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Post by tt150 on Mar 13, 2015 20:31:08 GMT -5
Hey guys. This is my first post here. I have a Paladin 150 also, with the same issue. This is the only related thread that comes up on a google search. I'm an auto master tech. I bought my 150 off a friend. It's a 2012 and at 550 miles it also stopped running. I did a few checks and found it starts right up with some carb cleaner, and it was not getting fuel. I took the advice of the member on this thread who did the electric pump conversion and installed a 2-4 psi electric pump. It definitely gets fuel now, but it was pouring out the overflow on the carb, so I figured the bowl float was gummed up. Pulled the bowl (this carb uses break away screws on the bowl btw), and it was totally corroded inside from sitting with no fuel in it. I cleaned it all up and cleaned out all the passages and put it back together. It still pours gas out the overflow, so now trying to figure out if the pump is too much or not... But here's a few observations about the info on this thread, and some questions. First off... it seems there was a communication issue in this thread about the location of the lines on the tank. They ARE on the top. The picture of the tank the original poster put up, is actually upside down. Those two lines are on the top of the tank. Second, I'm a little confused on the two gas lines that go to the carb. One is obviously the feed line from the pump. I'm not sure what the other is... If you look at the picture below, you see the fuel feed line on the top, and a second line on the bottom with a spring on it...  Now look at this pic, and you see the bottom line listed as a drain line...  Now here's my confusion. In the second pic, it makes sense as a drain line, because there is a drain screw in the bowl next to it. However, on the 150 carb, there is no drain screw, it's just blank, and the fitting on the bottom of the bowl that the hose goes on, is open inside the bowl. And that hose with the spring on it that attaches to it, just points down towards the ground. So basically...if you put fuel in the bowl, shouldn't it just pour out that drain line? That's what made sense to me when I had it apart, so when it put it back together I put the feed line to the bottom fitting. Thoughts?? |
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Post by tvnacman on Mar 13, 2015 20:44:16 GMT -5
the lower line is your drain line at the end you have the drain bowl screw. It is on the hose not on the bowl itself. Are you spilling/leakng fuel?
John
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Post by tt150 on Mar 13, 2015 20:51:09 GMT -5
the lower line is your drain line at the end you have the drain bowl screw. It is on the hose not on the bowl itself. Are you spilling/leakng fuel? John You're right John....I feel kinda foolish for not looking at the other end of that drain hose, lol. I put the fuel lines back the way they should be, and with the electric pump, she runs now  |
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Post by geh3333 on Mar 13, 2015 20:52:47 GMT -5
Hey guys. This is my first post here. I have a Paladin 150 also, with the same issue. This is the only related thread that comes up on a google search. I'm an auto master tech. I bought my 150 off a friend. It's a 2012 and at 550 miles it also stopped running. I did a few checks and found it starts right up with some carb cleaner, and it was not getting fuel. I took the advice of the member on this thread who did the electric pump conversion and installed a 2-4 psi electric pump. It definitely gets fuel now, but it was pouring out the overflow on the carb, so I figured the bowl float was gummed up. Pulled the bowl (this carb uses break away screws on the bowl btw), and it was totally corroded inside from sitting with no fuel in it. I cleaned it all up and cleaned out all the passages and put it back together. It still pours gas out the overflow, so now trying to figure out if the pump is too much or not... But here's a few observations about the info on this thread, and some questions. First off... it seems there was a communication issue in this thread about the location of the lines on the tank. They ARE on the top. The picture of the tank the original poster put up, is actually upside down. Those two lines are on the top of the tank. Second, I'm a little confused on the two gas lines that go to the carb. One is obviously the feed line from the pump. I'm not sure what the other is... If you look at the picture below, you see the fuel feed line on the top, and a second line on the bottom with a spring on it... Now look at this pic, and you see the bottom line listed as a drain line... Now here's my confusion. In the second pic, it makes sense as a drain line, because there is a drain screw in the bowl next to it. However, on the 150 carb, there is no drain screw, it's just blank, and the fitting on the bottom of the bowl that the hose goes on, is open inside the bowl. And that hose with the spring on it that attaches to it, just points down towards the ground. So basically...if you put fuel in the bowl, shouldn't it just pour out that drain line? That's what made sense to me when I had it apart, so when it put it back together I put the feed line to the bottom fitting. Thoughts?? First , did rcq19 recommend the the electric fuel pump ? If so that was the first mistake . not buying the electric fuel pump but listening to him . if I would have made the recommendation there would have been no mistake. Next , you are saying you connected the fuel line to the drain output right . the drain line should have a screw valve at the end to keep the fuell from flowing out . most of the stock carbs have no drain screw built I. To the cast. I have an aftermarket pumper carb that has both. Where is the fuel leaking from ?,is it leaking from the actually fuel input on the carb ? PS. I was just kidding about rcq, but don't tell him |
