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Post by geh3333 on Jun 12, 2015 19:15:50 GMT -5
Well I did some numbers and found that my scoot is burning on average of about .0916 ml every ignition stroke. So I guess at least this much fuel is entering the chamber on each stroke before ignition. Now of someone can find out how much air should be entering that would be great !
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Post by geh3333 on Jun 12, 2015 19:16:51 GMT -5
I'll give it a shot
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Post by geh3333 on Jun 12, 2015 19:40:51 GMT -5
(Edit) please skip this post !!! 14.7 lbs of air is needed to burn 1 lb of gasoline , so here we go I think you need at least .000355713 lbs of air . so .0916 ml of gas and .000355713 lbs of air every ignition or .161 grams of air . I just need to know how much room that takes up.
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Post by geh3333 on Jun 12, 2015 19:47:30 GMT -5
Or maybe I can just compare that to a stock scoots mpg . but what we really need is someone who has just done a uni and exhaust mod with an upjet and see how many mpg they get compared to the stock setup. Keeping the same bore and head size will show how much more fuel is able to be burned in the chamber then how much is being burned with the stock setup. This will show that even a stock bore can take more air and fuel , and still not be too rich .
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Post by geh3333 on Jun 12, 2015 19:50:42 GMT -5
(Edit) please skip this post , wrong air calculation !!
Can anyone tell me how much space .161 grams of air and .0916 ml of gas takes up ? The air is the hard part.
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Post by chromestarhustler on Jun 12, 2015 21:52:00 GMT -5
Can anyone tell me how much space .161 grams of air and .0916 ml of gas takes up ? The air is the hard part. not if you know 1 cubic foot of air at standard temperature and pressure assuming average composition weighs approximately 0.0807 lbs or 0.0366 kg 28317cc per cubic foot 28317 divided by (36.6gram /0.161g) equals 124.56 cc of air just about what you would expect on a 150cc with less than 100 percent volumetric filling efficiency
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Post by geh3333 on Jun 12, 2015 22:15:01 GMT -5
Can anyone tell me how much space .161 grams of air and .0916 ml of gas takes up ? The air is the hard part. not if you know 1 cubic foot of air at standard temperature and pressure assuming average composition weighs approximately 0.0807 lbs or 0.0366 kg 28317cc per cubic foot 28317 divided by (36.6gram /0.161g) equals 124.56 cc of air just about what you would expect on a 150cc with less than 100 percent volumetric filling efficiency (Edit) please skip this post , wrong air calculation !! Are you saying 124.56 cc of air is with my calculations then ? So add the fuel and we get what ? If this is the case , then this shows that these scoots come well under carbed or well under jetted , or both.
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Post by geh3333 on Jun 13, 2015 0:12:03 GMT -5
(Edit) please skip this post , wrong air calculation !!
Yeah , I just did the equation. So let me figure in the fuel. Which .0916 grams is .0916 cc , lol. So still about 125cc . now take into consideration that the amount of air I used in the equations was the amount needed for combustion . so its probably a lean mixture if its the exact amount needed for combustion. So let's up the air slightly and try this again.
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Post by geh3333 on Jun 13, 2015 2:28:54 GMT -5
Wow I messed up big ! 14.7 lbs of air to burn 1 lb of gas . I did my math with 1 gallon of gas not 1 lbs. So here we go again. I found that it takes 9,000 gallons of air to burn 1 gallon of gas. So after burning the 1 gallon of gas with 165,000 ignition strokes , take 9,000 ÷ 165,000 is 206.477 ml of air which is 206.477 cc's . now this conversion was with water which is more dense then gasoline . gasoline is pretty close to 75% the density of water . so let's take 75% of 206.477 cc's which is 154. cc's , now add the gas which is .0916 cc's , add 25% for the gas density and we get .1145 cc's + 154. cc's is a total of 154.9545 cc's which can be rounded to 155 cc's . I have a 58.5 bbk which is supposedly 155 cc . so I'm using nearly every bit of the chamber for consumption.
