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Post by william42 on Oct 11, 2014 21:36:29 GMT -5
My car is 26 years old, has just over 200,000 miles on it, and gets 20 MPG. I make a trip to Wisconsin twice a year and cover 1,500 miles and given my cars’ age and miles I wanted to save what life she has left in her for my trips home. So I was in the market for alternate transportation for my daily commute. I wasn’t even thinking about a scooter but somehow stumbled upon them while checking out vehicles on-line.
I had a Honda Express in my youth and remember how much fun it was to ride and it also made economical and environmental sense to get a scooter. I don’t do much driving aside from going to work and living in northern Mississippi I could ride it all year long. And at an average 74 MPG I’m making a difference with my carbon footprint.
I’ve always been the kind of guy that went around turning off lights, etc. doing my part to save as much as the earths limited precious natural resources as possible. Or at least not waste them fragrantly. So getting a scooter made sense, and I got one.
I’ve been using this site since March of this year (2014) because of some initial bugs that came with my new scooter, to which the help was invaluable. Thank you! But now I’d like to pose the question as to why you bought your scooter.
I tend to stick to the thread that most pertains to my machine (150 cc air cooled) and I read quite a bit about folks modifying their machines by removing the emission control system, or wanting to get more power from their engine, and so forth, all of which, in my opinion, would lower the MPG and defeat the purpose of getting the most they could out of a gallon of gas.
I kept my machine like it was when I got it. Stock. I now have 1,800 miles on it and she gets 74 MPG. She has a little more get-up-and-go now that its well broke in and the last tank of gas I put her to the test and ran her hard to see what her limits were. That riding hard- fast off the mark, and topping her rpms and speed, lowered my mileage by 16 MPG. I’ll not be doing that again!
So I was just wondering why you bought your scooter. Just because it’s a fun ride? Because it was cheap and all you could afford? To lower your carbon footprint like me? Or maybe some other reason? And also, for what purpose did you modify it?
Just for curiosity sake- Thanks…
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Post by spidergoat813 on Oct 11, 2014 23:50:36 GMT -5
I've always had motorcycles, two wheels has been something I've loved for as long as I can remember. I bought a scooter for my wife so maybe she'd go along with me on some rides and when another deal to buy one came up to good to pass on I bought myself a scooter too. While I own a VRod my speed craving is easily taken care of BUT I do like how quiet my scooter is and how easy it is to get around on. The fact that my wife and I can have our fun little hipster date night out on our scooters is something that's just plain fun. While I'll never give up owning "real" motorcycles I don't want to part with my scooter either. I honestly have more fun and I'm sure that's due to the fact that it's something our kids can do with us (we have a 5 and 8 year old) one can ride with momma and one with me. It makes doing family things that much more fun, like going for donuts, to the park, or to the lake to go swimming. Hands down they're just plain fun!!!
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Post by oldchopperguy on Oct 11, 2014 23:57:18 GMT -5
William42,
Interesting question! Years ago, I always had a bike of some kind, but always a big bike (preferably a Harley chopper). Then, some 30+ years ago my last Harley got stolen. I couldn't afford another, and depressed economy destroyed me financially. So I got into "survival" mode for decades.
Now, old age and arthritis keeps me off big cycles, and I discovered just how nice modern scooters are! Seven years ago, I got a Chinese 150 and learned how to keep it running. I enjoyed it for the same reasons you speak of. Great mileage, good all-round transportation and a lot of fun.
Recently, local surface streets have been changed radically, increasing the speed needed to safely run with traffic. The old 150 was no longer safe. So... I traded it in on a used Kymco 250, keeping the flat-floor, step-through design, and keeping the similar size and handling to my old 150. This old scoot actually gives over 90mph mileage, and rides much like the old 150, but it will run comfortably up to 70+ mph. THAT is STILL a little slow when traffic gets frisky, but is generally OK on the freeways. Even though I'm used to big motorcycles, I have to admit I absolutely LOVE this old, worn 250...
As for my old 150, I did many of the typical mods, which did improve performance some. From more than six years experience, these are the ones which did the most for my 150... A free-flowing UNI air-filter with richer carb-jetting and needle "tweaking". A no-rev-limit CDI. A Japanese Bando coil and iridium plug. A performance variator, with DILLIGENT experimentation on the roller-weights (turned out to be a mix of 3 each of different weights). And finally, the BEST mod was a full one-inch-inside-diameter exhaust header.
