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Post by sailracer on Sept 2, 2013 8:25:56 GMT -5
truth be told, you would be hard pressed nowadays to buy anything that is not made in china.They are now the world's premeir industrial superpower.American people are so quick to condemn (me too), but The truth is, Americans do not want to work in any industrial or manufacturing places anymore. I have been in the industrial trade for over 30 yrs, and hired american people who walk off the job at lunchtime or after a couple of days.American kids have become fat,lazy,crude and addicted to their "high tech" devices. The better workers are the immigrants.Thats the way it is. Chinese people are eager to work in ANY job americans are not.
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Post by millsc on Sept 2, 2013 8:56:12 GMT -5
If you do chose to buy a cheap china bike you should be ready for problems, mine came with bolts missing and kick start was broke out of the box. Screws and bolts were loose it would of been dangerous if i didn't take it apart and replace all the stuff, i knew this and expected it. I have so many spare parts that i replaced all the stuff including kickstart so i was happy, but most that don't have parts or mechanical knowledge would have been in danger.
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Post by RapidJim on Sept 2, 2013 9:03:23 GMT -5
Oh PULEEEZE! It is common knowledge that the price for a Chinese 250 scoot is anywhere from $1600-$2200 TOPS! And please, enough with the $2999 already. The reality is you paid THREE GRAND for you scoot and after taxes and dealer prep more like three and a quarter or four. Even taking just the base price, your scoot ran $800 MORE than the highest end cost of the Chinese product. Did you get a good deal for your Aprilia scoot? It would seem so, and I've enjoyed reading about it many-many-many times. but that still does not alter the fact that it carries a much higher price or that for someone who is a "Wrench" the Chinese scooter just makes more economic sense. There you go spreading misinformation again. I walked into the Chinese clone shops local to me and didn't just look at the price tags but asked for hard quotes and real prices so what I posted is what I was quoted as the real hard local prices not counting tax and title from several brick and mortor local Chinese Clone dealers in the Tampa Bay Florida area. I walked into the Aprilia dealer on a lark to see for myself if it was just snootiness or if there was any real value to paying $5,000 plus for an Italian bike as some folks here had mislead me to believe was the real world price. First thing that I found was that the Italian bikes were heavily discounted and only selling for a few hundred dollars more than the Chinese equivalents and that banks would offer 4 or 5 year financing on them with the dealers even offering 0% financing with $0 down which is much better compared to the Clone Dealers only offering to take credit cards and no bank or credit union offering a secured loan on a Chinese bike. At that $5,000 + price that everyone had been telling me about I found that I could have gotten an 850cc Aprilia Sport bike with a hybrid multimode automatic/manual transmission. Even the Aprilia Scarabeo 500cc scooter was just $3,999 plus tax, title and state/county fees. The bottom line was while I could not afford the cost of purchasing a Chinese bike I could in my budget afford the Aprillia which comparatively the monthly payment costs me less than many here pay for their monthly cable tv or cell phone bills. How may here tried to save money buying a Chinese bike on-line using a credit card and then had to further burden that card with the extra repairs and setup costs then to be only able to make the minimum payments for many years to scrape by when they could have bought an Aprillia on a fixed term 3 or 4 year loan for less money in the long run. In the Real World where I live the Chinese Clone scooter still required Tax, Title, etc just like the Aprilia so when the smoke cleared it was still just a $200 to $300 final price difference. Factor a 20% to 30% credit card on the Chinese Clone purchase compared to 0% to 3.5% dealer financing and the savings from buying a Chinese Clone locally evaporates and then swings in the other direction with the locally purchased Chinese bike in the final analysis costing much more than the Aprilia. As for common knowledge that everyone knows, that was debunked as just misinformation the moment I walked into a number of local Chinese Clone dealerships and read the price tags and got written price quotes on the bikes I was looking at. Some were quoting almost $3,000 for a Znen 150 which I passed off as just a local rip-off artist and did not bother to mention before as real street prices since they were so obviously over inflated. These are the personally verified facts that I learned from actually visiting Clone and Mainstream dealerships locally and working out the numbers in person face to face with the managment. Where the heck do you live? Are you serious with this statement? Milltown, Wisconsin population almost 900, Royal Federal Credit Union has given secure loans to several of my customers for Ice Bear Trikes and Roketa Scooters. Fransen Bank, Luck Wisconsin, just up the road, has also given secured loans for the same, Bremmer Bank, Frederick, Wi, same thing, secured loans on Chinese machines. I recently had a customer in another State order a Trike to be dropped shipped to her. Her Credit Union wired the money to my account before I even had the VIN number. All I had to do was fax a Purchase Order. |
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Post by spandi on Sept 2, 2013 9:06:04 GMT -5
There, is the missing part of this whole story. Chinese scoots come in VARIOUS levels of quality. Mine had NONE of the issues you mentioned, but it did cost more. Chinese manufacturer's are not a monolith, and there is a wide spectrum of build quality.
