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Post by scooter on Nov 1, 2014 13:09:21 GMT -5
I have a four way petcock pump here, what I'd like to know is, what the heck is the 4th line for? I have googled this a dozen times and can't get a stupid diagram of a 4 way pump with directions. I know one is fuel in, one is fuel out, one is vacuum, but what is the fourth one? Is it a vent? Do I need to connect a check valve to it or run a hose from it to above gas level? Thanks for your help.  |
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Post by dmartin95 on Nov 1, 2014 15:57:20 GMT -5
It's a wobbleator valve, just fill it with 2 oz of blinker fluid and be done with it......  On a more serious note, just taking a guess I would say possibly an vacuum output... Well, not an output, but rather it may allow you to install the pump inline to something else.... For the record, this is just a WAG..... |
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Post by rcq92130 on Nov 1, 2014 16:49:44 GMT -5
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Post by scooter on Nov 1, 2014 17:54:01 GMT -5
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Post by gatekeeper on Nov 1, 2014 18:11:19 GMT -5
Those are typically one vacuum port, one fuel in port and two fuel out ports. I just capped off one of the fuel out ports on the one ebay sent me by mistake and it works fine.
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Post by scooter on Nov 1, 2014 18:19:59 GMT -5
Thank you. I didn't see any fuel coming out of it, although someone had rerouted the lines. They had put the fuel inlet hose onto this forth nipple and it was letting gas flow with the engine off. I put the inlet line back on the inlet nipple, so now fuel only comes out when the engine is turning over, and I just don't know what the 4th nipple is for. I'm assuming it's a vent, although as you can see, it can be used as a petcock bypass if desired.
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Post by rcq92130 on Nov 1, 2014 18:34:37 GMT -5
Completely missed that thread; very interesting.
Ive been using vac test forever - on cars & large cycles; tried on the scooter and was confused by the results. Your tests helped a lot\. You got basically what I was getting - and my thought about the engine valve timing being off, or whatnot, appears to be wrong since, i guess, these things just operate at very small vacuum levels. Surprised the vac reading drops to, basically, zilch at high rpm.
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Post by ccr on Nov 1, 2014 19:13:14 GMT -5
Completely missed that thread; very interesting. Ive been using vac test forever - on cars & large cycles; tried on the scooter and was confused by the results. Your tests helped a lot\. You got basically what I was getting - and my thought about the engine valve timing being off, or whatnot, appears to be wrong since, i guess, these things just operate at very small vacuum levels. Surprised the vac reading drops to, basically, zilch at high rpm. ram air would solve that check this out, its a Yamaha Cygnus/Zuma/BWS engine with a Kymco head on with a ram air box fitted!    |
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Post by scooter on Nov 1, 2014 19:24:54 GMT -5
It seems like that would make the intake lose vacuum. The vacuum goes higher as you restrict the intake air flow. Now you'd not only have an open plenum but a pressurized one. That seems like it would reduce the vacuum by creating positive pressure in the intake.
Looking at it, it doesn't look like it would do much ramming of air, even at 60mph. Maybe I am not understanding the concept.
That is very nice looking metal work BTW.
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Post by ccr on Nov 1, 2014 20:08:45 GMT -5
oh this is a fuel injected engine so it doesn't rely on vacuum pressure.
it's more like forced induction and this is a professional racing scooter that's been made by the Dunler racing team.
if anybody has any ideas on how to recreate this effect using a carburetor i'm all ears. i think a reverse turbocharging effect can be created by altering the valve timing
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Post by scooter on Nov 1, 2014 21:19:55 GMT -5
oh this is a fuel injected engine so it doesn't rely on vacuum pressure. it's more like forced induction and this is a professional racing scooter that's been made by the Dunler racing team. if anybody has any ideas on how to recreate this effect using a carburetor i'm all ears. i think a reverse turbocharging effect can be created by altering the valve timing Like RCQ said, you could switch out the vacuum operated pump for an electric one, and you can use this air ram thing, right? |
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Post by ccr on Nov 1, 2014 22:49:39 GMT -5
in my opinion, anything electronic on a scooter will fail.
scooters are designed to fail, planned obsolescence at it's finest.
is there anyone on this forum that's had no problems with their Chinese scooter at all for 10 years?
i don't think so. I've seen the way they are manufactured, I've thought to myself, this could be made a lot better with this a bit thicker, or this with a metal support through there.
the truth is, it's a scooter at the end of the day. it's not a motorcycle or a car. its service life is only about 5 years and that's why it's so cheap. with the exception of these big maxi scooters like the T max and the Burgman
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Post by scooter on Nov 2, 2014 1:01:29 GMT -5
in my opinion, anything electronic on a scooter will fail. scooters are designed to fail, planned obsolescence at it's finest. is there anyone on this forum that's had no problems with their Chinese scooter at all for 10 years? i don't think so. I've seen the way they are manufactured, I've thought to myself, this could be made a lot better with this a bit thicker, or this with a metal support through there. the truth is, it's a scooter at the end of the day. it's not a motorcycle or a car. its service life is only about 5 years and that's why it's so cheap. with the exception of these big maxi scooters like the T max and the Burgman Yes, I think the price has a lot to do with why they fail and fall apart so easily. If they were better built, they would be Hondas. hehe. (No I have not ridden or even had a close look at a Honda Scooter but their motorcycles are excellent IMO.) I try not to worry about failures too much. They are easy and cheap to fix. So far I have had terrible luck with the CVT, mostly due to buying two of the worst made belts ever and possibly a factory reject variator. I have also replaced two broken spark plug boots and a kill switch that started sticking after just a few months. I assume the racing team's EFI used an electric pump. I don't know how long one will last but for 10-20 dollars, if you get a year out of it I'd say you got a good deal on it. My biggest concern is that an electric pump needs power before the bike is started, so if you have a dead battery, that could be an issue. I'm seriously considering making scooters my next career. People here are broke, they need cheap transport, and these scooters need regular maintenance, or else.  Back to the ram air intake, I wouldn't be afraid to try it. Still, my bike seems to have almost as much power as many of these scooters with upgrades. I think I'll just move up to a bigger bike soon, and hopefully on to a Honda Silverwing or a Suzuki Burgman later. I like the Burgman because it has an electronic CVT and I think that's the only way to go if you want to maximize CVT performance. |
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Post by ccr on Nov 2, 2014 2:22:50 GMT -5
EFI models come with electric fuel pump and no kick start.
if you have battery problems the only way to start it would be to use a long socket through the fan cover and low speed drill.not an impact wrench, because that would just remove the magneto nut.
if you really want to start a scooter business over there you should only deal with Yamaha's Honda's and Vespa's. the rest will probably fail on you soon after you sell them and make you look bad. if you really want to sell Chinese scooters, get some American made parts in them before you send them out.
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Post by surfpick on Nov 2, 2014 7:39:44 GMT -5
I'm seriously considering making scooters my next career. People here are broke, they need cheap transport, and these scooters need regular maintenance, or else. I think that's a wise move. When people realize they have an alternative to high insurance & fuel costs, I think there will be a mass migration to scooters. Even up North people will adapt to Winter scooting. A great set of warm gear still costs a lot less than automobile operating costs. (by the way, 35 degrees here in Central Florida, with a sheet of ice formed on my car  ) Lots of us are not gifted natural mechanics and view the internal combustion engine as magic. You might also be able to charge people to tutor them on maintaining their scooters themselves. Workshops would be a natural method to spawn local clubs. You could also advertise & buy dead scooters cheap from those who tried the lifestyle but gave up. A lot of you scooter whizes on this forum could do this, if you needed a job or extra cash. |
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