That's about it... These 150's put out really decent horsepower stock, but can be improved in driveability through some simple mods, while gaining a few mph top speed. Personally, I would not do extensive hop-ups like big-bore cylinder, etc. It's just more practical to go up in size to a scooter with a larger engine.
A good example is the Kymco "People 200" which is really only a GY6 type 160 size motor. Still, it outperforms most heavily-modded 150's by a good margin, with strong acceleration and a top-speed near 70 mph.
So why do I ride a scooter? They're affordable, fun, and weather permitting, great transportation.
Ride safe!
Leo in Texas
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Post by xyshannen on Oct 12, 2014 0:44:26 GMT -5
In 2006 I was diagnosed with end stage renal failure. So down on my luck, out of a very lucrative job, on disability ( I traveled for a living and that becomes hard when you have to be tied to a machine 3 days a week), I could no longer afford my 500 a month car payment. So I did what I could, I built an electric bike. This bike would do over 40 mph for almost 40 miles on a single charge. I rode this bike all over town for the next 7 or so years. Then after many a weird conversations regarding first dates and ride situations, I had enough and decided to look into a scooter. The 150 or a beat up 250 platform being all I could afford, I went with a 150.
Wile you may be against mods for gas milage reasons. Those reasons in many cases are wrong. Doing basic mods like a free flow exhaust system, a free flow air filter and intake, a performance CDI along with a better spark plug and a hotter ignition coil, all help fuel economy. Sure your scooter will be able to shovel gas through it faster hurting your MPG, but in most cases that's only if you tend to take advantage of the increased pep and "play" with your throttle more. If you drive in a gas saving manor you should actually have better MPG. Think about it. If your engine doesn't have to waste energy pulling and pushing fuel through it, it operates a lot more efficient getting more go per drop of gas than a scooter that has to work against the restrictiveness of stock components, wasting fuel to get the same result.
But all that aside I'm building the crap out of my scoot to in essence get the HP of a stock 250+cc (in all actuality probably way more CCs) But to still have really good MPG. When done I'll have a scoot that's capable of hanging with the big boys, but when driven sparingly have the gas milage of a 150cc.
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Post by oldchopperguy on Oct 12, 2014 1:45:17 GMT -5
Xyshannen,
You hit on something important here! You CAN increase, or decrease your mileage considerably with nothing but your riding habits.
With my old aircooled 150, I could nudge 75 mpg when traffic was forgiving, and I could stay under 50 mph. If I had to get up to top speed quick, and stay there, it might drop to 55-60 mpg.
With my "new" old '07 250, in most traffic, I can start up smartly, then quickly back off the throttle and let the variator do all the work up to 55-60 mph or so... (The old water-weasel thumper motor has FABULOUS and enjoyable low-end torque... LOL!) A tank full ridden THIS way will reward me with around 95mpg! If I have to run the freeway at 70+ and/or run with really aggressive city traffic where I'm thrashing it, constantly on the gas, I'll get around 70-75 mpg. THAT is a lot of difference!
I make a real effort to use the variator more than the throttle if possible. Doing that, with a mix of 45 mph city, and 70 mph freeway riding, averages me around  - mpg. I do think a watercooled engine may be a little easier on gas than an aircooled one, but the theory is still valid.
Something definitely to consider!
Ride safe,
Leo
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Post by Paladin on Oct 12, 2014 6:59:57 GMT -5
Bottom line? I HATE being in a cage. I am far more comfortable cold and wet on a bike than being warm and dry locked inside a steel cage. I always preferred smaller bikes, biggest was the Savage 650 (but still small and light, just 380 pounds.)
Never cared for the looks of a step-through "scooter." In '64 others got a Honda Cub, I got a Sport 50. In '04 looking for a bike I looked the super scooters. Civilized, practical, but I couldn't see myself on one. In '12, retired, looking for a bike, knees complaining, I looked at the scooters. Hmph. Still ugly, but it was a lot easier to step through than swinging a leg 30 inches up and over. Looked at the 147.5cc Stella and the 150.5cc Vespa. Stella far better, carries a spare wheel, manual transmission, but is a non-freeway-legal motor-driven cycle while the Vespa is freeway legal.
