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Post by jvanderwarf on Dec 10, 2013 19:54:46 GMT -5
what is the penalty for not wearing a vest if that law goes into effect? that is usually why laws are written in the first place, just another tax law on the books. of course whoever produces those vests will benefit also. if riders want to make themselves more visible, we don't need government to do it for us. If you cause a problem that potentially impacts the rights of the many then there will be laws written to deal with the issue of the few or the one causing the problem. If too many riders don't follow good sense and if a root cause analysis shows that it was a poor or bad choice that caused the incidents then there will be laws written to protect the rights of the greater number of people especially once a repettative pattern developes. That is why we have building, fire, traffic, health and safety regulations. If everyone just showed good sense and made more appriate choices in riding gear with staying visible in mind then they would not be compelled to deal with it via regulation. Really caused by the few in the riding community who chose badly compelling the law makers to step in. Thats sounds about right conform to the Norm or we will make laws to make you conform. |
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Post by oldchopperguy on Dec 11, 2013 12:51:17 GMT -5
[/quote] Thats sounds about right conform to the Norm or we will make laws to make you conform. [/quote] Ah... It worked pretty well for Hitler... and Stalin... Hussein... Castro... Mousey Tongue... Still workin' for China and Cuba. It's catchin' on fast in America too. Let the government decide what's "good for us" then force it down our throats with laws our Constitutional Founding Fathers would have executed the lawmakers for, for even suggesting... And THAT includes a LOT more than traffic laws... Oh well, "learn from the experts". Use to be the REST of the world learned from US. It's sorta turned around backwards over the last 20 years. Leo (remembering when the majority didn't need to be told ANYTHING) in Texas
PS: As the late Andy Rooney might have mused: "Ever wonder why the most ABNORMAL people get to write the laws telling the rest of us what's NORMAL...?"
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Post by rockynv on Dec 12, 2013 13:43:12 GMT -5
Actually don't use common sense and cause a costly problem that is dipping into everyones pockets and they will pass a law to help deal with it. Stay under the radar and they won't feel the need to write laws to deal with your poor behavior. Most of these laws do not come about on their own. Most times enough people have to complain about a problem before laws are enacted. Then we also complain further because lawmakers drag their feet and take too long to act when we complain about a problem.
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Post by bandito2 on Dec 14, 2013 2:04:06 GMT -5
OK, my turn.  Hmmm... Isn't anybody going to say anything about the cage drivers? Sure it makes sense for bike/scooter riders to make themselves more visible, but the cage drivers also need to be alert to other vehicles, pedestrians and animals too. Why is it that the onus always seems to fall to the victims? Is it necessary that all pedestrians, bicyclists, scooter/bike riders and outdoor pets and wild life bear the burden of making themselves more visible for the ease of cage drivers? Do the cage drivers not also have a major portion of culpability for their actions? and need to take responsibility for the results of those actions? and to also suffer consequences because of those results? Once upon a time ago I got rear ended at a stop sign no less while wearing a hi-viz vest. I did my part. I just wanted to slap the stupid (female dog) when she said to the cop "I didn't see him officer" She pulled up right behind me and then accelerated as if she thought I was going to blow through the stop sign like she apparently wanted to. She center punched me and I bounced off of her windshield up onto the top of her car and fell off! Guess it would be hard to see somebody when they have their head up their backside or texting or some other self imposed distraction. It IS dangerous out there for riders and I honestly doubt that being forced to wear Hi-viz attire is going to make enough of a significant difference in incidents. I may be wrong, but I think most incidents are mostly the fault of the cagers. Hi-viz wear only works if they ACTUALLY LOOK to see you.  (and then make moves to avoid hitting you) A better solution SHOULD be better training/testing for cage driver licenses, more severe consequences for those drivers when they are at fault and more effective ways of informing the driving public making them more aware of motorcyclists/moped/scooter riders. Yeah, and one of the consequences should be that they be required to commute on 2 wheels for 2 weeks and if not that then maybe something like passing a motorcycle safety course before they'd get their car driver license back...... At their expense of course. (That'll teach em!)  Ok, I'll step off the box now. |
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Post by SylvreKat on Dec 14, 2013 7:52:18 GMT -5
Hmmm... Isn't anybody going to say anything about the cage drivers? Just have to point out, that's why there's fines for texting while driving etc. But people will be stupid regardless of laws, and regardless of punishments. I knew someone who'd gotten his three strikes drunk driving, and was still driving despite a suspended (revoked?) license. Happily for me, he got caught for something else shortly after I learned he was driving illegally. I do agree though that riders sometimes make poor choices that increase their risks. I saw a moving shadow, which turned out to be a guy all in black (as in ALL black) on a bike that was all black (as in nothing else--no chrome, no nothing visible that wasn't black). I didn't even notice his headlight, although that could be 'cause I was at an angle to him, on a side street waiting for the green light. Doesn't seem smart to make yourself so difficult to identify. >'Kat |
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Post by kxj5906 on Dec 14, 2013 12:05:18 GMT -5
I think that's a great law!
