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Post by JR on Dec 31, 2015 10:27:20 GMT -5
dollartwentyfive Typically the colors used by the Chinese confirm to the codes that are accepted as a standard on electrical color coding, ex. red = positive (hot) from the battery. Black is generally ground from the battery to the frame for grounding then green is used for smaller grounding wires, however it is very common for black to be exclusively a ground wire with the 2T scooters. Generally speaking grounding the frame from the battery is a thing that is done and some scooters will have a black from that hookup point to the engine also and the green wire that is used throughout the harness is hooked up at this point too. Grounding the engine is essential because the engine is mounted in a way with rubber bushings that sometimes keeps it from being grounded properly for starting purposes and also charging purposes, some scooters come with a grounded stator some come with what is called a floating ground. JR
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Post by dollartwentyfive on Dec 31, 2015 11:35:29 GMT -5
dollartwentyfive Typically the colors used by the Chinese confirm to the codes that are accepted as a standard on electrical color coding, ex. red = positive (hot) from the battery. Black is generally ground from the battery to the frame for grounding then green is used for smaller grounding wires, however it is very common for black to be exclusively a ground wire with the 2T scooters. 2T? isn't a 2T a 2 stroke? all i know is what i found on my bike, and it was a maxi scoot, specifically a 244cc there was not a single frame ground on it. there were 2 grounds, one was to the engine, the other was a single green wire that collected all the others, that wire went directly back to the battery. i should know, i rewired it. the stator was a 3 wire floating type. speaking about the stator, the autochoke was driven by the stator, it wasn't 12V. apparently this size engine has 2 types of chokes, and both will fit, but they cannot be interchanged. i replaced mine 4 times before i had enough. i finally tore one apart to see how i could rig up a work around, and succeeded. i had to hand choke it to get it started, but other than that i didn't have any problems with it. |
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Post by rcq92130 on Dec 31, 2015 12:50:44 GMT -5
Yes, But Apricot has a GY6 150cc scooter. It's not clear to me how telling him about a 244cc engine helps him solve his problem. But that's just me.
Happy New year, everyone.
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Post by JR on Dec 31, 2015 13:34:48 GMT -5
dollartwentyfive Typically the colors used by the Chinese confirm to the codes that are accepted as a standard on electrical color coding, ex. red = positive (hot) from the battery. Black is generally ground from the battery to the frame for grounding then green is used for smaller grounding wires, however it is very common for black to be exclusively a ground wire with the 2T scooters. 2T? isn't a 2T a 2 stroke? all i know is what i found on my bike, and it was a maxi scoot, specifically a 244cc there was not a single frame ground on it. there were 2 grounds, one was to the engine, the other was a single green wire that collected all the others, that wire went directly back to the battery. i should know, i rewired it. the stator was a 3 wire floating type. speaking about the stator, the autochoke was driven by the stator, it wasn't 12V. apparently this size engine has 2 types of chokes, and both will fit, but they cannot be interchanged. i replaced mine 4 times before i had enough. i finally tore one apart to see how i could rig up a work around, and succeeded. i had to hand choke it to get it started, but other than that i didn't have any problems with it. I'm sure you found exactly what you said you found but's let's do consider that the "typical" GY-6 while having some colors match as you said they also can have different setups too. Let me ask you a questions? Is the 244c you are talking about this scooter?  If so then I can tell you the wiring on this scooter is poor along with the fuse box and stator to go with it. Why do I know this, have worked on several and on several scooter forums one can find the bad stories of wiring, stator and R/R problems with this scooter. In fact some have went to using a custom R/R and changed the high amp draw cooling fan to a higher rpm/lower amp pull fan along with a all LED change out to milk every ounce of voltage they can to keep the battery charged. There are others with the vertical 244cc but this is the most popular. I own two of the sister linhai versions of this scooter and the electrical on the linhai is head and shoulders above the 244cc and never has these electrical issues and yes the engines aren't grounded as far as the stator,why? 3-phase stator systems with a voltage sensing R/R the engine doesn't need a ground except for the starter and both my 250 linhais have a ground wire running from the battery to one of the bolts that hold the starter in on the ground side. Even if your scooter engine isn't grounded it won't hurt to do so. If you have the 244cc MC-250-13 scooter the electrical is nearly the same as the 244cc version of the 250B which is the copy of the famous Honda Reflex. But there are differences between the horizontal linhai and the vertical 244cc version in the wiring set up. The MC-250-13 is a copy of the long ago Honda Foresight:  I can tell you differences in lot's of scooter wiring setups but as I stated earlier there are things that are generally a color code typical the same with lots of scooters and there are differences the black being a ground on lot's of 2-strokes, can provide lot's of diagrams from my libraries on my other forums and going to put those libraries here too. I can also tell you that the starter solenoid "positive" wire that ties into the brake handle so that when you push the start button is generally yellow/green in about 99% of all scooters but sometimes the Chinese will fool you and pull one of the "this is the color I have today because I'm out of yellow/green wire" and assemble it with "whatever" Need to remember that there are some things that are a given among lots of scooters from 50cc to 600ccbut there are things that are not, like an example I mentioned I can show you a 150cc GY-6 that has the standard grounded to the engine stator and I can take and find a 150 GY-6 with a floating ground stator and one has to know what they have before they purchase a R/R if they need one too. Side by side you could not tell the difference until you opened them up and looked at the stator set up. I can show you a 50cc or 150cc that has a engine kill switch that when activated the scooter won't make a sound and I can show you a kill switch system that the engine will turn over but not start with the kill switch in the engine off position. Again different strokes for different folks and when one gives advice on the "typical" way a scooter is set up and things aren't still in order then the norm is to look at other set ups, myself I ask for pictures of things and I've went through so many hundreds of diagrams helping on scooters I can generally identify what's going on quickly from past experiences of helping people. JR |
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Post by dollartwentyfive on Dec 31, 2015 13:53:15 GMT -5
it seems that i not only do not know anything about scooter registration, i also do not know anything about scooters either.
enjoy your ego massaging circle jerk guys.
