Post by oldchopperguy on Oct 21, 2013 13:32:11 GMT -5
After a month and a few hundred miles on my "new" used Kymco 250, I thought it might be good to post some "first impressions" on the experience. I have a feeling there are numerous 50cc and 150cc riders out there who might be considering going with a larger-displacement scooter, but hesitate spending much on something they're not sure about.
We all get "comfortable" with our present rides, and tend to "drag our feet" when it comes to sacrificing hard-earned money on something that seems like a good idea at the time. It took a complete redesigning of my local roads, bringing a monumental increase in traffic speeds to get me to seriously consider moving up the food chain. In my case, due to arthritis, I needed to stay with a flat-floor, step-through scooter. I was very happy with my old Xingyue 150, except for its limited performance.
For anyone without any physical limitations, the selection of 250cc and up is limitless. For a flat-floor step-through, the selection is a lot smaller. There are MAJOR differences between the smaller, lighter 250 and up scooters, and the MUCH heavier, longer "maxi" scooters. You really must test-ride both styles to see which will suit you best. Some of the maxi's are longer and heavier than some of the big cruiser motorcycles.
I wanted the closest thing to my old 150 that would still cruise 65-70 mph, and nudge 80 when needed. That's asking a lot from a flat-floor city-scooter. It's limited mostly to a few models from Taiwan, and Italy. To keep the budget under $2,500 I had to stay with a new Chinese scooter, or, a used Taiwan or European offering. I found a GOOD selection of AFFORDABLE, used scooters from Italy, and Taiwan, and to keep the nimble, small-wheel, Asian-style I went with the outdated, yet well-designed old Kymco Grand Vista 250. They're plentiful, and use a proven engine still used in numerous ATV's and off-road karts. They're the next generation after the "Bet and Win" 250 which is very similar, but a tad shorter, with a "hump" in the floor. (There was also a previous Italian-styled Kymco, the "Yup" 250) which was very "Vespa-like" but you just don't see them at all.
I've ridden my Grand Vista now for a month, and a few hundred miles... enough to know if I made a good decision. I believe I did.
First, the downside: Compared to my old Xingyue 150, the Grand Vista looks much the same. That's fine, but, the larger engine slightly shortens the leg-room, and, limits the under-seat storage-bin depth. The fuel-tank and coolant reservoir are in the front leg-guard area so there is no "glove-box" there. So on-board storage is less than on the 150. It's noticeably heavier than the 150 (even though similar in size). The 150 weighed 230 pounds, the 250 weighs 360 pounds. Not much different in street-riding, but when manually maneuvering it into tight places, it's like doing so with a passenger aboard... LOL! It takes some getting used to.
Now, the good side: The 12" wheels handle similarly to the 13-inchers on the old 150... Nice and nimble in town, but still good at highway speed. For anyone used to the Chinese 150's, it's an easy transition. Most of the 150 features you liked are still there. (A "maxi" however is VERY different))... Much more like a large motorcycle. The 250 fuel-mileage is about the same as the 150, averaging around 65-70 mpg. Insurance is the same price as with the 150.
Now, the PERFORMANCE... The main reason for my "upgrade"...
Acceleration is downright "frisky". From standing-start, to 45 mph, it's simply a different world. No longer does traffic blow past me on both sides. I'm now "part of the herd"... LOL! I tried out most types of potential rides, and found the Kymco 250 actually had a little better acceleration than the Burgman 400. Less top speed, but slightly more capable from a red-light.
Top-end is just under 80 with my 235 pounds aboard. It will run 70 quite easily. It cruises very nicely at a sedate 65 mph if traffic will allow that slow a pace. (The speedo reads 3-4 mph "optimistic" and the speeds mentioned are actual, not indicated). Rolling on the throttle up a steep inclined freeway entrance is a downright pleasure. Running with traffic from an in-town red-light is a whole different world. On local 4-lanes, I stay with traffic in the 45 mph-limit, and usually find I'm showing 60-70 on the speedo (actually a true 56-66 mph). And THAT is EXACTLY why I upsized to the bigger engine.
