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Post by oldchopperguy on May 5, 2014 13:09:25 GMT -5
A friend up north use to do this professionally and it involved two tools one to rotate the wheel on the vehicle and another with a sanding drum to dress a rabbit/groove in the sidewall to put the whitewall in. I believe he had to take at least a 64th to a 32nd of an inch off to have success and could not go too far from the bead to where the tire flexed as it rolled. Rockynv,
To do it professionally, that sounds like the ONLY proper way. Fake whitewalls are used mostly on cars that don't get a lot of use, but with scooters and motorcycles, we tend to "test" the paint to the max. Fortunately, our lightweight rides don't flex the tires as much as cars... LOL! I've seen articles stating that all factory scooter whitewalls are actually painted, but that is not the case. My Shinko front tire definitely has the whitewall molded into the tire. The "Dr. Whitewall" product I used originally is very tough, but adhesion is the big variable. This Rustleum plastic primer seems to really STICK, but only time will tell if it's TOUGH... Thanks for the info! Leo
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Post by oldchopperguy on May 5, 2014 13:11:52 GMT -5
Walterwhite,
Just saw your new avatar... YOUR panda is bigger than MINE... I'm jealous!... LOLOL!
This site is always fun,
Leo
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Post by spandi on May 5, 2014 19:03:41 GMT -5
A friend up north use to do this professionally and it involved two tools one to rotate the wheel on the vehicle and another with a sanding drum to dress a rabbit/groove in the sidewall to put the whitewall in. I believe he had to take at least a 64th to a 32nd of an inch off to have success and could not go too far from the bead to where the tire flexed as it rolled. Rockynv,
To do it professionally, that sounds like the ONLY proper way. Fake whitewalls are used mostly on cars that don't get a lot of use, but with scooters and motorcycles, we tend to "test" the paint to the max. Fortunately, our lightweight rides don't flex the tires as much as cars... LOL! I've seen articles stating that all factory scooter whitewalls are actually painted, but that is not the case. My Shinko front tire definitely has the whitewall molded into the tire. The "Dr. Whitewall" product I used originally is very tough, but adhesion is the big variable. This Rustleum plastic primer seems to really STICK, but only time will tell if it's TOUGH... Thanks for the info! Leo So after the primer is fully dry why not try painting it with Dr Whitewall?
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Post by rockynv on May 6, 2014 3:57:29 GMT -5
A friend up north use to do this professionally and it involved two tools one to rotate the wheel on the vehicle and another with a sanding drum to dress a rabbit/groove in the sidewall to put the whitewall in. I believe he had to take at least a 64th to a 32nd of an inch off to have success and could not go too far from the bead to where the tire flexed as it rolled. Rockynv,
To do it professionally, that sounds like the ONLY proper way. Fake whitewalls are used mostly on cars that don't get a lot of use, but with scooters and motorcycles, we tend to "test" the paint to the max. Fortunately, our lightweight rides don't flex the tires as much as cars... LOL! I've seen articles stating that all factory scooter whitewalls are actually painted, but that is not the case. My Shinko front tire definitely has the whitewall molded into the tire. The "Dr. Whitewall" product I used originally is very tough, but adhesion is the big variable. This Rustleum plastic primer seems to really STICK, but only time will tell if it's TOUGH... Thanks for the info! Leo The did it for car dealerships that took something in trade that needed some dressing up and had fairly new blackwalls on it. They had to last through the warranty period and meet state safety inspection too so they used a cold or chemical vulcanization process to apply them similar to the rubber cement to fuse tire plugs in place so that they would blend with the rubber in the tire. Sometimes on the soft winter tires the material would bleed at the edges since it would penetrate further into the black rubber of the tire resulting in a gray line at the edges. They had to get past how deeply the silicone mold release had penetrated into the sidewall to get good and even bonding.
