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Post by jjoshua20213 on Sept 2, 2014 11:49:58 GMT -5
Can anyone explain how the carb diaphragm works?
My diaphragm gets sucked in at wot, vs. it going out a little.and raising the needle.
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Post by alleyoop on Sept 2, 2014 12:44:23 GMT -5
What do you mean it gets sucked in at WOT!! And how do you know that it is covered and with the top cap on the carb? As you open the throttle(butterfly) it allows more air to flow through the carb and more air gets sucked into the chamber to raise the diaphragm and needle out of the main jet and def-user so allow more fuel to also be sucked out.
So what is it that is happening that you think that the diaphragm is being sucked in? because that is not what is happening. Something else so explain what and how it is acting up, to diagnose the problem. Alleyoop
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Post by sickopsycho on Sept 2, 2014 21:10:22 GMT -5
Yeah I could be wrong here- but I think the sole purpose of that diaphram is to have a sort of "power assist" to lower the needle back when less fuel is needed. When you WOT- the butterfly valve opens but until the engine starts revving up there really isnt much more air moving through the carb hense not more need for fuel. As more air starts to flow through it pushes up that big floating obstruction inside the carb which in turn starts raising the needle more letting more fuel in. Its got a lot to do with keeping a venturi effect on the jet- if you didnt have that obstruction there and opened the throttle all the way the pressure would decrease inside the carb too much and fuel would not be sucked into the air causing too lean of a condition for the fuel/air to combust. This is all coming from me looking at the thing, I know very little about carbuerated fuel systems.
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Post by alleyoop on Sept 2, 2014 22:40:52 GMT -5
The question has not been answered, what is happening and when. Apparently at WOT it is acting up but in order to diagnose the problem more detail info is needed , what does it do any motor sounds BOG, BRAT, POPS etc.. But here is how the air on the air intake side of the carb works: Alleyoop
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Post by jjoshua20213 on Sept 2, 2014 23:26:51 GMT -5
The question has not been answered, what is happening and when. Apparently at WOT it is acting up but in order to diagnose the problem more detail info is needed , what does it do any motor sounds BOG, BRAT, POPS etc.. But here is how the air on the air intake side of the carb works: Alleyoop I guess it would sound like a bog? Imagine riding and hitting the brakes without releasing the throttle. You hear the engine working harder. I revved up the engine and listened to it. Then I took the diaphragm cover off. Then I revved it to wot again and watched and listened and it sounded the same. Then I wedged my finger in the hold and lifted the diaphragm manually. It quickly accelerated into a high rpm. However i cannot get the diaphragm to stay up at high rpm, only at idle. as soon as it revs past a curtain point the diaphragm sucks itself down into the seat and sounds like its bogging and feels like its starving for gas. I got it adjusted decently, now it takes off and your can hear it rev up then it acts like its starving for gas. It literally sounds like a manual transmission being up shifted. If I keep riding it feels like its surging a little.Sometimes I can hear it all of a sudden gain rpm like I just twisted the throttle more.
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Post by alleyoop on Sept 2, 2014 23:53:45 GMT -5
OK, if initially it will rev up and lift the slider then it will not hold and the slider drops the diapghrgam has a rip and or it is leaking and you need a new one. Yes it will bounce up and down but will not hold a throttle position because the slider is going up and then dropping due to leaking and not holding the air pressure. Alleyoop
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Post by jjoshua20213 on Sept 3, 2014 7:44:01 GMT -5
OK, if initially it will rev up and lift the slider then it will not hold and the slider drops the diapghrgam has a rip and or it is leaking and you need a new one. Yes it will bounce up and down but will not hold a throttle position because the slider is going up and then dropping due to leaking and not holding the air pressure. Alleyoop The diaphragm is fairly new and looks good, but i'll try another. For some reason this carb has to has the air/fuel screw turned mostly out for it to accel nicely. Any other carb works with the normal adj. range. I even tried switching pilot jets with another carb.
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Post by jjoshua20213 on Sept 4, 2014 7:16:41 GMT -5
Tried 2 other diaphragms with the same result
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Post by alleyoop on Sept 4, 2014 12:40:01 GMT -5
Picture of your carb and hoses around it please. Something is wrong if you have to turn the fuel mixture out more than 3 turns for it to run half way descent. The other thing that causes bouncing rpms is very LEAN condition so lets check out your setup on your scoot, pictures. Alleyoop
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Post by jjoshua20213 on Sept 4, 2014 22:33:42 GMT -5
I'll take pics tomorrow when I get off work. I only have the air screw problem with this carb, any other carb is normal, all my vacuum hoses and manifold are new, and I don't have egr
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Post by alleyoop on Sept 4, 2014 22:37:13 GMT -5
Then most likely the pilot jet on that carb is smaller than on the others, try taking the pilot jet out of one that you say works and put it in that one.
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Post by jjoshua20213 on Sept 5, 2014 6:37:21 GMT -5
Tried that already, same result
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Post by jjoshua20213 on Sept 5, 2014 21:10:31 GMT -5
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Post by Moat on Sept 8, 2014 7:33:02 GMT -5
The "CV" in a "CV carburetor" stands for "Constant Velocity". This type of carb design more precisely controls fuel flow over varying throttle by attempting to maintain a constant airflow velocity across the narrowest portion of the venturi... which is right at the bottom of the slide, where the needle and needle jet reside. Maintaining a constant airflow velocity provides a steady reference of pressure/vacuum over the fuel delivery ports - that steady reference aiding in more precise control of fuel delivery over the carb's operating range (i.e. - lower emissions, lower fuel consumption). To do that, CV's incorporate the flexible diaphram (seal) as a means of moving the slide up/down, via the pressure differential between the (more or less) atmospheric pressure in the airbox and the low pressure (vacuum) that exists right there, at the very bottom of the slide (narrowest point of the venturi). The top of the diaphram "sees" that vacuum via a hole (port) in the bottom of the slide - and that vacuum is thus applied to the entire (otherwise sealed) topside diaphram/slide chamber. That vacuum is what lifts the slide against the slide's spring, and gravity. In an enclosed tube, as airflow velocity increases, air pressure decreases proportionally (Bernoulli's Principle). So as you open the throttle (butterfly valve), the airflow velocity through the carburetor increases, pressure at the bottom of the slide drops (vacuum), and that vacuum is applied to the top diaphram chamber - lifting the slide, and pulling the tapered slide needle further out of it's opening (needle jet) to deliver appropriately more fuel. Of course, the bottom chamber side of the diaphram must not be sealed off, in order to allow it to move freely and find it's steady, proper "place". So the lower chamber has to be open to somewhere - and since the engine's entire process of "breathing" is dependent on the environment's atmospheric pressure in which it's operating... then atmospheric it is. That's what the elliptical port is that Ally circled in the pic above - the lower-side diaphram's reference port to the atmosphere. So the slide's position at any given engine intake demand is determined by the balance between vacuum at the bottom of the slide and atmospheric pressure at the carb mouth inlet - and to a lesser degree, the weight of the slide assembly and the slide return spring. That balancing act of pressures is what maintains something close to a constant airflow velocity across the narrow point of the venturi. A simple feedback-based governor system, really. For most CV carbs, a quick and easy check of the slide diaphram for sealing integrity is to gently push the slide all of the way up with an index finger, and then tightly close off the elliptical port with the thumb of your free hand (lick your thumb first, for a good seal ). Then release the slide - it will drop part way, but then should hang partially raised, more or less until you remove your thumb to uncover the port. A leaky diaphram will continue to drop when the slide is released. Bob
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