Mid-range roll-on is as good as a typical 250cc motorcycle, allowing me to stay "competitive" with most traffic, even up-hill and against strong headwind. THESE are the things that were missing with the 150. It's certainly no rocket, but quite adequate (like an average car) for my needs. The 150 simply was lacking in capability, and I found myself running WOT most all the time, from stop to cruise. That is no good for the scooter, and the speeds were still downright dangerously slow compared to traffic.
The Kymco Grand Vista was designed as Kymco's "ultimate touring scooter". THAT goal, they missed by a mile, and later achieved with their bigger maxi's with bigger 4-valve, fuel-injected engines. What Kymco DID accomplish however, was to inadvertently create an "ultimate multi-purpose scooter". Really! The old Grand Vista is truly in the tradition of the Italian fast, small-wheel scooters that "scoot" in town, and still "cruise" on the freeway when necessary. (The maxi's on the other hand will cruise nicely on the freeway, and still "scoot" in town when necessary.)
Though my experience with the 250 is limited, it's enough to convince me that it was a good, low-budget improvement to my 2-wheel transportation needs. For 50cc and 150cc riders who truly need more performance, I believe I can safely recommend the upgrade. For those like myself, on a VERY tight budget, it will likely be a new Chinese model, or, a used Japanese, Taiwanese or European ride. If you DO decide to take the plunge, please be sure to test-ride ALL types to be sure of getting the right type for YOUR personal needs and preferences. In the 250 to 800cc scooter world, the offerings are as DIFFERENT from each other as family cars, pickup trucks, vans and sports cars.
If you want to stay with something similar to your smaller scooter, check out the smaller 250-300's from Kymco, SYM, Vespa, and other Italian makers. If you want a more "motorcycle" style ride with LONG wheelbase, and big wheels, try the "maxi" scooters like the Burgmans, Reflexes, Silver Eagles, Morphous, etc.
I hope my experience may make it easier for others to decide whether to upsize, or stay with their original scooters.
Ride safe,
Leo in Texas
We all get "comfortable" with our present rides, and tend to "drag our feet" when it comes to sacrificing hard-earned money on something that seems like a good idea at the time. It took a complete redesigning of my local roads, bringing a monumental increase in traffic speeds to get me to seriously consider moving up the food chain. In my case, due to arthritis, I needed to stay with a flat-floor, step-through scooter. I was very happy with my old Xingyue 150, except for its limited performance.
For anyone without any physical limitations, the selection of 250cc and up is limitless. For a flat-floor step-through, the selection is a lot smaller. There are MAJOR differences between the smaller, lighter 250 and up scooters, and the MUCH heavier, longer "maxi" scooters. You really must test-ride both styles to see which will suit you best. Some of the maxi's are longer and heavier than some of the big cruiser motorcycles.
I wanted the closest thing to my old 150 that would still cruise 65-70 mph, and nudge 80 when needed. That's asking a lot from a flat-floor city-scooter. It's limited mostly to a few models from Taiwan, and Italy. To keep the budget under $2,500 I had to stay with a new Chinese scooter, or, a used Taiwan or European offering. I found a GOOD selection of AFFORDABLE, used scooters from Italy, and Taiwan, and to keep the nimble, small-wheel, Asian-style I went with the outdated, yet well-designed old Kymco Grand Vista 250. They're plentiful, and use a proven engine still used in numerous ATV's and off-road karts. They're the next generation after the "Bet and Win" 250 which is very similar, but a tad shorter, with a "hump" in the floor. (There was also a previous Italian-styled Kymco, the "Yup" 250) which was very "Vespa-like" but you just don't see them at all.
I've ridden my Grand Vista now for a month, and a few hundred miles... enough to know if I made a good decision. I believe I did.