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Post by geh3333 on Mar 13, 2015 20:56:49 GMT -5
the lower line is your drain line at the end you have the drain bowl screw. It is on the hose not on the bowl itself. Are you spilling/leakng fuel? John You beat me to it !!! I accidentally left the page and lost my post before I got to send it . I had to go back and do it over , and came in second again. |
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Post by tt150 on Mar 13, 2015 20:59:37 GMT -5
Hey guys. This is my first post here. I have a Paladin 150 also, with the same issue. This is the only related thread that comes up on a google search. I'm an auto master tech. I bought my 150 off a friend. It's a 2012 and at 550 miles it also stopped running. I did a few checks and found it starts right up with some carb cleaner, and it was not getting fuel. I took the advice of the member on this thread who did the electric pump conversion and installed a 2-4 psi electric pump. It definitely gets fuel now, but it was pouring out the overflow on the carb, so I figured the bowl float was gummed up. Pulled the bowl (this carb uses break away screws on the bowl btw), and it was totally corroded inside from sitting with no fuel in it. I cleaned it all up and cleaned out all the passages and put it back together. It still pours gas out the overflow, so now trying to figure out if the pump is too much or not... But here's a few observations about the info on this thread, and some questions. First off... it seems there was a communication issue in this thread about the location of the lines on the tank. They ARE on the top. The picture of the tank the original poster put up, is actually upside down. Those two lines are on the top of the tank. Second, I'm a little confused on the two gas lines that go to the carb. One is obviously the feed line from the pump. I'm not sure what the other is... If you look at the picture below, you see the fuel feed line on the top, and a second line on the bottom with a spring on it... Now look at this pic, and you see the bottom line listed as a drain line... Now here's my confusion. In the second pic, it makes sense as a drain line, because there is a drain screw in the bowl next to it. However, on the 150 carb, there is no drain screw, it's just blank, and the fitting on the bottom of the bowl that the hose goes on, is open inside the bowl. And that hose with the spring on it that attaches to it, just points down towards the ground. So basically...if you put fuel in the bowl, shouldn't it just pour out that drain line? That's what made sense to me when I had it apart, so when it put it back together I put the feed line to the bottom fitting. Thoughts?? First , did rcq19 recommend the the electric fuel pump ? If so that was the first mistake . not buying the electric fuel pump but listening to him . if I would have made the recommendation there would have been no mistake. Next , you are saying you connected the fuel line to the drain output right . the drain line should have a screw valve at the end to keep the fuell from flowing out . most of the stock carbs have no drain screw built I. To the cast. I have an aftermarket pumper carb that has both. Where is the fuel leaking from ?,is it leaking from the actually fuel input on the carb ? PS. I was just kidding about rcq, but don't tell him I won't say anything if you don't, lol. It's fixed now. I never looked at the other end of the drain. Now I see it's blocked at the end. I switched the lines back around and she's running now |
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Post by rcq92130 on Mar 13, 2015 21:22:29 GMT -5
the lower line is your drain line at the end you have the drain bowl screw. It is on the hose not on the bowl itself. Are you spilling/leakng fuel? John You're right John....I feel kinda foolish for not looking at the other end of that drain hose, lol. I put the fuel lines back the way they should be, and with the electric pump, she runs now Hey TT Pay no attention to geh. he is a known subversive, overall mean guy, and Obama supporter. A few things about both your carb and your electric pump. 1. Keep in mind the electric pump does only the same thing the girlie-man vacuum pump does, only more reliably. Presuming it is working properly, it simply provides a constant stream of fuel pressurized at 2 to 4 psi. Same as the old style pumps. 2. The fact fuel was running out "the overflow" is not clear. If it was running out the DRAIN hose, and you have that sorted out, no problem. If it was running out the intake of the carb it's not OK. 3. The part that regulates fuel getting INTO the carb isn't the electric (or vacuum) pump, but, rather the needle valve inside the bowl of the carb. Your carb bowl was 'all gummed up" - presumably because the scooter was sitting for a while and the fuel in the bowl evaporated, leaving residue behind. The right thing is a thorough cleaning --- BUT ALSO A REPLACEMENT OF THE NEEDLE VALVE. 