BTW, was this the Ballistic 150?
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Post by rockynv on Sept 2, 2013 9:08:11 GMT -5
Misinformation? Since when is $1650.00 Plus 2 or 3 hundred (the price difference according to you) equal to 3 or 4 THOUSAND? If you wish to engage in feel-good thinking about not having bought your scoot from "local ripoff artists" as a way of convincing yourself the oft repeated "deal" you got was better than it was, so be it. But do not try and delude others that the difference between say, a Roketa 250 www.superiorpowersports.com/250cc_Gas_Scooter_p/rk250sc-54b.htm (probably the most common 250 purchase) and an Aprilia is "ONLY" a couple of C notes. Reality will prove otherwise every time. I guess you have a problem comprehending that I have not spoken of other than local prices which I just verified this morning. I have taken great care to be explicit about my prices being "Real World Prices" from "Local Brick and Mortor Shops" selling Chinese Clones Bikes in the "Tampa Bay Florida" market. 50cc Chinese Clones sell locally for $1,199 to $1,399 while 150cc Chinese Clones sell locally for $1,499 to $1,799 and 250cc Chinese Clones sell locally for $2,599 to $2,799 and again that is from "Local" brick and mortor stores in Tampa Bay verified as of about 20 minutes ago. You are not comparing apples to apples if you compare a drop shipped bike to a name brand bike from a local dealer as that would be an unfair comparison. I am comparing pricing from a half dozen or so Local Chinese Clone Dealers to Local Name Brand Dealers and I have left out the pricing from the local Ripp-Off Chinese Clone Dealers to make it fair, of which fact I have also clearly disclosed. Lets be really clear and explicit now that I have been talking above about "Local" prices from "Local Dealers". To me there is no value in buying a bike on-line with a credit card at 20% to 30% even at the $1,889.  that the Roketa 54B real price comes out to be with just a 30 days parts only warranty. If you match the warranty on the time frame bumping it to 1 year parts only the Roketa bike then becomes $1,988. and you still need to pay sales tax on registration along with fully service the bike changing the antifreeze, engine oil, gear lube and brake fluid adding another $50 to $100 for the fluids only if you do it yourself more if you pay someone. If you want fuel injection or a even only a reliable belt then that will cost you extra also. Most too will be making the minimum payment on the credit card which can drag the total cost up to potential $6,000 to $8,000 dollars when for little to no money down with 3 or 4 year dealer financing the total cost of the $2,999 Aprilia will be around $4,000 or potentially half the cost of buying the self service bargain on-line with a credit card. In the final analysis you end up with much less bike for a lot more money with the bike being past its usefull service life well before it has been paid for when you buy a bargain on-line with a credit card. Indeed a Chinese Clone bike can be great fun but just like a fake Rolex it is what it is and not the really great value many make them out to be. They are a roll of the dice and something I couldn't afford to gamble on a second time. Pesonally I did not have to cash to pay out on the basically, now lets be honest, $2,000 internet special 54B and would have had to finance it one way or another. When amortizing out all the various finance options on a 54B or Vog 260 (credit card, second mortgage) it became very clear that the Aprilia with local dealer financing along with a full service 12 month warranty (for a few hundred more I bumped it to a full 4 years), free factory technical services and actual free recall services if required was the cost and value leader by a landslide. |
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Post by millsc on Sept 2, 2013 9:09:20 GMT -5
[replyingto=spandi]spandi[/replyingto]yep my ballastic is 150cc or was before bbk ;D
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Post by spandi on Sept 2, 2013 9:09:54 GMT -5
Hey Jim, This must be the same dealer who charges 3k for a Roketa!  |
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Post by spandi on Sept 2, 2013 9:20:34 GMT -5
Misinformation? Since when is $1650.00 Plus 2 or 3 hundred (the price difference according to you) equal to 3 or 4 THOUSAND? If you wish to engage in feel-good thinking about not having bought your scoot from "local ripoff artists" as a way of convincing yourself the oft repeated "deal" you got was better than it was, so be it. But do not try and delude others that the difference between say, a Roketa 250 www.superiorpowersports.com/250cc_Gas_Scooter_p/rk250sc-54b.htm (probably the most common 250 purchase) and an Aprilia is "ONLY" a couple of C notes. Reality will prove otherwise every time. I guess you have a problem comprehending that I have not spoken of other than local prices which I just verified this morning. I have taken great care to be explicit about my prices being "Real World Prices" from "Local Brick and Mortor Shops" selling Chinese Clones Bikes in the "Tampa Bay Florida" market. 