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Post by dcustriker on Oct 22, 2014 11:56:45 GMT -5
So I had this problem before and which eventually led to me changing out the carburetor since it eventually would not run. (See Priming the Carburetor on page 2 or 3).
With a brand new carburetor, the scooter is finally firing up and running. However, the original problem is still happening. The scooter dies at the exact same locations on a road going about 45-50 mph. However, at night time, there is no problem at all. The scooter only dies when I am riding. I can put the scooter on the center kickstand and rev it all I want without any issue (except for one time my spark plug boot came loose, of which I thought may have been the issue, but apparently not). Here's a few things I've noticed:
1.) Adjusting the carb is quite difficult. I can hear no changes in the RPMs as I turn the Air/Fuel mixture screw. However, I do notice at times that the rear tire begins moving when changing the ratio. I went by the speed of the wheel when adjusting. 2.) I've rode the scooter on the same road with different settings (Air/Fuel). The scooter continues to die in the exact locations. 3.) The new carburetor starts up much better after shutdown than the older one, which used to take 10-15 seconds of cranking. 4.) After the first shutdown yesterday, I reduced my speed to 40 mph. I noticed it having hesitations around the same point it usually does. It eventually caught back up and went a little further before it shutdown again. 5.) I currently have the carburetor set around 2 full turns counter clockwise from being all the way in. I feel as if the scooter is going through gas quicker than it should, however thats hard to tell since I've not been able to get through a tank of gas without any issues yet. 6.) I have searched and searched for vacuum leaks, but have found nothing.
I was wondering if any of you had any input in this. I'm concerned that whatever issue I am having originally screwed my initial carburetor. I didn't dig into it since the screw heads were cut off from the factory and just replaced it with a new one. I am changing the CDI box and Ignition coil as soon as they come in the mail. Could this be a spark issue? I have noticed a rust spot on the spark plug boot, and it did come loose while revving up the engine. The spark plug is also difficult to actually get it to fit tightly on the plug. I'm just not sure if the temperature would have much of an impact on that though (although there is more moisture in the air at night as I come out to a scooter with condensation gathered on it). Second thought was valve adjustment and perhaps the pulses were not getting enough fuel to the carb bowls, but i'm not sure if I would see an increase in gas consumption then (If I am having an increase that is).
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Post by xyshannen on Oct 22, 2014 15:50:40 GMT -5
What kind of scooter is this and did it do the cutout thing before the new carb?
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Post by dcustriker on Oct 22, 2014 16:13:50 GMT -5
Yes it did the exact same thing before the new carb. It's a 2014 TaoTao Palladin CY-150.
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Post by alleyoop on Oct 22, 2014 16:48:20 GMT -5
Motors produce more power when they are lean and the air is cool. Motors in hot weather do not run at their best, motors in hot weather will always loose some power. So it makes sense that you say it runs best at night(or after it cools down).
So the best you can do is find the best setting of the fuel mixture to run in hotter weather and enjoy a little more power in the evening when it cools off some. Alleyoop
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Post by scooter on Oct 22, 2014 16:52:56 GMT -5
So I had this problem before and which eventually led to me changing out the carburetor since it eventually would not run. (See Priming the Carburetor on page 2 or 3). With a brand new carburetor, the scooter is finally firing up and running. However, the original problem is still happening. The scooter dies at the exact same locations on a road going about 45-50 mph. However, at night time, there is no problem at all. The scooter only dies when I am riding. I can put the scooter on the center kickstand and rev it all I want without any issue (except for one time my spark plug boot came loose, of which I thought may have been the issue, but apparently not). Here's a few things I've noticed: Only rides well at night, eh? Sounds like a classic case of Scooter Vampires. Have you considered avoiding those locations? They may be haunted.
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Post by alleyoop on Oct 22, 2014 17:04:44 GMT -5
He also says it happens at the same location, so maybe that location is going up a hill and if it is a gravity fed fuel system gas starvation is possible, liquids do not flow well up hill Alleyoop
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Post by william42 on Oct 22, 2014 18:37:05 GMT -5
I had a similar issue when my scooter was brand new in March of this year. I figured out that the float bowl was running dry when I ran at WOT. So I just never ran at WOT and I never had the problem. But now that I have just over 2,000 miles on it I can run at WOT all day and it runs just fine. It just needed to get broke in I think and gain some "wiggle room".