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Post by geh3333 on Jun 13, 2015 3:26:31 GMT -5
Now let's do a calculation of a stock scoot getting mpg and see how many cc's are being filled . again this is not 100% accurate but it should be pretty darn close. Let's make this easy . say your scooting at 42.5 mph at 5500 rpms and your scoot gets mpg . you ride for 2 hr's at a steady 5500 rpms. So 120 min at 5500 RPMS is 660,000 revolutions, and 330,000 ignition strokes. So 1 gallon of gas was used which is 3785.411 ml of gas. Divide 3,785.411 by 330,00 which is .01147 ml per ignition stroke. Now the air consumption. 9,000 gallons of air needed to burn 1 gallon of gasoline. So take 9,000 ÷ 330,000 ignition strokes is .0272727273 gallons of air which is 103.23 cc's now divide by 75% for gas density is 77.4 cc's . wow , now add the fuel amount which is .01437 cc's and we get 77.4 cc , lol. I would say maybe this isn't the right way to do this , but considering these 150cc scoots top out many times around 50mph or so , well this would not surprise me if they are only burning 77.4ccs worth or air and fuel. And considering our pal millsc is hitting 56 mph with a 52mm ( 88cc ) bbk , and is probably using the entire chamber for fuel consumption with the 24mm carb , well this only makes sense. You get a 50c scoot on a good day can hit 40mph . compared to a 150cc scoot that does 55 on a good day. Your tripling the cc's but only gaining 15 mph !! Its probably because these scoots come under carbed and under jetted with restricted airflow , and the chambers are screaming for more air and fuel. Even if we drop the mpg down to 80 or 70 , the amount of cc consumption will be much lower then 150cc .
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Post by geh3333 on Jun 13, 2015 3:37:27 GMT -5
I want every one to remember that I used the exact same calculations with pretty much my exact fuel consumption , and it shows how much more fuel I'm burning and not running too rich , no bogging at any throttle level and hitting what seem to be record speeds for a 58.5 modded scoot . this should give many something to really think about when it comes to how much air and fuel these things can really handle.
We can even use this method to possibly help others with tuning their scoots. Just throw me your average mpg and I can give you a ballpark number of how much fuel your chamber is handling per ignition stroke.
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Post by keikara on Jun 13, 2015 16:16:52 GMT -5
Just filled up today, I only have the uni filter, and my carb is not quite dialed in correctly but, am avg. 56.5 mpg over 162 miles and 3 fill ups. And I know you weren't asking but is costing $0.053 per mile And these calculations are using the mileage off my speedo and using Fuelly to calculate.
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Post by geh3333 on Jun 13, 2015 18:14:28 GMT -5
Just filled up today, I only have the uni filter, and my carb is not quite dialed in correctly but, am avg. 56.5 mpg over 162 miles and 3 fill ups. And I know you weren't asking but is costing $0.053 per mile And these calculations are using the mileage off my speedo and using Fuelly to calculate. Wow that thing is sucking fuel !! Is your speedo accurate ?
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Post by pistonguy on Jun 13, 2015 18:28:32 GMT -5
Relative humidity should effect the weight of the air. As a Diver I should know this, We normally dive with a 80 cu,ft tank at 3,000 psi, it is funny as the tank empties we become more buoyant and have to compensate for this. Most don't realize Air has weight.
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Post by keikara on Jun 13, 2015 18:55:44 GMT -5
Just filled up today, I only have the uni filter, and my carb is not quite dialed in correctly but, am avg. 56.5 mpg over 162 miles and 3 fill ups. And I know you weren't asking but is costing $0.053 per mile And these calculations are using the mileage off my speedo and using Fuelly to calculate. Wow that thing is sucking fuel !! Is your speedo accurate ? No I think its at least 5 mph off was going by a police radar, speedo said 40 and was doing 35 on radar.
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