|
|
Post by geh3333 on Dec 22, 2014 21:40:02 GMT -5
Hey pain this just sorta happened to me . if you read one of my recent past in the fuel line thread . I was having a hard time starting and keeping my scoot running at warm up. I would get white smoke as the scoot would finally start due to excess fuel build up burning off. I noticed a leaking vacuum hose and no more probs. The popping could be a lean condition caused by extra air being sucked in . this will cause hard starts and will also cause the scoot to run better as the rpms rise due to the vacuum getting stronger. What type of fuel delivery do you have . is it gravity , electric pump or vacuum pump ? I have gravity with no vacuum valve . I have a manual shuttoff instead . this is what allowed my scoot to continue to run with a wide open vacuum hose. If you have a gravity fed system with a vacuum valve and a small leak you still may have enough vacuum left to operate at idle but it would cause the problems u r having. |
|
|
|
Post by lain on Dec 22, 2014 21:49:19 GMT -5
Hey pain this just sorta happened to me . if you read one of my recent past in the fuel line thread . I was having a hard time starting and keeping my scoot running at warm up. I would get white smoke as the scoot would finally start due to excess fuel build up burning off. I noticed a leaking vacuum hose and no more probs. The popping could be a lean condition caused by extra air being sucked in . this will cause hard starts and will also cause the scoot to run better as the rpms rise due to the vacuum getting stronger. Besides the vacuum line for the fuel, what other vacuum lines should I look for? I used to have a stock air filter that had a lot of vacuum lines to all sorts of places, but I took that out and I do not really have any vacuum lines left besides the fuel line pump. I guess this would make it easier to diagnose a vacuum issue since I do not have many vacuum lines? I usually check for gas intake by tipping the scoot over to drain some gas out of the carb bowl drain port, then cranking it to see if it gets gas in it again. It has never seemed to not be getting gas. I have however noticed some cracks in the fuel line and over time have shortened the fuel line by about maybe an inch total by cutting it to get rid of the cracks at the ends. Is there a way to check to make sure the pump itself is not the cause? Like, I know it is giving gas, but maybe it is not giving enough fast enough or maybe it is giving too much? When I say pop, I mean the sound of the engine turning over. Like when I hear the very hard to hear pop coming from the combustion chamber I know from hearing that that the spark is igniting something in there. |
|
|
|
Post by lain on Dec 22, 2014 21:51:20 GMT -5
Hey pain this just sorta happened to me . if you read one of my recent past in the fuel line thread . I was having a hard time starting and keeping my scoot running at warm up. I would get white smoke as the scoot would finally start due to excess fuel build up burning off. I noticed a leaking vacuum hose and no more probs. The popping could be a lean condition caused by extra air being sucked in . this will cause hard starts and will also cause the scoot to run better as the rpms rise due to the vacuum getting stronger. What type of fuel delivery do you have . is it gravity , electric pump or vacuum pump ? I have gravity with no vacuum valve . I have a manual shuttoff instead . this is what allowed my scoot to continue to run with a wide open vacuum hose. If you have a gravity fed system with a vacuum valve and a small leak you still may have enough vacuum left to operate at idle but it would cause the problems u r having. I'm not entirely sure, I am more of an electrical guy. If you look in the video you can see a black rubber hose connected to the left side of the intake manifold, which then leads up the side to the top where the tank is, it connects to a pump that is also connected to a rubber fuel line that then leads downwards from there to a petcock which then connects to the carb. Also, not sure if this helps to know, and might point to something, but when I was trying to start it to get it to run to go home it was raining, and it sounded like the engine sounds were dampened. Like it sounded like the spark, when it did spark, was not as strong as usual and the sound sounded sort of damp if that makes sense. It would make spark, the engine would turn once, the lights would flash for that split second then it would continue to turn with no sparking and no lights coming from the meters. Waiting a while in between trying to start it seemed to make it a little stronger but still not enough to start and only a spark here or there every like 10 minutes or so. |
|
|
|
Post by geh3333 on Dec 22, 2014 22:48:30 GMT -5
My phone called you pain instead of lain . lol
|
|
|
|
Post by lain on Dec 23, 2014 2:10:12 GMT -5
Looks like I have a long day ahead of me. I need to check my fuel line, check the vacuum line to the pump for cracks, since I have admittedly never checked it fully, just traced it to see where it went etc. I need to check to see if any wires are loose or maybe corroded, since there has been a lot of salt on the streets lately. Maybe remove the alarm from the ignition pickup wire and rewire it to rule out the alarm causing the issue if all the wires looked good already.
Does the starting hard in the video sound like high compression holding the starter motor back? Or maybe it is just the starter motor being problematic? I had a new starter motor that would start it with a little bit of effort but the teeth of the starter motor got wore down and couldn't grip the bendix anymore. The starter motor in there now is problematic to say the least, and is the original stock starter motor and I have put thousands of miles on this scoot... Not entirely sure how much since my spedo hub broke some time ago but it is around 30k.
Also, when I first installed the BBK, I had to take it out because the compression was too high to even kickstart it, I got a much thicker head gasket when I reinstalled it a couple months ago but maybe I need an even thicker one to be able to not have issues in the cold? I already know I need new rings because when I set the gaps I fudged the math and set them to 0.010 for the upper ring and 0.012 for the lower ring on a 50mm bore. I think they should be 0.008 for the upper and 0.010 for the lower compression rings correct?
