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Post by oldchopperguy on May 1, 2014 0:46:28 GMT -5
Those of you who followed my post on the old Kymco with home-made PAINTED whitewalls saw my pix showing how neat they look. Or, I should say "LOOKED". Today, I took a nice ride down the highway for about a half-hour at 70+ getting the tires good and hot. I then went to the store, and dismounted, ready to admire my handywork once again... WRONG!
My rear, meticulously prepped and hand-painted whitewalls were mostly gone, leaving a particularly ugly "Pinto-horse" pattern. What's left, will peel off in big "ribbons". I had already put 200 happy miles on "Minnie Mouse" and thought I was home free, but sustained freeway speed apparently heated the rubber and brought oils to the surface which acted just like mold-release, letting the tire paint loose.
It's TOO ugly to take pictures of... REALLY!
In all fairness, the product "Mr. Whitewall" states clearly in their instructions that you MUST grind ALL the top surface off the tire, removing all lettering and leaving a rough-ground surface. The instructions say THAT is CRITICAL to adhesion. Well, I was not going to grind off the surface of a brand-new Michelin tire, and I wanted the lettering in the whitewall. So, I broke all glaze with a green pad, and cleaned it thoroughly with lacquer-thinner to remove the surface "schmootz", washed in hot water and detergent... and figured it would be OK. WRONG!
The instructions, and most users agree that this product works best on OLD, sun-baked, dry-rotted tires with NO trace of molding "new goo" left in them. NOT the kind of tire you'd run on a 2-wheel vehicle. So now, I'm back to square-one with a whitewall on the front, and zebra on the back... EEEWWWW!
I will get it done, and will keep posting what works (and what does NOT). Right now, I'm going to go over both sidewalls with a power green-pad to actually abrade the surface some. Then, run the scoot high speed on a hot day, and abrade the surface again... Then, I'm going to re-paint the sidewalls with Zinsser white primer/stain-killer. I've always felt THAT stuff could be painted over GREASE! Well, almost... Once primed, I may try a simple, high-end flat-white latex outdoor house paint.
Back in "the day" I painted several car whitewalls with sprayed white lacquer with good results, BUT they were OLDER, well-baked tires. New tires do NOT like paint.
Absolutely NOTHING cool is ever easy...
Ride safe, and stay creative...
Leo in Texas |
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Post by earlylight160 on May 1, 2014 6:14:38 GMT -5
What a bummer!
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Post by spandi on May 1, 2014 7:06:50 GMT -5
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Post by Jarlaxle on May 1, 2014 10:43:55 GMT -5
Honestly, I never understood the appeal of whitewalls.
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Post by oldchopperguy on May 1, 2014 21:25:25 GMT -5
Spandi,
I'm pretty sure the product I used is the same stuff. It gets "private-labeled" under several names. The product is amazing. The pieces I peeled off are as tough as a balloon. Problem is, it just did not stick to the NEW tire. The instructions DO plainly state the tire must be ground down to fresh rubber, and particularly recommend using it on OLDER, sun-baked tires. That would make a big difference! Today, I spent an hour at the spray wash, and was able to blast off EVERY bit of the painted whitewalls. So NOW, I have a fresh, new tire to start over on again... LOL! Hopefully the extreme detergent blasting removed most of the "schmootz" that oozes from the new tire construction. I was going to try Zinsser white primer, but it too is a latex, water-based product. Any residual oils oozing from the new tire may do a repeat performance. I then remembered as a kid, I had good results painting whitewalls with original RUSTOLEUM enamel. The secret to Rustoleum was fish-oil as its main ingredient for "universal-coverage-anti-rust" properties. And it stuck to ANYTHING! Never cracked, never peeled. The oil-base paint seemed to be able to cover surfaces that should not take paint. So... I'm going to try it on the new tire (One side ONLY at first as a test)... The scooter looks somewhat "weird" with a whitewall up front and a blackwall in back... Thankfully, the rear tire is not all that noticeable... I'll report on how it works...More soon, Leo in Texas
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Post by oldchopperguy on May 1, 2014 21:29:38 GMT -5
Honestly, I never understood the appeal of whitewalls.
