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Post by Mainely Scooters on Nov 23, 2013 15:02:42 GMT -5
Another member mentioned that Koso Variators were a good deal, cheap for the price.  We stopped selling Koso Variators at our shop. Here's why. They are cheap and cheaply made.  Our latest shipment of variators direct from Koso, every single one of them had manufacturing defects. The face was not smooth, it was ridged so much it made a nice noise when you ran your fingernail across it. Until they are worn down they will shred your belt. I've seen it happen within 50 miles. Quality variators are polished smooth so there is no extra wear on the belts and there is a good surface to grab.  The cut edges on the back are razor sharp. Why does this matter? The variator guides (which are plastic) slide up against the sharp edges (which are cut aluminum). The guides won't last very long. The plastic guides themselves are made from a lightweight plastic that will not last as long as Dr. Pulley ones. The ramps are coated with a teflon-like substance. It scratches off pretty easily leading me to believe it is not teflon or it was not applied properly.  The ramp angles themselves are pretty good and it does perform well. Until it shreds your belt or wears through the guides and locks up. We sell Dr. Pulley, Koso, Hoca, Malossi, and a few other brands. The only brand I won't sell anymore unless asked is Koso. Even then I will not offer my generous warranty on it. Take this as you will. Its not a dump on Koso. They are extremely cheap and we sell them (in store) for $18. We sell the Dr. Pulley for $129 installed and Malossi for up to $250. You get what you pay for. Greg |
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Post by tvnacman on Nov 23, 2013 15:21:47 GMT -5
wow greg that's a cheap price that $18 is that with rollers if so what weight 50cc or 150cc ? and how much to ship ?
John
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Post by alleyoop on Nov 23, 2013 15:54:08 GMT -5
I was the one that mentioned KOSO, I ordered TWO from TVNACMAN and they are not DEFECTS they are great. I have had the same KOSO variator on now for over 2 years 2014 will be the 3rd year. Not one single problem with my belts shredding or anything.
True you get what you pay for and those look like FACTORY SECONDS that did not pass muster. If you got that straight from the factory you should send them back because if I ordered one and got one like that I would return it to whoever I bought it from and either refund my money or send me a good one.
You can find those kinds of products all over the place that is why dealers can sell them so cheap because they got them for a song. That is how it works hundreds of factories make this stuff in CHINA BUT it is up to whoever contracts with the factory to specify the quality they want. It is all about cost and profit. If you see something dirt cheap compared to many others that should raise a red flag.
I always say some of use might have been born late but not yesterday.
Alleyoop
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Freshman Rider
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Posts: 94
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Joined: Apr 1, 2013 12:00:42 GMT -5
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Post by Mainely Scooters on Nov 23, 2013 16:53:01 GMT -5
As I said they are hit or miss. Quality was fine at the beginning of the summer. You are absolutely right about dealing with warehouses and manufacturers, especially ones from overseas. They sell the top quality to their big distributors and sell the "rejects" for cheap to lower volume buyers.
I know tvnacman sells only products he personally tests. That is why you got a quality one from him. I opened the shipment from Koso and was sorely disappointed. This last batch I will absolutely not sell to anyone unless I want unhappy customers (or former customer). I'm not going to ship them back as it would cost more than they are worth. I will sand and polish these and use them in my rental scooters.
>> wow greg that's a cheap price that $18 is that with rollers if so what weight 50cc or 150cc ? and how much to ship ?
Both at the same price. We are out of the good 150s, have one 50 left. I'm not going to buy Koso variators anymore. I have not had any issues with the rollers or any other parts.
Your experience may be different. Obviously if Koso ONLY sold crap they would be around anymore (at least under that name). However you won't get Koso Variators from me.
Greg
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Post by millsc on Nov 23, 2013 17:08:51 GMT -5
I have used koso variators on all my scoots with great results six scoots no issue great performance
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Post by JerryScript on Nov 23, 2013 21:04:49 GMT -5
I'm using a Koso variator, only have about 300 miles on it so far. I opened up the CVT after the first week to check things, and everything looks great. There was some extra "noise" the first 50 miles or so, but I just assumed that was the belt being worn to the new variator's shape, haven't had any "noise" after that.
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Post by urbanmadness on Nov 25, 2013 15:04:29 GMT -5
I have a Hoca variator (I think I bought it from you actually) with the teflon, yada yada.... Do they come out of the same place as the Kuso?
I've been happy with my Hoca varaiator... best mod I mad to my scoot.
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Freshman Rider
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Joined: Apr 1, 2013 12:00:42 GMT -5
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Post by Mainely Scooters on Nov 25, 2013 21:30:47 GMT -5
Hoca is a completely different ballpark from Koso, hence the huge price difference. We have never had any issues with Hoca products, except in cases where they are TOO powerful and end up loosening head studs even with loc-tite.
We have sold Koso for 2 years with mostly no issue, it's just been since June or so. You get what you pay for. If I get around to it I'll post a comparison of Dr. Pulley, Koso, and Hoca variators. You can definitely SEE the quality difference. You can also FEEL the difference in balance and weighting of the products.
