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Post by spandi on Aug 18, 2014 0:07:49 GMT -5
I get the eagle on the fender I get rocky, but I'll be danged if I can see what's on the side.
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Post by rockynv on Aug 18, 2014 11:56:10 GMT -5
It's real hard to make out. I brought the pics into my photo program, increased dpi and then ran a noise filter to see if it became any clearer. It is either someone on a bike or possibly Hello Kitty riding a Unicorn.
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Post by bnc on Aug 18, 2014 15:00:05 GMT -5
I disagree that a 400 cc bike is in general safer than a 100 cc. There are circumstances where it might be true.
My recollection at MSF was that the most common single vehicle bike accident was excess speed into a corner and losing control while the most common two vehicle accident was having a car unexpectedly pull out in front of the bike.
In both these types of accidents being able to go faster is more of a problem than not being able to go fast enough. There was no discussion about needing more power to get of the way if you think you are going to be rear ended though.
There was some discussion that the impact energy of an accident goes up as the square of the speed. So if you hit and object at 30 mph, the impact energy at 60 mph is four times as great.
A mitigating factor is that larger bikes tend to have better brakes, disks front and rear and sometimes dual disks up front but that is partly offset due to the bikes being a lot heavier. My 125 was only about 200 lbs but my 250 is 375 lbs.
In my opinion the best reason for having a larger scooter is that ABS brakes are available for larger bikes but I don't know of any 100 cc that has them.
I have ABS and it is a different experience to be able hit the brakes as hard as you can but continue to maneuver just like you normally would. Plus my insurance rate dropped about 20%.
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Post by rockynv on Aug 18, 2014 21:51:58 GMT -5
It is inherently dangerous to be traveling on a 35 mph bike in a world that normally travels at over 45 mph. People get enraged at slow riders and will try to lane spit you with a car or truck to pass you in your lane. On a 50 or 100cc many won't as likely be slowing down for corners as they should due to the tailgating automobiles behind them so many will be maintaining unsafe speeds of 35 or a hard won 40 mph on a 10 or 20 mph corner to not be blocking traffic afterwards slowly coming back up closer to the posted speed for the rest of the roadway.
The 100cc bike with the generally thinner tires, weaker frames and poorer suspensions will also be more likely to slide out and lose control taking a corner that would be no real issue on a 250cc or 400cc bike with better frames, tires and suspension. There are winding roads that I can easily ride at the posted speeds on my 250 that my 150 was very difficult to handle on and required you to slow down below what was posted to safely ride on them.
Yes there are the hot shot riders breaking speed laws having single bike accidents due to over speed and target fixation events in corners but we are talking the increased roadability of a 250cc or low compression 400cc scooter here.
Note that Suzuki did not offer ABS standard on their 400cc Burgman until this year.
Anyways you may find more often that its riders of underpowered bikes who are taking corners too fast in order to maintain speed going off the road.
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Post by SylvreKat on Aug 18, 2014 22:37:17 GMT -5
It is either someone on a bike or possibly Hello Kitty riding a Unicorn.  |
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Post by SylvreKat on Aug 18, 2014 22:38:00 GMT -5
Say, wait a minute. I LIKE unicorns!
>'Kat
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Post by rockynv on Aug 19, 2014 11:44:57 GMT -5
Say, wait a minute. I LIKE unicorns! >'Kat Yes but you wouldn't grab one by the ears and give them a twist to make em go faster. Here's one for you: |
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Post by bnc on Aug 19, 2014 14:07:56 GMT -5
I used to ride a 125cc so I know what it means to have traffic backed up. Once a guy gave me the finger as he was able to pass me, just as I was pulling over to let everyone by. Also, I tried to stay off streets that exceeded the limits of the bike regardless of the posted speed limit.
I never took corners too fast to avoid tailgaters. I just pulled over an let them by. It doesn't take a lot of knowledge to realize the limitations of a small bike; I seldom see much evidence that riders of small bikes behave by being aggressive with them. Conversely, give rider a more capable machine and they start to become more aggressive because they can.
If someone tailgates, the temptation with a big bike is too tear out of there and the smaller bike is to pull over. I know that temptation because I now have a larger bike. It is like showing weakness to have to pull over. It is human nature to speed away. The problem in my opinion is that speed is not always the best option. Especially if tearing out of there means hitting gravel and going down which is not likely if you just pull over.
But I digress, I don't believe tailgating and having to tear out of there is any near as common as the aforementioned accident types described in MSF which are mainly speed related. I think it is always possible to find an accident type that gives the advantage to the bigger bike but it does not make it generally safer.
