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Post by rune75 on Mar 28, 2013 10:57:11 GMT -5
Very interesting, I wonder if the black is a battery backup in case the stator fails? Other than the extra green are the pin configuration/wire colors the same as alleyoop's pic above? Try leaving the black one plugged in and disconnect the black w/red and see if it still runs. I'm going to have a dc cdi bike open today. I'll have to compare wire colors. Wire colors are the same. Pin configuration are the same regarding the 4 pins to the right (on the picture). The to pins to the left on the picture are not the same. On my CDI the upper left pin is connected to DC, and the lower left pin is connected to the pickup. If I disconnect the black/red (AC) the scooter stops. So no backup function. |
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Post by chihuahuas on Mar 28, 2013 12:19:02 GMT -5
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Post by alleyoop on Mar 28, 2013 13:45:40 GMT -5
That is what I was saying the CDIs are all the same, the Positions in the Plugs are CONSTANT with respect to what the output powers. The wire colors do not mean a thing the wire colors can be almost any color, pink, black for ground some have green for ground, some use red for power some are multicolor and so on you CANNOT go by the wire colors. The hundreds of factories that make these components use whatever they have at hand and or can get at the cheapest price. Most have a KIllSwitch and the Top Plug on the 2 plug CDI grounds the CDI and does not allow juice to flow to the Coil to fire the Spark Plug.
The way it works is like this:
Now this is for scoots without a FUSE box.
The Red thin wire coming off the positive battery post which has a fuse goes to the KEY SWITCH.
When you turn the KEY ON it then allows the 12vs to flow to the different systems on the scoot.
If you have a DC CDI it sends the 12v to the CDI to power it. So if you take out the battery and or the Battery is bad or disconnected don't expect your motor to start.
If you have a AC CDI there is no wire going to the CDI that carries voltage from the Key Switch. The CDI does not get power until the Flywheel turns and produces electricity which it sends to the CDI to power it.
When you squeeze the brake handle it allows voltage to flow to the Solenoid and to the brake lights. When you press the Start button it Grounds the Solenoid to complete the circuit. The contact inside the Solenoid then passed the 12v from the Solenoids Post that has the RED THICK wire Connected to the Positive Post of the battery to the Other Post of the Solenoid which has a wire connected to the STARTER to activate it.
Hope that helps clear some of it up a little.
Alleyoop
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Post by Abscooters on Mar 28, 2013 14:41:56 GMT -5
According to the diagram from his service manual the black is the switched DC hot. scooterunderground.ca/knowledge/manuals/documents/SYM_Mio50_Service_manual_000.pdf Page 190 Most gy6 ignition wire colors are standard, with the exception of the blue/white and red/white being interchanged. And I wish they would leave the mother earth green instead of sometimes making it black. Usually if they use black for ground it is only the heavier gauge wire coming off of the battery itself to frame and engine, after that it is green. All cdi's do not have the same pin configuration, most common DC and AC ones do. But I have a stack of ten brand new CDI's that I have plugged in to both AC and DC systems and get nothing out of them. Wish someone could tell me what they go to  Had a Kymco in here that had the same plug style and theirs wouldn't work with a standard DC or AC CDI, had to order it from Kymco. Neat Hacksaw trick made it no rev limit though  |
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Post by alleyoop on Mar 28, 2013 15:00:59 GMT -5
Did you ask Kymco what is different from their CDI verses others? That would have been my first question to them. Since your a dealer maybe you can call them up and shed some light on it.
I am talking about your 6 pin CDIs, not some that have 8 pins or anything. Do you know of any of the 6 pin CDIs that have a different configuration that would be nice to know. If you do put up a picture so we can all see which pin outs or in are different.
Alleyoop
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Post by Abscooters on Mar 28, 2013 15:27:49 GMT -5
[replyingto=alleyoop]alleyoop[/replyingto]Kymco would not talk to me as I not a kymco dealer. I had to order kymco parts from other kymco dealers. The 72cc powerpack worked great on it though  I'm sure I could find out if I had the time to track someone down, I just don't see enough kymcos to be worth it. |
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Post by alleyoop on Mar 28, 2013 15:32:19 GMT -5
Oh ok, I will try and get the answer then, there are a few SYM dealers near me:D
Alleyoop
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Post by JR on Mar 28, 2013 22:36:22 GMT -5
Sorry I'm late to the party long day. I also have this manual and two things stand out clearly and the first one is on page 183 of the manual:  This is the trouble shooting for the ignition system and top right corner gives it away on the no spark. Alternator is out of work, add that and the fact earlier the poster said it would run without a battery = Ac type CDI. The one member mentioned the Harley running on a dead battery or no battery, entirely different system. First of all on a scooters wiring and this one is no different without a battery the black wire going to this CDI clearly gets it's voltage from the battery and with no battery or a dead one it has no power and remember he said it would run with the battery disconnected.  Now if you go back to the charging system you'll find the simple 4-pin R/R with the headlights running off of the yellow wire, and the red running to the battery for one purpose, charging the battery. Remove the battery and the 12Vdc loop is broken and the black wire will have no voltage.  If you read in the ignition system section you will see that this scooter has and advanced ignition CDI. I'm trying to find it but if I remember correctly some advanced CDI's have a 12volt dc power source for advancing the timing thus the black 12Vdc feed wire? Another thing to note I have failed to find a Dc type CDI on a single phase stator system and this is just that. All DC type CDI's I've seen are on a 3 phase stator system. If I was a betting man I'd bet you can disconnect the black wire and it'll run but if you really bear down on it'll stumble with the time advance powerless. JR |
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Post by rune75 on Mar 29, 2013 6:57:10 GMT -5
JR, I'm pretty sure you have solved the mystery. This scooter usually starts immediately when I press the startbutton. At one point I disconnected the black wire (DC) from the CDI (I only pulled the black wire not the fuse) and the engine needed a couple of turns before it started. It's also a bit harder to kickstart when I pull the fuse. I thought I was just imagining these things, but now it makes
sense. The advanced timing function seems to
effect the starting ability also.
Thanks for taking time answering my question. All of you.
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..BAD TO THE BONE..