I wear an orange construction vest every time I go out ride.
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Post by rockynv on Dec 14, 2013 21:38:40 GMT -5
Hmmm... Isn't anybody going to say anything about the cage drivers? Just have to point out, that's why there's fines for texting while driving etc. But people will be stupid regardless of laws, and regardless of punishments. I knew someone who'd gotten his three strikes drunk driving, and was still driving despite a suspended (revoked?) license. Happily for me, he got caught for something else shortly after I learned he was driving illegally. I do agree though that riders sometimes make poor choices that increase their risks. I saw a moving shadow, which turned out to be a guy all in black (as in ALL black) on a bike that was all black (as in nothing else--no chrome, no nothing visible that wasn't black). I didn't even notice his headlight, although that could be 'cause I was at an angle to him, on a side street waiting for the green light. Doesn't seem smart to make yourself so difficult to identify. >'Kat Distracted driving is becoming recognized as the crime it truely is so there is hope on that front meanwhile laws will be enacted to attack the problem from both sides. A good friend gave up riding because distracted cagers didn't pay attention to him and were constantly rear ending his bike. I ride the same roads and wasn't close to having the actual contacts that he was having in reality I have only been tapped from behind once. The differences are that while I ride scooters with top cases and high mounted rear facing reflectors or light bars with my current scooter a reflective silver metalflake, wear a bright white helmet and the model jacket I wear is called a silver ignitor because it is so reflective at night. I am 6 feet tall and being long waisted sit very tall in the saddle. While my friend is quite short being not quite 5' 4", wears flat black leathers with a flat black helmet, lowered his bike and gave it the full blackout treatment removing all the chrome and everything reflective item he could and still stay close to streat legal and painted it flat black too. He even put tiny bullet or pinhole lights on the bike and a louvered air raid grill on his headlight. To top that off he likes to stop really fast and at the last split second. And he has no idea why he kept getting hit. They could make him the poster child example of the problem biker causing these laws to be enacted. |
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Post by SylvreKat on Dec 14, 2013 23:55:36 GMT -5
Gosh rocky, are you sure you don't live in my town? Or rather, that your friend doesn't? He sounds exactly like the moving shadow. Except you forgot to mention the visor was black, too. And gloves. And pants. And shoes. And rims. And....
>'Kat
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Post by oldchopperguy on Dec 15, 2013 14:25:29 GMT -5
Bandito2,
I agree! I've been riding now for more than fifty years, and 2-wheel riders have ALWAYS been "targets". It did NOT all start with "Easy Rider"... LOL!
Probably a full 25% of car and truck drivers travel their merry way with their heads up their collective rear-ends and their phones in their hands. Add to that the fact that the Texas DOT estimates one out of every four cars on the road is STOLEN and being driven by an illegal alien with NO driver's license, and NO ability to drive ANYTHING... and you have a real problem.
Add to THAT the fact that the same aliens often are 12 to 15-years old, attempting to join a gang, AND the gang-initiation requires murdering an innocent stranger... (and BIKERS are SUCH tempting targets) and the problem becomes quite lethal.
Every time we ride, we're literally "bringing a knife to a gunfight". Just a fact of life, but it surely does sharpen your reflexes!
Just to balance the blame a little, last year I was stopped at a red-light and watched a business lady dressed to the nines on a Vespa. She was a hundred yards from the intersection when I got the green, and she got the red.
She was riding along NO-HANDS, nose buried in her phone doodad, happily texting away... right through the red-light... Cars were ALL OVER the road trying to miss her. I almost dumped my scooter trying to miss her... She just flew on through, totally oblivious to the screeching tires, horns, etc. OR the red-light she ran.
