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Post by bandito2 on Jul 20, 2015 10:42:06 GMT -5
Mostly (well totally actually) I'm a Japanese bike kind of guy but Chinese curious. I see that most Chinese bikes often get upgraded with aftermarket parts. Mostly I'm assuming this is for the purpose of reliability... Is that true for the most part or are things like ignition coils and carburetors replaced for better performance though the original would have been sufficient? Also curious if most of these "upgrade" parts are not also made in China. If so, it would beg the question as to why not just install better parts in the first place during manufacture? It shouldn't cost much more for manufacturing and easy to recoup by a small uptick in price and would go a long way for customer satisfaction and repeat buyers. Then again, it just may be the Chinese way of thinking that they might do it that way. It seems also that most have air cooled engines which would seem to make manufacture simpler and less expensive. But cooling for these seem to sometimes be more of an issue than for water cooled scooters. There don't seem to be many water cooled Chinese scoots in the 150cc -200cc range. That would be a size I would find interesting to tinker with and still have enough to do OK on surface streets in the 50-55 mph range. Granted, they would be slightly heavier and cost more than the air cooled scoots, but water cooling has some properties that make them better; cooling wise anyway. My interest is mostly for the area of reliability. No need to try to "hop up" a small bike when a bigger bike would do if more power was desired. And I'm thinking it is getting too expensive keep up tinkering with the "OTC" (other than Chinese) scooters. Since used bike conditions would be all over the map regardless of brand reliability, what recommendations for new Chinese water cooled scooters (that seem to have a better record) in the 150-200 cc range would some of you make? and why? (with mechanical replacement parts in mind... not so much the cosmetic stuff like body plastics.) What the heck! include the air cooled ones too. (OH! and as spandi recommends. those made 2010 and later) I'm going to be selling one of my Honda Reflex scooters pretty soon and would like to have something in mind. (since the $$ from the sale would surely be burning a hole in my pocket.)  On second thought, I'm going to move this to a different thread . |
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Post by rockynv on Jul 20, 2015 12:04:34 GMT -5
If you are wanting 50 to 55 and reliability then a water cooled 250 is your best bet. Sym and Kymco would be the quality bikes with great reliability. My 250cc Aprilia was only a few hundred more than the Puma 250 available at local brick and mortor stores. Suzuki is now making a nice small Burgman which you may find on an incentive sale and those being higher compression would perform quite nicely in factory configuration.
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Post by spandi on Jul 20, 2015 12:57:59 GMT -5
Since your question is about CHINESE scooters allow me to give you my perspective as an owner of one. The scoot I have is a Znen 250cc (I agree with you about getting sufficient horsepower in the first place) having already ridden a 125 Honda scoot I was surprised by the overall build of the unit. (first hand experience as opposed to "Ghost Stories" by people who never had a China scoot) The bike had heavy parts and a solid structure, but, where the Chinese seem to mess up is in the quality of the small details such as bearings, bolts, cleaner welds. And I have often asked myself the same question as you, and thought that with a 20% improvement in QC they could eat Japan's lunch. So I ended up doing a more than necessary rebuild, (OK, so I went over the top. Well, WAY over) and in turn have what amounts to a two wheeled Jag-u-ar contrary to popular scooter "mythology" the Honda clone engines will take, and have available a wide range of very high quality parts. In doing the work myself I have learned about what goes on with every part of my scoot, and in addition to not having to pay someone $80-100 an hour after the warranty is done. Chinese bikes aren't for everyone, but for those with a mechanical knack, can be reliable and a whole lot of fun.  BTW, I would avoid any Chinese scoot from from 2008-2009 when gas prices were high and they were turning out product way too fast. |
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Post by ricardoguitars on Jul 20, 2015 15:14:45 GMT -5
Like Spandi points, Chinese scoots are for those not afraid of tools and motor oil stains, a well serviced Chinese engine is not likely to give troubles, but you WILL have troubles with the electronics and fuel lines, so it's better to just swap them with quality replacements right after you get the scoot. Chinese parts availability and price are by far better than Jap brands, since all Chinese scooter brands are basically the same design.
