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Post by spandi on Sept 25, 2015 10:17:37 GMT -5
Interesting topic....... First off, many folks buy a 50cc scooter because of the law involved... Getting a "bigger bike" negates the purpose of buying cheap transportation without hassle........ No extra license or rules to follow.....) Once you mod the 50 to go faster than the law allowing it to be ridden without a license or insurance allows then it becomes a motorcycle requiring a license and insurance so the speed mods negate the benefits of being under the legal requirements and make it unlawful which will bite you in the event that you get into an accident and you are caught as an unlicensed rider without insurance riding a bike modified out of its original classification. Any other insurances you have often will not cover you while doing something illegal such as driving without a license. I understand that many do not comprehend or care about the ethics of all this however it is not ethical or legal to pass off a modified 50cc bike capable of speeds over the limits imposed for an unlicensed motorbike as a unregulated 50cc bike that does not require licensing or insurance. It does not matter if the registry in your area does not make it easy to register and insure the modified bikes or how may others do it and get away with it as they are no longer street legal without insurance and licensing once they are modified to exceed the speed rating for uninsured/unregistered bikes. Unfortunately a lot of people riding "Liquor-cycles" have already lost their license and really don't care, thus giving everyone on a scoot a bad rep.  |
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Post by novaraptor on Sept 25, 2015 10:30:28 GMT -5
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Post by rockynv on Sept 25, 2015 15:42:06 GMT -5
Once you mod the 50 to go faster than the law allowing it to be ridden without a license or insurance allows then it becomes a motorcycle requiring a license and insurance so the speed mods negate the benefits of being under the legal requirements and make it unlawful which will bite you in the event that you get into an accident and you are caught as an unlicensed rider without insurance riding a bike modified out of its original classification. Any other insurances you have often will not cover you while doing something illegal such as driving without a license. I understand that many do not comprehend or care about the ethics of all this however it is not ethical or legal to pass off a modified 50cc bike capable of speeds over the limits imposed for an unlicensed motorbike as a unregulated 50cc bike that does not require licensing or insurance. It does not matter if the registry in your area does not make it easy to register and insure the modified bikes or how may others do it and get away with it as they are no longer street legal without insurance and licensing once they are modified to exceed the speed rating for uninsured/unregistered bikes. Unfortunately a lot of people riding "Liquor-cycles" have already lost their license and really don't care, thus giving everyone on a scoot a bad rep. Liquor-cycles here are further restricted than a standard 50cc and the penalty if your caught can get pretty bad. Think of riding something akin to the Fisher Price My First Motorcycle for the rest of your life. |
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Post by horace on Sept 25, 2015 15:49:15 GMT -5
See, now things become really interesting....... You have a 50cc-- mod it to go over 35 MPH. You did learn a bit doing that.... But it's illegal if caught. Let's say instead of a 50 this person bought a Liter Bike 1,000cc perfectly legal... Walks out of the dealership Then kills a mini van full of nuns doing 150 in a school zone...... Seems like the issue is really about riding to your skill level IMO. Start slow and move up..... Don't buy big and curve your activities..... The Liquor Cycle is a different discussion altogether, Most states require a license in the first place. Some folks don't deserve to drive for a reason!!!!...... Being young and dumb is not a reason---- Knowledge comes with experience, Experience is gained by practice and modification..... Kind of a "we have come full circle" discussion.... Round and round we go  |
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Post by horace on Sept 25, 2015 15:54:23 GMT -5
Your not to far from the truth Rocky--- This is a thing
Silly humans
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Post by horace on Sept 25, 2015 15:58:18 GMT -5
Did I say being young and dumb is not a reason??? I retract that statement.... Some folks are just,-------
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Post by rockynv on Sept 25, 2015 22:24:53 GMT -5
That is why motorcycle licensing is handled by MSF here. You need to pass the MSF course to get a license and if caught without a license riding a bike that can go over 35 mph they impound the bike and you must take and pass the MSF course along with get a license assigned to you before you can get the bike out of impound unless the bike is deemed to not be street legal. You rack up enough points or make a big enough infraction and your license is cancelled along with your bike having the potential to be impounded and then you may be able to get them back by retaking the MSF course and passing.
Half the folks taking the MSF training when I took mine were there because they were caught riding unlicensed and needed to pass the course to get their bikes out of impound. Florida is taking a real hard stand on licenses and insurance.
In July they suspended my license because they did not get correct insurance confirmation from the insurance agent for the policy on my wifes car so automatically my license was suspended along with the registration on the car and I could not legally drive for a week while we got it straightened out. A garbled fax transmission and computer error at the tag office was deemed to be the issue so I did not have to go for a recert however I still had to pay the admin and processing fees on the paperwork. Florida or at least the county I live in is getting pretty tough on enforcement.
As more and more sophisticated cameras are getting mounted on Police Cruisers and traffic lights the more easily they will be catching you. The future predicted in the SciFi movies has arrived and the cams already have OCR and Facial Recognition software running on their streams in many locations. A bike going past a cam at over 35 can potentially raise a flag and have them on the lookout for you especially if they note you regularly passing by a particular intersection.
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Post by floridagull on Sept 28, 2015 11:35:20 GMT -5
In Florida, the ONLY motorized vehicle one can drive on the roads without a license (and one has to be at least 16) is an electric bicycle with a 750 watt or less electric motor and pedals capable of no more than 20 mph. Jetson E-Bike, Tao Tao ATE501, Puma Fox.
Mopeds (50cc or less, with pedals) and 50cc or less scooters do not require a motorcycle endorsement, but DO require a regular driver's license to operate. A moped must be registered, but does not require a title - a scooter requires both. Everything requires insurance - not the electric bike, though...