First, the downside: Compared to my old Xingyue 150, the Grand Vista looks much the same. That's fine, but, the larger engine slightly shortens the leg-room, and, limits the under-seat storage-bin depth. The fuel-tank and coolant reservoir are in the front leg-guard area so there is no "glove-box" there. So on-board storage is less than on the 150. It's noticeably heavier than the 150 (even though similar in size). The 150 weighed 230 pounds, the 250 weighs 360 pounds. Not much different in street-riding, but when manually maneuvering it into tight places, it's like doing so with a passenger aboard... LOL! It takes some getting used to.
Now, the good side: The 12" wheels handle similarly to the 13-inchers on the old 150... Nice and nimble in town, but still good at highway speed. For anyone used to the Chinese 150's, it's an easy transition. Most of the 150 features you liked are still there. (A "maxi" however is VERY different))... Much more like a large motorcycle. The 250 fuel-mileage is about the same as the 150, averaging around 65-70 mpg. Insurance is the same price as with the 150.
Now, the PERFORMANCE... The main reason for my "upgrade"...
Acceleration is downright "frisky". From standing-start, to 45 mph, it's simply a different world. No longer does traffic blow past me on both sides. I'm now "part of the herd"... LOL! I tried out most types of potential rides, and found the Kymco 250 actually had a little better acceleration than the Burgman 400. Less top speed, but slightly more capable from a red-light.
Top-end is just under 80 with my 235 pounds aboard. It will run 70 quite easily. It cruises very nicely at a sedate 65 mph if traffic will allow that slow a pace. (The speedo reads 3-4 mph "optimistic" and the speeds mentioned are actual, not indicated). Rolling on the throttle up a steep inclined freeway entrance is a downright pleasure. Running with traffic from an in-town red-light is a whole different world. On local 4-lanes, I stay with traffic in the 45 mph-limit, and usually find I'm showing 60-70 on the speedo (actually a true 56-66 mph). And THAT is EXACTLY why I upsized to the bigger engine.
Mid-range roll-on is as good as a typical 250cc motorcycle, allowing me to stay "competitive" with most traffic, even up-hill and against strong headwind. THESE are the things that were missing with the 150. It's certainly no rocket, but quite adequate (like an average car) for my needs. The 150 simply was lacking in capability, and I found myself running WOT most all the time, from stop to cruise. That is no good for the scooter, and the speeds were still downright dangerously slow compared to traffic.
The Kymco Grand Vista was designed as Kymco's "ultimate touring scooter". THAT goal, they missed by a mile, and later achieved with their bigger maxi's with bigger 4-valve, fuel-injected engines. What Kymco DID accomplish however, was to inadvertently create an "ultimate multi-purpose scooter". Really! The old Grand Vista is truly in the tradition of the Italian fast, small-wheel scooters that "scoot" in town, and still "cruise" on the freeway when necessary. (The maxi's on the other hand will cruise nicely on the freeway, and still "scoot" in town when necessary.)
Though my experience with the 250 is limited, it's enough to convince me that it was a good, low-budget improvement to my 2-wheel transportation needs. For 50cc and 150cc riders who truly need more performance, I believe I can safely recommend the upgrade. For those like myself, on a VERY tight budget, it will likely be a new Chinese model, or, a used Japanese, Taiwanese or European ride. If you DO decide to take the plunge, please be sure to test-ride ALL types to be sure of getting the right type for YOUR personal needs and preferences. In the 250 to 800cc scooter world, the offerings are as DIFFERENT from each other as family cars, pickup trucks, vans and sports cars.
If you want to stay with something similar to your smaller scooter, check out the smaller 250-300's from Kymco, SYM, Vespa, and other Italian makers. If you want a more "motorcycle" style ride with LONG wheelbase, and big wheels, try the "maxi" scooters like the Burgmans, Reflexes, Silver Eagles, Morphous, etc.
I hope my experience may make it easier for others to decide whether to upsize, or stay with their original scooters.
Ride safe,
Leo in Texas
Anyways it's like I said, "size matters" What would you rather NOT run into on the road? A squirrel or a ten point buck? (I've got a 60 inch wheelbase so they keep their distance)