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Post by Jarlaxle on Aug 19, 2014 19:06:48 GMT -5
It is inherently dangerous to be traveling on a 35 mph bike in a world that normally travels at over 45 mph. People get enraged at slow riders and will try to lane spit you with a car or truck to pass you in your lane. On a 50 or 100cc many won't as likely be slowing down for corners as they should due to the tailgating automobiles behind them so many will be maintaining unsafe speeds of 35 or a hard won 40 mph on a 10 or 20 mph corner to not be blocking traffic afterwards slowly coming back up closer to the posted speed for the rest of the roadway. The 100cc bike with the generally thinner tires, weaker frames and poorer suspensions will also be more likely to slide out and lose control taking a corner that would be no real issue on a 250cc or 400cc bike with better frames, tires and suspension. There are winding roads that I can easily ride at the posted speeds on my 250 that my 150 was very difficult to handle on and required you to slow down below what was posted to safely ride on them. Yes there are the hot shot riders breaking speed laws having single bike accidents due to over speed and target fixation events in corners but we are talking the increased roadability of a 250cc or low compression 400cc scooter here. Note that Suzuki did not offer ABS standard on their 400cc Burgman until this year. Anyways you may find more often that its riders of underpowered bikes who are taking corners too fast in order to maintain speed going off the road. My 2012 Burgy has ABS and the owners' manual reads like it was standard. I have to praise the Burg's brakes: as of 2007, the 400 has DUAL front discs (I recall with twin-pot calipers) and a rear disc. Yes, it's a 500lb scooter..but WOW, the brakes are good! I did a track day today (Thompsen, CT), and the brakes pulled me down from 80+ to 35-40 several dozen times with no drama and no fade. (Note: I HIGHLY rercommend a track training day for ALL riders. It WILL make you a safer rider!) |
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Post by rockynv on Aug 19, 2014 20:40:10 GMT -5
BNC - Now your assuming common sense however that is in short supply. Judging by many posts here people with undersized bikes are going to go WOT most of the time and even without a tailgater are going to go too fast into the corner on a bike that won't be able to bleed the speed and stay on the road. When it takes several minutes to get to within the speed limit most are not going to lay off the throttle for a corner unless they have to and then its too late.
I took the MSF training too and read what was printed in the manual and it was simply that most motorcycle accidents occur as single vehicle accidents while cornering with no reference to displacement.
Many times the accident will be from touching the front brake while in a tight turn since they did not slow down before entering the corner. A good portion of the time the corner the accident occurs on is the one they took pulling into a parking space or driveway technically going too fast and hitting the brake with the front wheel turned sharply so they end up dropping the bike while going just a little bit over walking speed.
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Post by rockynv on Aug 19, 2014 21:00:09 GMT -5
Note that Suzuki did not offer ABS standard on their 400cc Burgman until this year. My 2012 Burgy has ABS and the owners' manual reads like it was standard. I have to praise the Burg's brakes: as of 2007, the 400 has DUAL front discs (I recall with twin-pot calipers) and a rear disc. Yes, it's a 500lb scooter..but WOW, the brakes are good! I did a track day today (Thompsen, CT), and the brakes pulled me down from 80+ to 35-40 several dozen times with no drama and no fade. (Note: I HIGHLY rercommend a track training day for ALL riders. It WILL make you a safer rider!) That what Sky Motor Sports of Lakeland said when showing me the new Burgman 400 on the showroom floor last week when I went to see what all the hoopla was about the new Indian and Victory bikes. They were showing me a new 2011/2012 so that kind jives with what your saying. Checking Kelly Blue Book indicates that ABS was optional on the 400 prior to 2011 so they may have been off by a year. Suzuki appears to have skipped producing a 2010 Burgman and KBB for 2009 lists both an plain 400 and an ABS 400 Burgman: www.kbb.com/motorcycles/suzuki/2009/Did they include some form of traction control on the 2012 such as a Rain Mode? I really didn't look too closely as I really was not out there almost 100 miles from home to look at the Burgman's since I could do that locally. The Indians were very nice and the Big Victory Tourer was surprisingly easy for me to hold up despite my bad leg. |
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Post by SylvreKat on Aug 19, 2014 22:44:36 GMT -5
So psyche, let us know. Did you convince the missus and drive home a nice new-to-you Burgy? Or did you break your fellow Dawgs' hearts and pass on the deal? Curious minds want to know. >'Kat, perfectly willing to try twisting a unicorn's ear if he won't go faster otherwise  |
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Post by SylvreKat on Aug 20, 2014 7:41:58 GMT -5
... Conversely, give rider a more capable machine and they start to become more aggressive because they can. I dunno. My wagon has a 3.8L V6, but I'm not more aggressive with him than I was with my little Lynx 1.6L stick-shift. And the point of all this "bigger is safer" (at least, here in this thread) is to help psyche convince his wife that he needs to upgrade and get that Burgy. Although I would agree that bigger CAN be safer depending on the driving situation. >'Kat |
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Post by SylvreKat on Aug 20, 2014 8:05:48 GMT -5
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Post by rockynv on Aug 20, 2014 12:05:37 GMT -5
Nice but the power to weight ratio is a close match to what I have since the BigBeo is a heavy bike being about 33% heavier. The biggest advantage would be at over 80 mph so in normal riding the bike I have with a shorter wheelbase and more sport tuned suspension will take the curves better.
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