How do I remove the fuel line from the tank without all the gas coming out? How do I know if the pump is bad? I get gas into my carb, but how do I check to make sure the gas leaves the carb and enters the engine? I want to fix this asap and make sure it isn't a problem anymore.
|
|
|
|
Post by scooter on Dec 23, 2014 2:41:21 GMT -5
How do I remove the fuel line from the tank without all the gas coming out? How do I know if the pump is bad? I get gas into my carb, but how do I check to make sure the gas leaves the carb and enters the engine? I want to fix this asap and make sure it isn't a problem anymore. When I put a new head gasket on my last scoot, I think I set the timing on the exhaust stroke or something. It turned over but wouldn't start. I put my finger over the spark plug hole and it was getting very little compression if any. I reset the timing and it fired right up. Pull the spark plug out and put the boot on it, and touch the end of it to the engine. Turn the motor over and you should see a spark. |
|
|
|
Post by tvnacman on Dec 23, 2014 7:31:01 GMT -5
watch this videowhat you talking about on your gas tank does it look like this or that ? I notice you stated your more of an electrical guy . Think of the vac hoses in the fuel system as"control" with vac the relays make and fuel flows . Questions ? John |
|
|
|
Post by geh3333 on Dec 23, 2014 9:12:29 GMT -5
watch this videowhat you talking about on your gas tank does it look like this or that ? I notice you stated your more of an electrical guy . Think of the vac hoses in the fuel system as"control" with vac the relays make and fuel flows . Questions ? John It def sounds like a vacuum issue . especially when he said it runs better as he gets going faster . of course it could be something else but I'm def leaning towards a vacuum issue. |
|
|
|
Post by tvnacman on Dec 23, 2014 9:50:44 GMT -5
new fresh hoses and clamps new tee , will not hurt it that is for sure its only a few bucks for hoses and clamps .
John
|
|
|
|
Post by lain on Dec 23, 2014 11:33:36 GMT -5
It seems I only have 1 vacuum line, the line from the engine to the fuel pump that controls the fuel pump, which looks like the second link tvnacman posted. Besides that I have no other vacuum lines. I have no T joints, no vacuum pumps besides the fuel pump, and no fancy emissions devices. I'm about to go outside and check on everything just waiting for the rain to chill out.
|
|
|
|
Post by tvnacman on Dec 23, 2014 12:12:14 GMT -5
is your gas tank above or below the carb ?
One hose from/to your fuel tank ?
vent hole in your gas cap ?
John
|
|
|
|
Post by lain on Dec 23, 2014 13:00:18 GMT -5
is your gas tank above or below the carb ? One hose from/to your fuel tank ? vent hole in your gas cap ? John Look at the video, you can see all of my scoots innards. The tank it above the rear wheel. There is a vent hole inside the cap but i dont see one on the outside but I have never had any issues with vapor lock or anything like that. I do have a hose that leads from the top of the gas tank but it has been cut and tied up since before I got the scoot so I have no idea what it went to. |
|
|
|
Post by tvnacman on Dec 23, 2014 13:55:32 GMT -5
is your gas tank above or below the carb ? One hose from/to your fuel tank ? vent hole in your gas cap ? John Look at the video, you can see all of my scoots innards. The tank it above the rear wheel. There is a vent hole inside the cap but i dont see one on the outside but I have never had any issues with vapor lock or anything like that. I do have a hose that leads from the top of the gas tank but it has been cut and tied up since before I got the scoot so I have no idea what it went to. Can we have a good look at all of the above . Just because something has not been a problem does not mean it is now a problem . I would like to see the connection under the fuel tank . Sometimes dips in the fuel hose on its way to the carb . John |
|
|
|
Post by lain on Dec 23, 2014 16:59:50 GMT -5
I checked everything and think I may have found the problem, but I do not know what is causing it, or maybe my first theory is correct. After taking apart the fuel and vacuum lines, I found all of the hoses to be completely leak free and tight. I removed the alarm from the pickup coil wire to rule that out, no change at all in the symptoms. I got it started twice with a lot of effort and once started it stayed on but even if I turned it off then tried to start it it would go right back to having major issues starting. Then I decided to check the spark plug. I took it out, looked burnt black after the first successful start up, brand new spark plug btw just put it in today. Ran it for about 10 minutes before turning it off and going right back to having issues starting. Brand new spark plug, after idling once for 10 minutes roughly:  So then I took the spark plug out and put the end of the spark plug against the nut my ground wire is connected to and saw no spark while using A7TC 3 electrode spark plug (brand new today), then I tried with my old iridium (CR7HIX) plug and saw a VERY dim red spark that fired consitently red and very dim. And when I say very dim, I was outside with no lights, no sun, turned my light off, and even in the pitch black darkness the spark was VERY dim. I tried 2 ignition coils, the stock black one and the orange racing one, both with the same results. I will post videos once the videos copy and convert because my friend's phone make videos with huge file sizes that won't upload. What could cause a very dim or no spark? I have checked the wires, they all look good. I am thinking maybe it is my CDI like I originally thought? |
|
|
|
Post by tvnacman on Dec 23, 2014 17:52:29 GMT -5
the pick up coil wire while cranking should be about .5vac , the power wire (red/black) should be 30+ vac while cranking .
Take 4 jumper wires , put all 4 ends together , then connect to the following: engine , frame , -coil and negative battery .
check power and pulse at the stator connector and at the cdi plug .
John
|
|