It's an "OLD-GEEZER" thing... LOL! A hold-over from the fifties!Leo |
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Post by shalomdawg on May 1, 2014 21:46:28 GMT -5
howdy, yup , whitewalls only look good on someone elses' scoot and would look TERRIBLE on mine---TERRIBLE I tell yu, really--anything but that---I wouldn't ride a scoot with THOSE on if ya paid me to-----almost---if only my words could convince myself!!!-----but no!!!
lotsa miles and smiles to ya
ken
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Post by nulldevice on May 1, 2014 22:18:58 GMT -5
Maybe I will try painting "raised white letters" that tires had back in the 70s on my TMAX.  |
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Post by spandi on May 2, 2014 1:32:46 GMT -5
Spandi,
I'm pretty sure the product I used is the same stuff. It gets "private-labeled" under several names. The product is amazing. The pieces I peeled off are as tough as a balloon. Problem is, it just did not stick to the NEW tire. The instructions DO plainly state the tire must be ground down to fresh rubber, and particularly recommend using it on OLDER, sun-baked tires. That would make a big difference! Today, I spent an hour at the spray wash, and was able to blast off EVERY bit of the painted whitewalls. So NOW, I have a fresh, new tire to start over on again... LOL! Hopefully the extreme detergent blasting removed most of the "schmootz" that oozes from the new tire construction. I was going to try Zinsser white primer, but it too is a latex, water-based product. Any residual oils oozing from the new tire may do a repeat performance. I then remembered as a kid, I had good results painting whitewalls with original RUSTOLEUM enamel. The secret to Rustoleum was fish-oil as its main ingredient for "universal-coverage-anti-rust" properties. And it stuck to ANYTHING! Never cracked, never peeled. The oil-base paint seemed to be able to cover surfaces that should not take paint. So... I'm going to try it on the new tire (One side ONLY at first as a test)... The scooter looks somewhat "weird" with a whitewall up front and a blackwall in back... Thankfully, the rear tire is not all that noticeable... I'll report on how it works...More soon, Leo in Texas Well Leo I thought it might be worth a shot. Btw, in some of the listings, some of the guys reported good results with of all things white Primer! (go figure!)  |
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Post by Jarlaxle on May 2, 2014 8:16:30 GMT -5
Maybe I will try painting "raised white letters" that tires had back in the 70s on my TMAX. They're still around, though usually on trucks now.  |
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Post by retrobrian on May 2, 2014 10:09:52 GMT -5
Honestly, I never understood the appeal of whitewalls. Mine came with whitewalls and I think it makes the Scoot |
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Post by oldchopperguy on May 2, 2014 13:21:18 GMT -5
Honestly, I never understood the appeal of whitewalls. Mine came with whitewalls and I think it makes the Scoot
It it looks ITALIAN, it just cries out for whitewalls! No matter what country it's made in... That look has done a LOT for the Genuine Buddy scooters! They look more "Italian" than a Vespa! NICE SCOOT!Leo |
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Post by oldchopperguy on May 2, 2014 13:25:25 GMT -5
Maybe I will try painting "raised white letters" that tires had back in the 70s on my TMAX. They're still around, though usually on trucks now.
"Billboard" tires were HUGE in the '70's and still show up now and then. There are numerous "paint-pens" to accomplish this. The tire paints work better on things like raised letters, especially since you can "selectively" sand the surface of the letters (quite easy with a sanding-disk in a drill) before painting. And if they deteriorate, it's easy to touch them up. Today, the tire paint-pens also come in many colors too! I'd do it!Leo |
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Post by oldchopperguy on May 2, 2014 13:35:54 GMT -5
Spandi,
The white primer makes a lot of sense. I was going to try Zinsser white "stain-killer" primer myself, since I've had good results with it on difficult projects. Considering it's still a latex water-based paint though, I think I'm going with an oil-base paint this time for better adhesion on the "admittedly-oily" new tire.
A white lacquer or enamel primer would be MUCH more likely to stick to the "questionable" NEW-TIRE surface. And, these scooter tires don't "flex" all that much to crack the paint. I'll definitely keep posting on what I discover, as there is some real interest in putting whitewalls on tire sizes that don't come in whites.
I think the products made for painting whitewalls like I used are excellent on older, sun-baked tires. But NEW tires present a unique problem in that they emit oils and manufacturing "schmootz" until they become completely "seasoned" by sun and highway speed heating-up.
I'm hoping that Rustoleum original "Rust Preventative" enamel will tend to "absorb" the manufacturing oils from the tire, into the inside of the paint-surface, and resist peeling off. I'm sure any paint applied to a new tire will tend to come off if blasted up close with a spray-wash wand. But could be a lacquer or enamel paint will stay put if handled carefully.
Time will tell...
Thanks!
Leo
PS: It's worth noting that I rode several days (in-town speeds only) with no problem with the whitewall paint whatsoever. Then, one half-hour ride at 70+mph and off it came! Highway-speed heat-up did the number on it, evidently forcing the manufacturing oils to the surface.
It could be that riders on 50 to 150cc scoots could get away with the paint when running below highway speeds. It also would depend somewhat on how hot the climate is. Lots of "science" involved here... LOL!
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Post by spandi on May 2, 2014 17:43:10 GMT -5
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