4. Just in case, the fuel in the bowl should rise to, and automatically stay at, a very specific level. The needle valve, connected to the floats, allows fuel in then the floats drop down (not enough fuel in the bowl) and shuts off the fuel supply when the level rises to the proper level (again, done by the needle valve). If the needle valve is worn (or the valve seat gummed up) fuel will either not get in, or keep getting in when it should be stopped. Did you change the needle valve and clean it's seat? Also - a carb overhaul includes setting the float/needle valve height (the point when it shuts off the fuel supply), which is set by bending the float tine the pushes on the needle valve so it shuts off at the right height. The "right height" is different for different carbs (check the carb manufacturer). FYI - I just noticed tonight fuel in my scoot was leaking out the intake of the carb after sitting with the key on but engine off for a while. Sure indication of a bad needle valve. 5. One last thing: important you have the pump running off a relay, not directly off the ignition switch. Use the voltage from the ignition switch to energize the relay (with the other coil connection to ground), and the "relay" contacts of the relay going (one one side) to battery (via a fuse) and the other side to the pump. That way the current for the pump comes from the battery, not from the ignition switch. These pumps do not draw much current at all, but possibly too much for our pumy ignition switches. |
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Post by geh3333 on Mar 13, 2015 22:07:40 GMT -5
You're right John....I feel kinda foolish for not looking at the other end of that drain hose, lol. I put the fuel lines back the way they should be, and with the electric pump, she runs now Hey TT Pay no attention to geh. he is a known subversive, overall mean guy, and Obama supporter. A few things about both your carb and your electric pump. 1. Keep in mind the electric pump does only the same thing the girlie-man vacuum pump does, only more reliably. Presuming it is working properly, it simply provides a constant stream of fuel pressurized at 2 to 4 psi. Same as the old style pumps. 2. The fact fuel was running out "the overflow" is not clear. If it was running out the DRAIN hose, and you have that sorted out, no problem. If it was running out the intake of the carb it's not OK. 3. The part that regulates fuel getting INTO the carb isn't the electric (or vacuum) pump, but, rather the needle valve inside the bowl of the carb. Your carb bowl was 'all gummed up" - presumably because the scooter was sitting for a while and the fuel in the bowl evaporated, leaving residue behind. The right thing is a thorough cleaning --- BUT ALSO A REPLACEMENT OF THE NEEDLE VALVE. 4. Just in case, the fuel in the bowl should rise to, and automatically stay at, a very specific level. The needle valve, connected to the floats, allows fuel in then the floats drop down (not enough fuel in the bowl) and shuts off the fuel supply when the level rises to the proper level (again, done by the needle valve). If the needle valve is worn (or the valve seat gummed up) fuel will either not get in, or keep getting in when it should be stopped. Did you change the needle valve and clean it's seat? Also - a carb overhaul includes setting the float/needle valve height (the point when it shuts off the fuel supply), which is set by bending the float tine the pushes on the needle valve so it shuts off at the right height. The "right height" is different for different carbs (check the carb manufacturer). FYI - I just noticed tonight fuel in my scoot was leaking out the intake of the carb after sitting with the key on but engine off for a while. Sure indication of a bad needle valve. 5. One last thing: important you have the pump running off a relay, not directly off the ignition switch. Use the voltage from the ignition switch to energize the relay (with the other coil connection to ground), and the "relay" contacts of the relay going (one one side) to battery (via a fuse) and the other side to the pump. That way the current for the pump comes from the battery, not from the ignition switch. These pumps do not draw much current at all, but possibly too much for our pumy ignition switches. Talk about a sucker punch ! That one hurt  I have six of these shirts.  . I wear them as often as possible ! |
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Post by rcq92130 on Mar 13, 2015 22:29:29 GMT -5
Hey TT Pay no attention to geh. he is a known subversive, overall mean guy, and Obama supporter. A few things about both your carb and your electric pump. 1. Keep in mind the electric pump does only the same thing the girlie-man vacuum pump does, only more reliably. Presuming it is working properly, it simply provides a constant stream of fuel pressurized at 2 to 4 psi. Same as the old style pumps. 2. The fact fuel was running out "the overflow" is not clear. If it was running out the DRAIN hose, and you have that sorted out, no problem. If it was running out the intake of the carb it's not OK. 3. The part that regulates fuel getting INTO the carb isn't the electric (or vacuum) pump, but, rather the needle valve inside the bowl of the carb. Your carb bowl was 'all gummed up" - presumably because the scooter was sitting for a while and the fuel in the bowl evaporated, leaving residue behind. The right thing is a thorough cleaning --- BUT ALSO A REPLACEMENT OF THE NEEDLE VALVE. 