015 20:48:46 GMT -5
I have 11" tire front, 10" rear, M-speed (81mph) Heidenau tires. I do go over 65 mph, but I don't think I ever did over 70. On the Interstates I generally cruise 60-62 mph. At 60-62 mph I get 70-75 mpg. Cruising WOT at 65-66 mph I get 60 mpg.
But my little tires are just fine on the highways.
Classic Austin Mini Coopers can do 100 mph on 10" tires.
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, 
, 
and finally 99... (an actual 96 mph)... Even pushing that big old windshield, the mouse was really "hauling the mail"! But I ran out of downhill before I could coax Minnie to "do the dime". Probably never will. Oh well, the shop manual lists her top-speed as 70 mph. Fooey!