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Post by oldchopperguy on May 6, 2014 13:42:26 GMT -5
So after the primer is fully dry why not try painting it with Dr Whitewall? That would be fine in theory, but if the white primer works, it's much better looking than the Dr. Whitewall. The "Dr." dries with horrid brush-strokes, and is so thick it ruins the factory markings. The primer (IF it works) looks just like a factory whitewall. The look is great, but it's yet to be seen if it will stay put. Good idea though!Leo
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Post by oldchopperguy on May 6, 2014 13:54:22 GMT -5
The did it for car dealerships that took something in trade that needed some dressing up and had fairly new blackwalls on it. They had to last through the warranty period and meet state safety inspection too so they used a cold or chemical vulcanization process to apply them similar to the rubber cement to fuse tire plugs in place so that they would blend with the rubber in the tire. Sometimes on the soft winter tires the material would bleed at the edges since it would penetrate further into the black rubber of the tire resulting in a gray line at the edges. They had to get past how deeply the silicone mold release had penetrated into the sidewall to get good and even bonding. Rockynv,
The part of your message I highlighted in red, I'm sure is THE main problem! It sums it up... I'm hoping this "for plastic" primer will allow the remaining "stuff" on the tire to "mix" with the primer, rather than to reject it, releasing the paint. Yesterday, I did the LEFT side with the KRYLON primer. Both the RUSTOLEUM and the KRYLON went on beautifully. Quick coverage and great, even finish. They say "full adhesion" on "plastic" takes 5 to 7 days after application... So... I'm letting "Minnie Mouse" sit and bake before I begin riding... Absolute FRUSTRATION since it's PERFECT riding weather... LOL! The right side (Rustoleum) is showing some light-brown mottling in the white. Actually, it's encouraging since it appears the mold-release or whatever was the culprit actually IS becoming part of the paint, instead of releasing it. If that's the only problem I encounter, I can easily put on an additional coat once this is fully-cured. But again, you hit the nail on the head in your message. To do this on a NEW tire, the paint will HAVE to be capable of "mixing" with the new-tire residue. No amount of cleaning with any solvent will remove the "new" from the sidewall. Thanks much for your messages, they really do help!Leo
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Post by spandi on May 6, 2014 15:08:19 GMT -5
So after the primer is fully dry why not try painting it with Dr Whitewall? That would be fine in theory, but if the white primer works, it's much better looking than the Dr. Whitewall. The "Dr." dries with horrid brush-strokes, and is so thick it ruins the factory markings. The primer (IF it works) looks just like a factory whitewall. The look is great, but it's yet to be seen if it will stay put. Good idea though!Leo Again Leo, I thought I'd send the idea out, but I do think the white spray primer alone will work. However, based on what I've read it will take more than one or two coats to pull it off, and end up with a solid white color.
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Post by oldchopperguy on May 7, 2014 1:10:18 GMT -5
That would be fine in theory, but if the white primer works, it's much better looking than the Dr. Whitewall. The "Dr." dries with horrid brush-strokes, and is so thick it ruins the factory markings. The primer (IF it works) looks just like a factory whitewall. The look is great, but it's yet to be seen if it will stay put. Good idea though!Leo Again Leo, I thought I'd send the idea out, but I do think the white spray primer alone will work. However, based on what I've read it will take more than one or two coats to pull it off, and end up with a solid white color. I think you are right! The Rustoleum side is showing a light brown mottling, indicating it's absorbing the new-tire "schmootz". If it stays trapped in the paint, I should be able to later re-coat it and have it stay white. So far, the Krylon side is looking great. Bad weather is setting in for several days, so I can let the paint cure well before riding. I'll ride it a week or so, and see if it cracks or peels. If not, I'll re-coat with fresh white. I'll keep posting so all can learn from my mistakes! Leo
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Post by rockynv on May 7, 2014 4:10:02 GMT -5
Remember a tire is more like a sponge than we care to believe. The rubber is full of liquid components to distribute the carbon black and allow it to the surface to reduce the negative effects of exposure to ozone and sunlight. Tires that see limited use can have these compounds actually settle to the bottom and leach out into the ground or be impacted by long term contact with the hot lime found in concrete slabs and driveways which is why you need to run a tire at speeds over 35 or so mph for 15 to 30 minutes at lease once a month so the carbon black will stay fairly evenly distribute. Any coating you put on them has to get past this continual migration so it can knit with the rubber casing.
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Post by oldchopperguy on May 7, 2014 12:52:25 GMT -5
Remember a tire is more like a sponge than we care to believe. The rubber is full of liquid components to distribute the carbon black and allow it to the surface to reduce the negative effects of exposure to ozone and sunlight. Tires that see limited use can have these compounds actually settle to the bottom and leach out into the ground or be impacted by long term contact with the hot lime found in concrete slabs and driveways which is why you need to run a tire at speeds over 35 or so mph for 15 to 30 minutes at lease once a month so the carbon black will stay fairly evenly distribute. Any coating you put on them has to get past this continual migration so it can knit with the rubber casing. Absolutely!
