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Post by dickyh on Nov 9, 2014 8:21:45 GMT -5
I've looked through other post but have not been able to find the info I'm looking for.
I have a new 170cc gy6 scooter and out of the box so to speak, I installed an EFI system before putting it on the road.
My issue is that upon PDI, I took off the CVT cover to replace the belt with a bando as I read that belts from manufacturer are normally inferior and didn't want to deal with a broken belt. Upon inspection, it had a gates belt on it so I thought I was good to go and didn't bother to change it.
After just 50 miles on the scooter and going about 45mph, the belt broke and shredded.
Luckily I have the Bando belt to replace it with but I'm wondering why it broke after only 50 miles. I don't want a repeat performance as it is not FUN to push it home.
Ive taken it apart, cleaned out all of the debris and am getting ready to put on a new belt (well as soon as I can get the variator nut off that is). waiting on a friend with an air impact wrench as my cordless won't take it off.
One thing to note that is on the clutch end the pads seem smooth, which I've read should not be...
The scooter runs great otherwise...
Just trying to figure out why it broke so soon and what may have caused it and what to look for.
Any insight would be greatly appreciated.
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Post by xyshannen on Nov 9, 2014 12:42:04 GMT -5
It's hard to say why it broke..You really didn't give any symptoms prior to it breaking. But sometimes belts do just break so...
When you put your new belt on leave the cover off and run up the RPMs wile the scoot is still on the stand so you can watch how high on the variator the belt climbs. It's not supposed to, but due to what ever reason, a belt will climb too high and slip off of the pulley. If that's is what's happening you may need too add a shim behind the variator bos to keep it from climbing so high. It should only go to about an eight of an inch from the top of the pulley.
Also you should pull apart your clutch and inspect the inner part here the swing arms are. Sometimes material from a shredded belt can get in there and cause problems.
Your clutch pads might be glazed, jut hit them with some sand paper an scuff them up. I forget what causes this but it has to do with improper breaking in of the clutch. Perhaps another member can enlighten us on the does and don'ts of clutch break in.
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Post by alleyoop on Nov 9, 2014 14:06:04 GMT -5
How many miles were on the belt that was on there also how old is the scoot it could be old and parts do deteriorate over time. Also pads smooth means they are glazed and probably were slipping which would also puts stress on belts as well as that creates a lot of heat which is not good for belts. So the reason it shredded could have been caused by a lot of things happening slowly. So sandpaper the glaze off the pads and clean it up and put a new belt Make sure you check the Weights they may be out of place in the variator.
Alleyoop
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Post by dickyh on Nov 9, 2014 17:42:15 GMT -5
Thanks for the replies! The scooter only has 50 miles on it... brand new! It had a gates belt on it, so I'm stumped. I did notice when I took off the cover on the back of the cover there is a small plate which is held on by 4 screws and then tabs from the plate fold over the screws. One of those tabs was sticking up slightly and I'm thinking that maybe that belt was running over that and frayed the belt but no clue... I did manage to clean everything out, put in now rollers (I wanted to anyway), a new Bando belt and started it up without the cover and as far as I can see everything is functioning as it should.(rising and falling with rpms). I'll put some miles on it, pull the cover and see If I can see any wear.
One question I still have is that does the belt actually shred from breaking and flopping around in there or is it literally disintegrating? it might give me a clue to the problem if there is one.
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Post by xyshannen on Nov 9, 2014 18:38:31 GMT -5
lots of times when the belt pops it can get shredded by the fins on the variator. One member actually put his variator cover on backwards...instant belt mulch.
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Post by ricardoguitars on Nov 9, 2014 20:18:16 GMT -5
When my belt broke the other day it turned into dust, just a small piece remained attached to the clutch
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Post by dickyh on Nov 10, 2014 7:14:16 GMT -5
So in my quest to find the possible reasons for belt breakage on my new scooter, I came across and few pages that discuss belt break in. I'm just posting this to let others know, which I didn't know was that there is a break-in period of about 50mi. so that the belts sets in properly.
I haven't been pushing to the limits but I definitely haven't been shy on making her go either. And I'm a big guy 240lbs. so I consider this to "be under load" as they explain it and with the new belt in place, I'll take it a little easier in the beginning...
anyone have comments? I read most of this as it relates to gates belts and their recommendations.
I'm hoping to prevent a repeat performance and not have to push it home... LOL
As a side note when changing out the belt I installed Dr. Pulley 11gram weights in the variator as from what I read, offer better performance. My question is how to know what the right weight is...and adjust accordingly. I have a 170cc engine. Maybe this question should be on a new thread?
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Post by ricardoguitars on Nov 10, 2014 9:51:17 GMT -5
So in my quest to find the possible reasons for belt breakage on my new scooter, I came across and few pages that discuss belt break in. I'm just posting this to let others know, which I didn't know was that there is a break-in period of about 50mi. so that the belts sets in properly. I haven't been pushing to the limits but I definitely haven't been shy on making her go either. And I'm a big guy 240lbs. so I consider this to "be under load" as they explain it and with the new belt in place, I'll take it a little easier in the beginning... anyone have comments? I read most of this as it relates to gates belts and their recommendations. I'm hoping to prevent a repeat performance and not have to push it home... LOL As a side note when changing out the belt I installed Dr. Pulley 11gram weights in the variator as from what I read, offer better performance. My question is how to know what the right weight is...and adjust accordingly. I have a 170cc engine. Maybe this question should be on a new thread? Belts brake mostly by excessive heat, a new belt has to stretch a little, that's the break-in period you are talking about, a fresh, tight belt causes more heat than a "stretched" belt, that could explain your problem. Lighter rollers increase speed but reduce torque, with heavier rollers is the opposite. According to Scrappy Dogs website:
"Rollers are the way you set the engine speed. Lighter weight raise engine speed, heavier weights lower engine speed. Be careful, higher is not always better as you can rev right past your torque curve and just spin out without any thrust. Too heavy a weight and you will be below your torque curve."
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Post by toddmaples on Nov 10, 2014 10:27:32 GMT -5
Some "gates" belts are cheap Chinese knockoffs. Jus'sayin.
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Post by geh3333 on Nov 10, 2014 16:49:47 GMT -5
You either have a problem in the cvt or the gates was a knock off . You'll know soon enough . If it's the cvt your bando will also shred soon . I've never had a gates belt break within 3000 miles . That's even when I had cvt issues and was blowing out v guides due to to much tension caused by the clutch .
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Post by geh3333 on Nov 10, 2014 19:29:23 GMT -5
Actually I've never had a gates belt break ever " I always replace my belt between 2000 and 3000 miles . There is a reason why most shops and auto parts stores carry only gates belts . Even though they are made in china . Like I said before there are some good products that come out of china" some " , at the same time many knock off products and bad products come from china , gates just happens to be one of the good ones .
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Post by seamus26 on Nov 11, 2014 8:39:59 GMT -5
A few weeks ago I had my first belt break right at 2200 miles. I had already had a variator issue (the pulley bushing had disintegrated), so it may have stressed the belt even further. It looked like it had simply exploded at the break.
Thanks for the note about heat. I noticed with the new belt a little bit of "burnt rubber" smell. With the bad weather coming in I should have time to pull the cover and give it a good look. I plan on a pulley kit and possibly a different clutch this winter anyway.
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..BAD TO THE BONE..