So I rented one. Twist-n-Go. Weird! Took a half hour to get use to it, on streets, up doing 60 mph! Whoa! Went on the freeways, kept up with traffic, actually passing the slower vehicles. Stopped by NoHo to look at the Wolf 150.... and I didn't. I looked at it and I didn't want to swing over the seat. I LIKED just stepping through and onto the scooter. So I got the Vespa. After 2 years / 12,000 miles I still like the scooter. Have charted all gasoline and have averaged 67+ mpg, with over 3,000 miles on the freeways. Just did a trip last month to Lone Pine, 470 miles and 75+ mpg.
But the bottom line, like oldchopperguy, the reason I got the scooter was AGE.
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Post by surfpick on Oct 12, 2014 9:36:03 GMT -5
A couple of years ago, google demoted my link. I can no longer afford to properly maintain The Night Train Selling her next week.  |
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Post by wheelbender6 on Oct 12, 2014 9:51:00 GMT -5
I began riding two wheelers again to save gas and save miles on my truck. You can ride almost year round in the Houston area.
-I chose a scooter so that my wife could ride with me (on her own scoot). She was able to shift OK at the MSF course but she prefers twist-n-go machines.
-Another reason I chose a 125cc scoot is because it is pretty easy to load them in my truck bed and take them to the beach or hill country.
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Post by xyshannen on Oct 12, 2014 10:20:53 GMT -5
oldchopperguy Leo you also make a good point that I forgot to mention in my explanation of modding. The bigger 115mm face on the 150cc Variator allows your scoot to travel at higher speeds (and now that you have increased your HP through bolt on mods it can without hesitation) at a lower RPM increasing your gas milage. LOL at the age thing. I feel for you my friend.
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Post by xyshannen on Oct 12, 2014 10:24:38 GMT -5
oldchopperguy Leo you also make a good point that I forgot to mention in my explanation of modding. The bigger 115mm face on the 150cc Variator allows your scoot to travel at higher speeds (and now that you have increased your HP through bolt on mods it can without hesitation) at a lower RPM increasing your gas milage. LOL at the age thing. I feel for you my both. |
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Post by oldchopperguy on Oct 12, 2014 15:05:57 GMT -5
Bottom line? I HATE being in a cage. I am far more comfortable cold and wet on a bike than being warm and dry locked inside a steel cage. I always preferred smaller bikes, biggest was the Savage 650 (but still small and light, just 380 pounds.)
Never cared for the looks of a step-through "scooter." In '64 others got a Honda Cub, I got a Sport 50. In '04 looking for a bike I looked the super scooters. Civilized, practical, but I couldn't see myself on one. In '12, retired, looking for a bike, knees complaining, I looked at the scooters. Hmph. Still ugly, but it was a lot easier to step through than swinging a leg 30 inches up and over. Looked at the 147.5cc Stella and the 150.5cc Vespa. Stella far better, carries a spare wheel, manual transmission, but is a non-freeway-legal motor-driven cycle while the Vespa is freeway legal.
So I rented one. Twist-n-Go. Weird! Took a half hour to get use to it, on streets, up doing 60 mph! Whoa! Went on the freeways, kept up with traffic, actually passing the slower vehicles. Stopped by NoHo to look at the Wolf 150.... and I didn't. I looked at it and I didn't want to swing over the seat. I LIKED just stepping through and onto the scooter. So I got the Vespa. After 2 years / 12,000 miles I still like the scooter. Have charted all gasoline and have averaged 67+ mpg, with over 3,000 miles on the freeways. Just did a trip last month to Lone Pine, 470 miles and 75+ mpg.
But the bottom line, like oldchopperguy, the reason I got the scooter was AGE.
Paladin,
You REALLY summed-up my story to a "T"... Only difference with me is the "wet" part... Cheesh, I hate riding in the rain... or SNOW... But to my great surprise, the GIVI windshield on old "Minnie Mouse" even cured the "cold" part! Now, I do ride all-year... EXCEPT in the rain... LOL!
Like you, I never liked the look of step-through scooters. Then, like you, age-related factors made it VERY hard to climb onto anything else. Hmmmm............. Now, these girly-frame scooters are mighty appealing to this old geezer!
Yesterday, my knees got SO bad, I could NOT even stand up and step off the mouse. I had to drag a foot over the floor, turn my whole nasty self "side-saddle" and stand up that way. Nobody can understand that kind of stuff unless he or she experiences it. And I wouldn't wish it on anyone.