To those of you that have Koso now, I certainly hope you never have any issue with them. Happy Scooting!
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Post by alleyoop on Nov 25, 2013 23:22:07 GMT -5
Well I can tell you I had a problem with HOCA weights, I ordered 12 gram rollers the package said 12grams. Whenver I order weights I always check them out and weigh them. I weighed them and low and behold NOT 1 was 12 grams they varied from 11.6-11.8 so I emailed the seller and complained sent them back and got a refund. I only order Dr. Pulley weights now.
As for the KOSO you just got a bad batch or SECONDS from the looks of it. There are many on this forum and the other two that have KOSO variators and none have had any problems with them.
My own experience is I have had the same KOSO variator on now going on 3 years.
Alleyoop
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Post by larry001964 on Nov 26, 2013 21:58:46 GMT -5
I'm still looking for a variator that will hold up withstanding the power produced by a stroker crankshaft... NCY, Hoca, and Koso none of them held the power it produced... In truth the old stock variator, made of steel instead of aluminum had held up the best..
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Post by alleyoop on Nov 26, 2013 22:09:14 GMT -5
What does a stroker crank have to do with anything. I have a stroker crank in my motor? Please explain, I am confused as to what a stroker crank or none stroker crank do differently to a Variator.
Alleyoop
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Post by larry001964 on Nov 27, 2013 12:44:15 GMT -5
What does a stroker crank have to do with anything. I have a stroker crank in my motor? Please explain, I am confused as to what a stroker crank or none stroker crank do differently to a Variator. Alleyoop Hummm well your stroker is in a 150 is it not ? Mine was in a 50cc, and the aluminum variators seemed not to take the power produced by it, it would cut thru the plastic guides, then the ramp plate would cut the aluminum guides, perhaps yours being a 150 the metal is stronger I really don't know.. The only explanation i could figure out was the 139 was not designed for speeds really over 45 to 50, With the stroker I actually got 60 mph out of it.. But i tore up a lot of variators doing it... Bought the best names in variators and all pretty much could not deal with the power i was getting... As far as I know i was one of the first to attempt a stroker in a 139 and these were some of the problems I had, I know another user Hank built one and corrected many of the problems I had, he read my post on the old scootdawg. Any way my thinking was the metal was just not up to the power being produced and the weight being moved at that speed.... when your getting performance that is on par with a 150 out of weaker components designed for a 50, well they seemed not to take it very long... Currently Fawkes is just an 83cc, as i had other problems that led to my purchasing a new motor, I would like to try the stroker again, and em looking at components that will withstand the strokers power, and fix some of the minor problems I had with it at the time, like for instance i didn't add an extra base gasket, so yes my compression was high at 205, made starting it hard.. I have figured out how to solve much of the problems i had at the time.. But the variator... That one I'm still working on.. |
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Post by alleyoop on Nov 27, 2013 13:44:04 GMT -5
Millsc runs 50s doing 58mph. But what I contend is a stroker crank or any crank has nothing to do with the variator going bad as a matter of fact with a stroker you loose some rpms due to the extra length of the arm. Your problem appears to be the Plastic Guides that break up then causing damage to the Variator. Being a 150 running high mph would cause the same thing. What I think is most likely causing this is the heat weakening the plastic guides after all apply enough heat and plastics melt. I would try Dr. Pulley guides and if you already tried those then open the CVT up to get more air for cooling it down. The same type of Variators made in china use the same metal to make the differenst size variators just different size moles.
Alleyoop
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Post by larry001964 on Nov 27, 2013 14:48:22 GMT -5
Millsc runs 50s doing 58mph. But what I contend is a stroker crank or any crank has nothing to do with the variator going bad as a matter of fact with a stroker you loose some rpms due to the extra length of the arm. Your problem appears to be the Plastic Guides that break up then causing damage to the Variator. Being a 150 running high mph would cause the same thing. What I think is most likely causing this is the heat weakening the plastic guides after all apply enough heat and plastics melt. I would try Dr. Pulley guides and if you already tried those then open the CVT up to get more air for cooling it down. Alleyoop Don't know what to tell you Alleyoop, I did all you suggested, opened up the CVT cover, tried Dr. Pulley plastic guides, and several other name brands, even welded a build up on the backing plate and doubled the contact area, built custom guides to match the thicker contact area... That solution seemed to work the best, but even doing that the time was limited.... I know Millsc ran 16/50 gearing while I ran 17/49 and i know your right I did turn slower rpms.. My RPM never got above 7500.. It was the torque that gave me so much speed... And perhaps too much stress on the components. Maybe i should have been running 16/50 gearing. Well things are different now, I don't drive Fawkes every day now, like i did back then.. So I have more time to work on these problems and get it right.. Now back to the original thread, Koso didn't hold up at all for me. |
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Post by alleyoop on Nov 27, 2013 16:58:46 GMT -5
Cool, but like you said so it is not just KOSO variators even the best brand ones didn't hold up.
Alleyoop
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..BAD TO THE BONE..