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Post by pistonguy on Dec 31, 2015 14:22:15 GMT -5
it seems that i not only do not know anything about scooter registration, i also do not know anything about scooters either. enjoy your ego massaging circle jerk guys. Well ya are still in Classroom #101 on the Definition of a "Piston Seizure"  or any material seizure. man I aint been called a Circle Jerk, hmm well since I drove in Circles I guess. kinda like it   |
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Post by geh3333 on Dec 31, 2015 14:41:55 GMT -5
Alright so I just put in the new starter, its trying harder but it spins, catches a tough point and spins again And it's getting fuel there's a bit in the line before the carb now I hate to say this. But your at the point were you need to check the starter clutch. They are pretty cheap also . if you bypassed the electrical and it still does it , then that's where u are . |
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Post by rcq92130 on Dec 31, 2015 14:45:02 GMT -5
Nah, Dollar, it's not about that at all!
Apricot has been here since 12/7 - 200 responses & 25 days and counting - in the hopes of getting his scooter back on the road. The poor guy is going to get frustrated and walk away in dismay!
We all should be concentrating not on our own experiences - no matter how valid - unless they directly relate to what we believe can best help Apricot out. A lot of the discussions here (soft seize, starter clutch, etc) are interesting and fun, but do they really help Apricot get back on the road? This thread got so convoluted and complicated GEH even tried starting a new thread for him moving forward. Maybe that was a good idea - don't see the thread any longer.
Anyway;
HAPPY NEW YEAR TO ALL !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Ride safe - there are a lot of amateur drunks on the road this time of year!
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Post by rcq92130 on Dec 31, 2015 14:52:59 GMT -5
He hasn't yet done that, George. That's his next step - and it will tell us if the problem is upstream or downstream of the starter motor.
As an aside - since it's so easy, do you think he should remove the belt just to make sure, no matter how unlikely, it's not a rear clutch problem? Not very likely, but so easy to do - and to me you want to eliminate possibilities so you can narrow down on the problem.
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Post by JR on Dec 31, 2015 14:59:16 GMT -5
it seems that i not only do not know anything about scooter registration, i also do not know anything about scooters either. enjoy your ego massaging circle jerk guys. Woa hold the bus! I have no idea as to why this comment was made. I don't recall asking about your registration but "politely" asked what scooter you have? You mention in a lot of your posts about your 244cc, ok there are different versions of the 244cc which I "politely" stated. Reason? As pointed out "politely" by another that the OP's scooter is a 150cc GY-6 and I also mentioned there are things that are a given on nearly all scooters I also "politely" mentioned there are differences sometimes in scooters and while you made some good points along the typical realm there are things about the OP's scooter that are not applicable to a 244cc scooter. I "politely" said this, have no ego about it or nothing to prove about it either. I stated facts about scooters that if you have worked with/on you would know no matter who you are. I own 5 scooters and they range from 50cc to 250cc and while I can use experiences I've had dealing with them I can assure you that if someone tells me their scooter doesn't fit what I have not only am I going to believe them but I'm going to as I mentioned ask for more info like pictures and then use other resources, other people's opinion and comments and the vast libraries that are here and other p[laces to do one thing "help" the person in need. Now we still have a member here who isn't riding their scooter and if I was him I would tell this forum to kiss off for all of the non-related BS in this thread and I can only apologize for it. So if you want to add ideas and also quit having a problem with other members "politely" explaining what they think is wrong and "politely" telling you this is a 150cc GY-6 scooter and look for a way to help this fellow member then awesome, if you want to tell me that I have a ego problem for "politely" explaining the "many" differences in these machines and his problem might not be applicable to a 244cc scooter that you didn't answer which one you have then "quietly" bow out. JR |
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Post by tvnacman on Dec 31, 2015 17:42:00 GMT -5
it seems that i not only do not know anything about scooter registration, i also do not know anything about scooters either. enjoy your ego massaging circle jerk guys. I think you have a lot to bring to the table here, we all start somewhere. I don't see why you should be sour grapes as you are above. You brought up some good points no one was talking down towards/to you. Please keep in mind when things don't go your way it can get very frustrating. Lets stay focused here. We have a scooter down together we can get it squared up. I don't see any thumbs down on your post count. dollartwentyfive John |
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Post by geh3333 on Dec 31, 2015 21:02:46 GMT -5
I'd be very surprised if the belt was the issue " or CVT " . but then again that may cause the scoot to die while riding !!
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Post by geh3333 on Dec 31, 2015 21:09:03 GMT -5
If the clutch bearings where going bad causing the pulley Not spin freely , that would cause some tension on the belt holding the crank back a little . Its worth a shot " taking the belt off .
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Post by geh3333 on Dec 31, 2015 21:12:30 GMT -5
Actually imnnot so sure the scoot would have died unless it died at idle , so not so sure about that. I'd do the electrical skipage and see how that goes , then if he wants to try it without the belt he can . then of its the same , I'd look at the starter clutch .
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Post by rcq92130 on Jan 1, 2016 10:14:58 GMT -5
OK, to be clear:
We are waiting on Apricot to see if his engine turns over correctly by jump-starting from a known good car battery (car NOT running) directly to the screw on the starter where the large red wire attaches. The black jumper cable should attach to ground - if possible, directly to where the starter motor attaches to the case.
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