Not ALL the idiots are in cages... Most maybe, but not all... LOL!
Leo (growing eyes in the back of my head) in Texas
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Post by scootnwinn on Dec 16, 2013 2:14:56 GMT -5
Seriously 1/4 of all vehicles are stolen by illegal aliens and driven down the road looking to randomly murder someone?? I live in the next state over and I work in construction so I know a lot of aliens illegal or otherwise I don't condone people coming to this country illegally but almost all the ones I know are hard working decent folks that try their hardest to make the border crossing the only law they break so the don't get deported. In my experience being illegal doesn't make you evil just unfortunate. In reality 99.99% of them are just folks trying to find a nice place to live and raise their kids. I find it hard to believe they come here just to steal cars join gangs and murder people. They can do that in Mexico...
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Post by oldchopperguy on Dec 16, 2013 3:20:32 GMT -5
Just to clarify...
Channel 11, CBS network news, 2010 quoted the TX DOT stating that they estimate one-in-four cars driven on Texas FREEWAYS is STOLEN. And a LARGE PERCENTAGE of these vehicles are driven by juveniles 12 to 15 years old, who are ILLEGAL ALIENS (no mention of nationality) and have no previous driving experience.
Further statements from the Dallas DPS stated that of this group, an "extraordinary percentage" are gang recruits, who must kill someone, witnessed by a senior gang-member as part of his/her initiation. THAT earns them their first teardrop tattoo, and brands them as an active member.
Those are the reports aired on CBS news in 2010, and I'm confident the situation has not improved since then.
I'm NOT on a crusade to deport anyone, or disrespect anyone. Just relating the figures reported on network news, as it pertains to our safety on the roads, and, as it relates to this thread on high-vis. vests. There is good reason I joked about the vests being good targets.
Leo in Texas
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Post by scootnwinn on Dec 16, 2013 12:11:23 GMT -5
I'm glad I don't live in Texas.
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Post by oldchopperguy on Dec 16, 2013 14:44:48 GMT -5
I'm glad I don't live in Texas.
Trust me... Live here for a year, and you'd probably like it as much as I do... I've yet to meet anybody who ever came to Texas and didn't find it so refreshing that they wanted to stay.
The crime situation here is no worse than anywhere else, and far better than most places. (Good Lord, I lived Illinois for my first 3 decades where the fox is soundly in charge of the chicken coop...) and Texas is so refreshing after THAT it's like Disneyland... LOL!
The only difference between Texas and some states is that we simply "tell it like it is". The bad guys are truly rotten, and we admit it. The good guys are the very best, and we're proud of it... We reward good, and do what it takes concerning the bad. And we never fell for that Socialist police state mantra of "to serve and protect..." It's not the police department's job to serve, OR protect. It's their job to enforce the law... After YOU finish defending YOURSELF, and call them.
It's a great system, conceived around 1776... It still lives in our U.S. Constitution, and citizens of every state would do well to read it before voting.
It's not for everyone (ESPECIALLY for those who think everything's just fine if Washington says so...) but I've lived in Europe in the military, was raised in Illinois, and have lived in numerous states over the last 50 years. Every place has its own good and bad points, but the absolute "zero-tolerance" for sugar-coating fertilizer in Texas is what got me here, and keeps me here... Well, THAT, and the great MEXICAN food! ...and a WHOLE lot of happy bikers... LOL!
Just reflect for a moment on the unpleasant statistics I reported that makes it sound so dismal... I'll guaranty the evil that goes on in Texas goes on in every other state, and to a greater extent in many. In Texas, we simply understand it's part of life everywhere, and we talk about it. You can't kill the rat unless you admit he's in the house... And THAT attitude, NOT the crime rate, scares the devil out of many of today's generation.
This is getting pretty far off the subject of the original thread, so I'll get off my soap-box, and simply say I like the attitude and mentality of Texas better than other places I've lived. Just me... Happily old-school, and far-right conservative to the bone.
Leo, in... Well, you know where... |
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Post by skuttadawg on Dec 16, 2013 22:42:23 GMT -5
Tarkus what is wack in SC is you can not get a DUI charge while on a moped but you can for a riding lawn mower
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Post by tarkus on Dec 17, 2013 5:45:06 GMT -5
Tarkus what is wack in SC is you can not get a DUI charge while on a moped but you can for a riding lawn mower Twisted ! |
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