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Post by spandi on Jul 20, 2015 20:50:50 GMT -5
In a lot of ways the parts that were on there were sufficient, but as I said I kinda took it as far as I could go. Malossi clutch, Pirelli tires, nine coats of gloss black paint on the frame, ceramic bearings, Samco silicone hoses. As it stands now the scoot is about a third Italian, a third British, and the rest Chinese.  |
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Post by bandito2 on Jul 20, 2015 22:14:46 GMT -5
No fears of turning a wrench here. Overhauled a Rotax 447 for my ultralight back in the day, head cleaned, cylinder hone, rings & gaskets replaced, etc. Replaced the gears and drive-line case to my Silverwing after getting it bent in a rear-ender. I did have a shop press in new bearings though. Put in a Polini final drive gear set for one of my Reflex scooters and again, had a shop with a 20 ton press put a gear on the shaft after pushing the old one off since I don't have that kind of tool around to do it myself. In the next few days I'll be putting in a replacement stator for another of my Honda Reflex scooters. Replaced drive belts several times. (even once at the side of the road) removed & replaced body plastics, do my own servicing except for putting new tires on the rims.etc, etc. I'm pretty sure it wouldn't take long to get comfortable with the basic 157QMJ GY6 air cooled engine or the CF250 watercooled engines which are a whole lot like the Honda Helix motors and apparently more common than the 200cc GY6. I had a Helix once upon a time. (kinda miss that red beauty "Sweet N' Low") spandi, what is the wear life of the drive belts for your 250 China scoot and how long do replacement belts last? Yeah, I could get into this. (but I would still keep my Hondas  ) |
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Post by spandi on Jul 20, 2015 23:15:15 GMT -5
You should have NO trouble after being able to do all that. And I don't blame you for keeping the Reflex, (I'd keep the Honda too.)  I can't say yet as to belt life as I replaced the original (new) belt with a Japanese Bando unit, . (did I mention "over the top"  ) Oh yeah, the CF Moto is a clone of the 244cc Helix unit, so upgrading any parts you want should present no problems. In fact, I swapped out the Chinese starter clutch for an OEM Honda unit and it dropped right in. |
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Post by JerryScript on Jul 21, 2015 16:23:07 GMT -5
I have a 50cc with an 80cc BBK and a 150cc stock, both made by Znen. I built up the 50cc with performance parts, but have kept the 150cc stock so far. The only stock components I've had to replace on them were the R/R on the 50cc (kept blowing headlights till I replaced the R/R), and the turn signal flasher unit and one brake master cylinder on the 150cc. I'm a big supporter of Znen models, they seem to be among the highest quality of Chinese scooters these days, with at least two import rebranders that are mentioned
often as high quality using Znen for their business.
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Post by fireball12 on Jul 24, 2015 22:07:28 GMT -5
I got 7600 miles on my Chinese 250. Still runs good. I had to replace tires about every 2000 to 3000 miles, but would have to do this on any brand. Roketa wanted to only sell a complete brake set ( a master cylinder, new caliper, pads, and line for $120 + $$20 shipping) but all I wanted was a master cylinder. So I bought a mc54 b master cylinder for left brake for $22 free shipping on Amazon. Had to do some miner adjustments since my 250cc scoot was a mc 13 250. It went through 4 starters. Been thinking of buying a kit for $15 so can have replacement starter ready. The worse part is waiting on parts, with Chinese scoots. It is reliable but having no dealerships is the sticky issue. A starter cost $50 and a kit cost $15. My scooter has been well maintained and is going on 8 years of riding. The 150cc air cooled engines are for short distance trips. So like maybe the longest trip would be 15 miles and give the scoot a break. The 250's can go for longer trips since water cooled. I rode my scooter 60 miles with ease. Rode from mid Missouri to Quincy IL.. me on my Bali 250 and my wife on a Honda Rebel. I would not try that on a 150cc china scoot, unless gave it a 15 minute cool down every 15 miles. But the same thing is required by Yamaha, Kymco, Honda... is air cooled scooters. You can't just ride many miles without engines overheating. My miles on 250 are mainly highway miles. A 150cc is not really meant for highway riding, just jumping on highways to meet up with other roads in a metropolitan area. The 250's are meant for long distance travel, from city to city travel. So let's say you live in San Jose CA. San Jose is joined together with other cities like Cambell, Santa Clara, Cupertino, Mountain View, ect. and this would be the perfect inviroment for a 150cc scooter. You have many cites that join one another like San Jose might stop with McDonald's on one corner and across the street be Santa Clara and Toco Bell across the street from McDonalds. But it is where one can get on his 150cc scoot and travel from one city to the next without having to worry about blowing a engine due to no where to pull off to give scooter a break. It has 35 MPH roads and also 55 MPH highways. So riding is more enjoyable knowing one can get around and do the speed limit. But the main issue, is Chinese parts and playing the wait game.
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Post by fireball12 on Jul 24, 2015 23:08:27 GMT -5
Harley Davidson is out sourcing to China to have motorcycle parts built cheaper. It also is funny that one would think, a Chinese scooter is a cheap machine. That one can't get parts. See, my scooter is a direct copy of a Japanese scooter called the Honda Foresight 250. The only difference in body style is the headlights. Mine has 2 lights and the Foresight has 1 light. The Foresight was never marketed in the USA and only made for Europe and Asia. So we could not buy body parts through no one else but Roketa. The engine is more interesting because it is a CN250 engine made by Honda for the Honda Helix engine. So many parts are interchangeable with the Honda Helix. Even had a Honda Dealer say he would work on my scooter. But I do all my own work, with exception of changing tires. Honda has a machine that does it, so does not bend rim. But many of these scooter engines are copies on Honda engines. So like I could have bought a starter for my scooter through Honda, but would have paid $168 for it plus tax. Also Honda might have not had the part in stock. Wait... So by looking at Amazon for cn250 starters, found one for $50 and a rebuild kit for $15. It is about saving money for me. So in someways Honda is no better at stocking parts.  |
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Post by jtron on Jul 25, 2015 11:45:20 GMT -5
Hey, u live in San Jose? I'm right over the hill in Santa cruz! Lol ever taken your scoot over 17? That would Be an awesome ride if you could get up the hill. I have a little 150 which gets me anywhere in Santa Cruz faster and cheaper than a car, good thing sc is so small there's no need for highways, I can even take back roads to watsonville if I need
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