Pushing 70 (I'm 68 this month) I'm learning first-hand why old folks do things so differently from young ones... But, with some creativity, one CAN still DO them... just differently. When I get on the road on the old scooter, I lean back, fully relax, and enjoy the wind, the smell of a steakhouse as I drive by and so on. In a cage, I'm always a little nervous, and, well... "cagey"... LOL! But on 2 wheels, suddenly everything is right with the world. It must be similar to how horse-lovers feel when riding their 4-footed pals.
While I can't realistically climb onto a big bike now, I'm just glad I can still crawl onto a scooter! Sorta makes my glass feel "half-full" instead of "half-empty"... Modern scooters, with their twist-n-go controls are good for anyone, but for us aging warriors, they are fantastic!
Ride safe, ride long!
Leo
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Post by oldchopperguy on Oct 12, 2014 15:23:21 GMT -5
Xyshannen,
Thanks! You're right about the larger-surface variator allowing a slightly higher speed through full belt travel. I got about 3 mph better myself, but... While its apart, I'd strongly recommend you try replacing the rollers with sliders.
The wedge-shape of sliders allow FULL opening and closing of the variator, in theory at least, improving BOTH acceleration AND top-end. I had a set of sliders ready to try when I came upon the Kymco, and traded the 150 before trying them. I gave them to the dealer with the old 150, and he said the buyer installed them and was very pleased.
The whole design-theory of sliders just seems "right" to me. Rollers only "push" against the variator at the CENTER of the rollers, while sliders "push" their entire height, forcing full opening and closing. That could equate to nearly 1/4" of added belt travel!
Any riders with slider experience, please chime in... Alleyoop maybe?
I really wish I would have installed the sliders on my 150 so I could have compared them to rollers. I may well replace the rollers on my old 250 next season with sliders to see what, if any difference they make. With 14K miles on the original rollers, they probably should be replaced anyway... At least it's a good excuse!
With your new whitewall rear-tire being slightly smaller diameter than the original, you're primed and ready to explore ALL the potential benefits of the higher rpm potential of your modded engine! Woo Hoo! Ain't scoottin' a hoot? For fifty-bucks, or maybe a hundred, you can do mods that cost thousands on a car... SWEET!
Ride safe, and please do post pix of the new whitewalls soon!
Leo
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Post by xyshannen on Oct 12, 2014 15:37:36 GMT -5
Xyshannen,
Thanks! You're right about the larger-surface variator allowing a slightly higher speed through full belt travel. I got about 3 mph better myself, but... While its apart, I'd strongly recommend you try replacing the rollers with sliders. Yup Leo that's on my list of "TO DOs" I just now have to play with roller weights (they are cheaper) to now figure out what's best with my new mods. The old girl is in pieces and I'm having a hard time deciding if I want to wait to put it back together next month with a stroker crank added or just put it back together now and eat the cost of a new cylinder jug next month when I put in the stroker. Not to mention the work involved in tearing it apart and putting it back together twice. On the old age tip...You know, with all my medical issues, I am really grateful that I still have the benefits of being relatively young (37) and not having all of those problems on top of my current issues. I can say one thing I love about my scoot is the relaxed position the old skewl type handle bars have.. I can ride for hours with the only pain I feel coming from a numb bum. You know pics will come when it's all back together! |
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Post by wheelbender6 on Oct 12, 2014 16:39:18 GMT -5
"I've always had motorcycles, two wheels has been something I've loved for as long as I can remember." -spidergoat813
_I have always been doing something on two wheels. Rode a little dual sport motorcycle when I was in high school. _Started cycling when running wore out my knees.
_Got a mountain bike when I moved to CA in the 80s. I still ride mountain bikes.
_Motorized one of my bicycles around 2007. Rode motorized bicycles until 2013.
_Bought 125cc scooters in 2013 after moving to an area where the roads were not suitable for a motorized bicycle.
_Maybe one reason I love the scooter so much is that I compare it to the contraptions I have ridden, like bicycles and motorized bicycles, rather than big motorcycles.
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Post by spandi on Oct 12, 2014 19:22:17 GMT -5
The weather. (and unnecessary waste) Here in southern California it's sunny and warm all year round. (except for the welcomed diversion of rain in the winter months) Why in the world would anyone be diving a gas guzzling monstrosity like an SUV in a near perfect climate is beyond me.  |
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mpg. I do think a watercooled engine may be a little easier on gas than an aircooled one, but the theory is still valid.