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Post by dcustriker on Oct 26, 2014 10:22:52 GMT -5
Someone mentioned possibly having an overheating problem. Do these engines have something on them that shuts off the engine of it reaches a particular temperature?
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Post by scooter on Oct 26, 2014 11:24:26 GMT -5
Someone mentioned possibly having an overheating problem. Do these engines have something on them that shuts off the engine of it reaches a particular temperature? Yes. A melting point.
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Post by urbanmadness on Oct 26, 2014 11:29:39 GMT -5
Ok, have you adjusted the valves on the bike? It will help with the fuel consumption and in general make it run more consistent.
As for the other problem, with it dying sometimes... is it while running wide open throttle?
On some of these bikes, when you run at wide open throttle, you will have very little or no vacuum. If you have a vacuum fuel pump, it sometimes won't be able to keep up because it doesn't have enough vacuum and the bike will just die after running a mile or two. I've even seen some bikes close a vacuum pet cock at WOT too.
Here is how to test.... when you feel it start to die, close the throttle for about a second or two, then slowly open it back up and see if it comes back.
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Post by scooter on Oct 26, 2014 11:49:57 GMT -5
On some of these bikes, when you run at wide open throttle, you will have very little or no vacuum. I have heard this before. How is this possible. One would assume the engine would have more vacuum as the engine revs higher. What's going on there? (Edit: Thank you for your replies. I also found this page www.linnbenton.edu/auto/perform/vacuum.html helpful. It mentions a key thing about the system. When the throttle is closed, the vacuum is working against a closed throttle plate, essentially making a vacuum in a closed chamber, but when the throttle is open, especially wide open, there is a giant 30mm hole in our "chamber". There is little to hold the vacuum in any more at this point, so even if it's sucking ten times the amount of air, there's little to hold it for the vacuum gauge to read. Duh. This would explain why so many of us have problems running at wide open throttle, with our vacuum powered fuel pumps, where the engine is starved for fuel. The engine literally runs out of gas. It's very important to have a good working pump and no vacuum leaks.)
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Post by alleyoop on Oct 26, 2014 12:36:05 GMT -5
No at higher revs the motors create less vacuum reason is due to the speed of the piston moving up and down and vacuum is only created on the down stroke. So due to the speed of movement up and down no time to create strong vacuum. Take floating valves same theory to high rpms and or weak springs the valves will float and not have a chance to really close and seal. Alleyoop
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Post by dcustriker on Oct 26, 2014 15:24:07 GMT -5
I haven't done the valve adjustment yet. It was 82 out today and I had the problem occurring a few times while driving it. I did not have the throttle wide open and only went about 35-40 mph. When I closed the throttle, the bike did come back to life, then would begin hesitating about 1/4-1/2 mile later. This time the bike never shut off on me though, just hesitating, release throttle, come back to life.
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Post by xyshannen on Oct 26, 2014 18:12:45 GMT -5
Different bikes at different sea levels respond differently. The HP your engine creates has an effect on when this happens. For instance, my stock bike did this if I went at 45 MPH for more than a few minutes. Then I added a performance cdi with hot coil and an iridium plug, a high flow exhaust, and a high flow air filter setup. I was then able to do 50 MPH all day but at 51MPH I would start cutting out. Now with my current setup I can run 60 mph at a much higher RPM before this happens. If I go to a heavier roller weight in my variator I should be able to cruise at a higher speed at a lower RPM before it cuts out.
Some members say replacing the fuel pump with a better one will fix it. One has had success. I'm waiting to hear if the another member has success before I try it. My thoughts on this fix is, if it's a vacuum problem then putting on a better vacuum powered pump wont fix the problem. I'm thinking nothing short of relocate your fuel tank to above the carb or adding an electric pump will fix the problem.
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