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Post by wheelbender6 on Sept 28, 2015 19:06:49 GMT -5
Some of those Fisher Price motorcycles look really cool. A lot of those Power Wheels look better than what I'm driving. College students have been hopping up the Power Wheels and racing them for quite a while. www.powerracingseries.org/ |
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Post by rockynv on Sept 29, 2015 9:30:10 GMT -5
In Florida, the ONLY motorized vehicle one can drive on the roads without a license (and one has to be at least 16) is an electric bicycle with a 750 watt or less electric motor and pedals capable of no more than 20 mph. Jetson E-Bike, Tao Tao ATE501, Puma Fox. Mopeds (50cc or less, with pedals) and 50cc or less scooters do not require a motorcycle endorsement, but DO require a regular driver's license to operate. A moped must be registered, but does not require a title - a scooter requires both. Everything requires insurance - not the electric bike, though... They are cracking down here lately and more so in some parts than in others. Even the no helmet provision has some requirements in that you have to have a bodily injury policy with a required amount of coverage however no carrier I checked out will cover you if you ride without a helmet making the no helmet provision kind off moot since you can't really meet the insurance requirement that allows you to go without. Even my company health plan has an exclusion of coverage if injured while riding without a helmet. Yes the 50cc Scooter only removes the requirement for a motorcycle endorsement however you still need liability insurance and technically all riders regardless of how good they feel they are need to take the Basic Riders Course. Since that satisfies the requirements to get your Motorcycle Endorsement its a No Brainer to just get licensed and take advantage of being able to ride a bike that will deal with Florida Main Street and State Road traffic. The only place safe to ride a 50 is in a residential cluster however the only routes out of the residential zones are the 45 mph Main Streets or the 50 to 65 mph State Roads where you will only be marginally safe in the bicycle lane however its illegal to ride a 50cc scooter in the bicycle lane. The other choice is the 25cc Whizzer type motorized assist bicycles but then they are not too good off the bicycle routes. Bike routes that are part of the Pinellas Trail System though prohibit any bicycle with any type of assist motor gas or electric. |
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Post by floridagull on Sept 29, 2015 14:52:57 GMT -5
I got my son one of the electric bikes - the Puma Fox - from Bikeberry. Ordered it around Father's Day - about $977 including shipping. It is quite a bit of fun - and, it has been running for 3 months now with a not-necessarily-responsible 17 year old driving it, and he has not killed it (yet...)! He's currently taking his time with his online DL permit course - I recall being in quite the hurry to get my driver's license, but he doesn't seem to be - and I'm not going to push him! This way, he'll be over 18 when he finally gets his license, so insurance should be less exhorbitant for him (only hideously expensive...).
Anyway, his friend's grandfather bought his friend a bicycle with a 2-stroke gas engine on it. In Florida, these are illegal to ride on the road - this is why my son doesn't have one. His friend has been warned numerous times - when it is running - it was bought at a pawn shop, so it runs infrequently - and 2 17-year-olds with limited mechanical knowledge only make things worse...I don't think they quite get the mixing oil and gas thing...
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Post by rockynv on Sept 30, 2015 7:27:21 GMT -5
Kids need to do chores around the yard and run the two stroke weed whackers and such before they get to use other motorized equipment. When I was growing up if it was a small gas powered road bike it was a 2 stroke unless it was a Cushman as other than the Cushman Scooters only off road mini bikes with lawn edger motors were 4 stroke. You had to have a large motorcycle to have a 4 stroke road bike.
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Post by mikestib1 on Oct 1, 2015 14:34:16 GMT -5
, just buy a used motorcycle, but..... A lot of people are intimidated by the licensing process and there are waiting lists for testing in the US, then there's insurance for anything over 49cc
Let them buy 50's and modify them. It's a free country. They can always move up after having fun with their first scoot!
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Post by rockynv on Oct 2, 2015 10:23:56 GMT -5
, just buy a used motorcycle, but..... A lot of people are intimidated by the licensing process and there are waiting lists for testing in the US, then there's insurance for anything over 49cc Let them buy 50's and modify them. It's a free country. They can always move up after having fun with their first scoot! Yes free to do anything that the law allows. You can modify a 50 and change it into what the DOT classifies as a Motorcycle however once you modify it an make it into a motorcycle you now face having to comply with the motorcycle licensing, registration and insurance regulations. I know many don't and are actually defying the law but that does not really make it a good thing to do. Like I already mentioned the MSF class I attended had about 50% of the students there for getting pinched riding a bike classified as a motorcycle without possessing a Motorcycle License and it was a split between modified 50cc bikes and bikes that had come off the assembly line as motorcycles. Those that got caught really did not save anything since the still had to pay for the class and license however most also had to pay a fine and impound fees and then a surcharge on their insurance for having points for riding without a license on their record. Some were also facing loss of employment for all the time off they were taking while dealing with getting caught. Some learned their lesson while a small number still had a defiant attitude about it all. The really defiant did not pass and had to retake the class while the impound fees they needed to pay in order to get their bikes back continued to escalate. |
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Post by horace on Oct 2, 2015 21:01:56 GMT -5
Remember, lots of folks also have Registered/Insured/ Licensed 50cc scooters...... Not everyone on a 50 is riding because of some past law infraction.... If you have a MC License, you can do ANYTHING to a 50cc. The only worrie is traffic I owned a Grom for example....... Modded it out and sold it. I almost broke even in the deal, What I learned about motorcycles and people driving is priceless........ That is why I originaly said a "Liqure Cycle " is a different topic alltogether......... Take a real Moped.... Legal with pedels, Restoring it to original is considered moddification--- Simply because new parts are added....... Maybe a set of bigger brakes to help stop... That's a modification..... Heck a sticker that boosts HP is also a mod from the original paint.... Intersting topic... |
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