4. Just in case, the fuel in the bowl should rise to, and automatically stay at, a very specific level. The needle valve, connected to the floats, allows fuel in then the floats drop down (not enough fuel in the bowl) and shuts off the fuel supply when the level rises to the proper level (again, done by the needle valve). If the needle valve is worn (or the valve seat gummed up) fuel will either not get in, or keep getting in when it should be stopped. Did you change the needle valve and clean it's seat? Also - a carb overhaul includes setting the float/needle valve height (the point when it shuts off the fuel supply), which is set by bending the float tine the pushes on the needle valve so it shuts off at the right height. The "right height" is different for different carbs (check the carb manufacturer). FYI - I just noticed tonight fuel in my scoot was leaking out the intake of the carb after sitting with the key on but engine off for a while. Sure indication of a bad needle valve. 5. One last thing: important you have the pump running off a relay, not directly off the ignition switch. Use the voltage from the ignition switch to energize the relay (with the other coil connection to ground), and the "relay" contacts of the relay going (one one side) to battery (via a fuse) and the other side to the pump. That way the current for the pump comes from the battery, not from the ignition switch. These pumps do not draw much current at all, but possibly too much for our pumy ignition switches. Talk about a sucker punch ! That one hurt I have six of these shirts. . I wear them as often as possible ! Diapers? But according to rumors, you are technically correct about the "guy". |
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Post by geh3333 on Mar 13, 2015 22:35:56 GMT -5
Talk about a sucker punch ! That one hurt I have six of these shirts. . I wear them as often as possible ! Diapers? But according to rumors, you are technically correct about the "guy". It funny how many many people stop me and tell me they like my shirt and were did I get it. Old and young , well mainly 30 and above . my 1911 on my side probably keeps the OTHERS from speaking out ,LOL. |
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Post by geh3333 on Mar 13, 2015 22:40:22 GMT -5
I'm always walking thru Walmart with my Obama sucks shirt on and my 1911 open on my side . here in south western pa its welcome
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Post by rcq92130 on Mar 13, 2015 22:43:51 GMT -5
Diapers? But according to rumors, you are technically correct about the "guy". It funny how many many people stop me and tell me they like my shirt and were did I get it. Old and young , well mainly 30 and above . my 1911 on my side probably keeps the OTHERS from speaking out ,LOL. Ha. I have a whole set I had made: "traits of a narcissist"; "WWND (what would Nixon do?)"; "OMG (Obama must go)"; "Mommy - how come we don't have a tyrant of our very own"; and so on. Since I live in California (we are all odd here, as has been explained), and since the 2nd is meaningless here, I must struggle on w/o a 1911 and rely on my scowl. Works ... usually. Other times I just have to run fast. BTW: born and raised in N.J. Go figure. |
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Post by geh3333 on Mar 13, 2015 22:57:19 GMT -5
It funny how many many people stop me and tell me they like my shirt and were did I get it. Old and young , well mainly 30 and above . my 1911 on my side probably keeps the OTHERS from speaking out ,LOL. Ha. I have a whole set I had made: "traits of a narcissist"; "WWND (what would Nixon do?)"; "OMG (Obama must go)"; "Mommy - how come we don't have a tyrant of our very own"; and so on. Since I live in California (we are all odd here, as has been explained), and since the 2nd is meaningless here, I must struggle on w/o a 1911 and rely on my scowl. Works ... usually. Other times I just have to run fast. BTW: born and raised in N.J. Go figure. The great thing about pa is , we have the castle doctrine with upgrades ! Anywhere we can legally carry we have no obligation to try to flee before using deadly force. This even pertains to others that may be in danger , we have the right to protect them also. Many states the victim must first try to get away , but then an only if this is not possible then they can use deadly force. Of course if someone is in immanent danger they don't have to try to flee. Also if someone breaks into your house in pa , you can chase them outside and use deadly force , for the fear of them returning. I love PA. Don't get me wrong , I don't go around looking to shoot someone ,lol , its just nice to know the criminals don't have more rights then the lawbiding citizens. |
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Post by rcq92130 on Mar 13, 2015 22:58:49 GMT -5
I'm always walking thru Walmart with my Obama sucks shirt on and my 1911 open on my side . here in south western pa its welcome Bunch in the dirty clothes pile (it's been in the high 80s here), but some:     |
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Post by geh3333 on Mar 13, 2015 23:00:50 GMT -5
Did you make those ? If so I want one of the kenya ones. I'll even for it !
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