I'm learning THIS fact "the hard way"... LOL! And the Michelin tire is EXTRA-SOFT, and EXTRA-GOOEY... The black colorant comes off like charcoal with only gentle mineral-spirits! I can wipe and wipe, cleaning the sidewall and the black just keeps on coming. This tire rides SWEET, and sticks to the road like glue, but I don't expect a lot of miles from it. This "whitewall project" will be an "ULTIMATE TEST" of these new paints for plastic. Supposedly they are formulated to negate the greasy properties of modern plastics, mixing with the residue seeping to the surface and sealing it off, allowing paint to stick to stuff that was never made to be painted... or something like that... LOL!If either the Rustoleum OR the Krylon will trap and seal the tire-ooze, AND remain stuck to the tire... It will be truly a "miracle" product! At any rate, I'm giving it a major-league "test"... I can REALLY see why the "rat-rod" boys paint the whitewalls on tires so old and dry-rotted they wouldn't be safe to use as a back-yard swing... LOL! Once all the manufacturing goo dries out, the tire cracks and splits, and is not fit for use, BUT paint WILL stick to it! Time will tell! And, I'll keep posting the results.Leo
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Post by spandi on May 8, 2014 9:05:27 GMT -5
Leo I think your problem may be solved. Last night I was spraying my replacement front fairing with Rustoleum primer for plastic, letting it sit for about an hour before checking on it. Anyways, I had laid down a PLASTIC tarp before painting it (Got that?) when I went to check it I was in bare feet, and after looking it over and seeing no runs, drips, or major imperfections, decided to go back in and found to my surprise that the tarp was GLUED TO MY FEET! If this stuff sticks to your tire anywhere as well as it glued the tarp to my feet you should have no worries.
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Post by oldchopperguy on May 8, 2014 14:50:16 GMT -5
Leo I think your problem may be solved. Last night I was spraying my replacement front fairing with Rustoleum primer for plastic, letting it sit for about an hour before checking on it. Anyways, I had laid down a PLASTIC tarp before painting it (Got that?) when I went to check it I was in bare feet, and after looking it over and seeing no runs, drips, or major imperfections, decided to go back in and found to my surprise that the tarp was GLUED TO MY FEET! If this stuff sticks to your tire anywhere as well as it glued the tarp to my feet you should have no worries. Spandi,
I think you're RIGHT! I found the same phenomenon when pulling the masking tape off my tire. I got some of the paint on my knuckles, and let it dry, just to see how tough it is. My hands were greasy from sticking them into the suspension during masking, and I was sweating plenty... The paint was STILL on there with a vengeance! No amount of scrubbing with hot water and detergent and a brush would loosen it. I left it on for a full day, and it was still stuck to me like glue... I finally had to use thinner to remove it. I do hope it will stick to the tires that well! LOL! Leo
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Post by urbanmadness on May 14, 2014 12:57:45 GMT -5
I love rustoluem.... I'm like the poster boy for rustoluem. I've even tried shooting thru and air brush once or twice... I did a roller paint job on a full size GMC Jimmy with it and it came out really well, The white scooter is painted with rustoluem laquer with black airbrushed laquer. Rustoluem is truely and amazing paint. The stuff just sticks!
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Post by oldchopperguy on May 15, 2014 1:15:21 GMT -5
I love rustoluem.... I'm like the poster boy for rustoluem. I've even tried shooting thru and air brush once or twice... I did a roller paint job on a full size GMC Jimmy with it and it came out really well, The white scooter is painted with rustoluem laquer with black airbrushed laquer. Rustoluem is truely and amazing paint. The stuff just sticks! Urbanmadness,
I totally agree with you! I guess I've been using Rustoleum for over 60 years! It's GOOD stuff, but you absolutely MUST let it totally cure... A couple of weeks in the sun does it pretty well! My 1970 Harley Electra-Glide was factory black, and I first flamed it, then did it in an "America" theme, all with Rustoleum spray-enamel using masks and friskets like with an airbrush. It came out great! Today's Rustoleum comes in colors and textures we never dreamed of "back in the day"... And their gloss-clear makes for a fabulous finish. I also like Rustoleum's gloss-clear LACQUER for finishing lacquer. It dries like glass!So... I just saw your post on the Honda Goldwing! WOW! THAT is a BIKE! I'm thinking it's probably one of the original 4-cylinder versions. If so, I like it even MORE! Those are so classic that they're getting into the vintage Harley and BMW genre. VERY cool! Not quite so bulky, and plenty of power! Of course, they are iconic baggers for touring, but the early ones also make great stripped speedsters... Almost like a "bobber". They can be done up in a 1940's cosmetic and be real knock-outs! ... A little dull paint, no extra chrome, leather saddlebags, lots of reflectors, fishtail straight-pipes... OOOH! I'm drooling already! However you do yours though, it's sure to become a star on the site! Don't forget us little scooter guys! Enjoy!Leo
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