50cc Chinese Clones sell locally for $1,199 to $1,399 while 150cc Chinese Clones sell locally for $1,499 to $1,799 and 250cc Chinese Clones sell locally for $2,599 to $2,799 and again that is from "Local" brick and mortor stores in Tampa Bay verified as of about 20 minutes ago. You are not comparing apples to apples if you compare a drop shipped bike to a name brand bike from a local dealer as that would be an unfair comparison. I am comparing pricing from a half dozen or so Local Chinese Clone Dealers to Local Name Brand Dealers and I have left out the pricing from the local Ripp-Off Chinese Clone Dealers to make it fair, of which fact I have also clearly disclosed. Lets be really clear and explicit now that I have been talking above about "Local" prices from "Local Dealers". To me there is no value in buying a bike on-line with a credit card at 20% to 30% even at the $1,889. that the Roketa 54B real price comes out to be with just a 30 days parts only warranty. If you match the warranty on the time frame bumping it to 1 year parts only the Roketa bike then becomes $1,988. and you still need to pay sales tax on registration along with fully service the bike changing the antifreeze, engine oil, gear lube and brake fluid adding another $50 to $100 for the fluids only if you do it yourself more if you pay someone. If you want fuel injection or a even only a reliable belt then that will cost you extra also. Most too will be making the minimum payment on the credit card which can drag the total cost up to potential $6,000 to $8,000 dollars when for little to no money down with 3 or 4 year dealer financing the total cost of the $2,999 Aprilia will be around $4,000 or potentially half the cost of buying the self service bargain on-line with a credit card. In the final analysis you end up with much less bike for a lot more money with the bike being past its usefull service life well before it has been paid for when you buy a bargain on-line with a credit card. Indeed a Chinese Clone bike can be great fun but just like a fake Rolex it is what it is and not the really great value many make them out to be. They are a roll of the dice and something I couldn't afford to gamble on a second time. Pesonally I did not have to cash to pay out on the basically, now lets be honest, $2,000 internet special 54B and would have had to finance it one way or another. When amortizing out all the various finance options on a 54B or Vog 260 (credit card, second mortgage) it became very clear that the Aprilia with local dealer financing along with a full service 12 month warranty (for a few hundred more I bumped it to a full 4 years), free factory technical services and actual free recall services if required was the cost and value leader by a landslide. Oh come on! Now we're up to between 6 and 8 THOUSAND! ....FOR A CHINESE SCOOT?!!! WHERE DO YOU SHOP? PINOCCHIO MOTORS OF FLORIDA? |
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Post by millsc on Sept 2, 2013 9:31:15 GMT -5
I have 1400 dollars total in mine with mods plates and registration  |
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Post by RapidJim on Sept 2, 2013 9:56:27 GMT -5
There is something to be said about the fact that the "Public Safety Announcements" (had no idea they were a branch of government) are over 4 years old, and do not reflect the ever evolving state of Chinese manufacture. Excellent point! Some people are reading and repeating information that is years old and have failed to research present day information. Give credit where credit is due. The Chinese machines are not the same as they were years ago and most of the "stuff" I have read here does not even apply any more. Another point that I brought up and no one has commented on is: Fact: All Chinese scooters have a US Federal Certificate Label attached to the frame stating that the machine meets US Safety Standards. Otherwise the scooter can not be sold in the US for use on US highways.As I have said many times, Chinese Scooters/Trikes are the only machine you can have dropped shipped to your door in a crate. I don't care what machine you buy, shipping across the ocean in a container and across the country can cause things to become loose and in some cases break. In the case of a Japanese machine, the B&M dealers does the assembly and PDI before the machine is sold and hopefully has caught anything that needs attention and the consumer does not know what was tighten or replaced. The difference being, the consumer has the responsibility to assemble and PDI their Chinese machine or have someone do it for them. Here is the sad part, many on line dealers do not inform their customers of what they need to do. You order on line, pay on line and never talk to a human being. This is where issues arise and IMO has a great deal to do with Chinese machines getting a bad name from some. Some of us, do things a bit different. We actually talk to our customers and let them know what to expect and what they need to do. Also, some of us actually have a shop and work on machines. In my case, you must call to order, I do not have a shopping cart on my site. Unlike many distributors, Ice Bear gives the customer the option of a full PDI and assembly that is done in CA at the warehouse, by a checklist, not the "PDI" that is done at the factory, which is only a QA check. The machine is then put on a pallet, wrapped and shipped to the customer. This helps the average person that does not have the means or knowledge to assemble their own machine. Simply add gas, check the machine over and then go for a ride. Are things perfect? Not always. Does Ice Bear stand behind what they do? Yes they do. Have I ever had a problem, warranty issue, or something break in shipping? Yes I have and Ice Bear and I have handled it. People, there are good and bad about everything out there. Chinese, Japanese, Taiwanese, Korean, ect, there are "lemons" and bad dealers and there are great machines and good dealers. IMO, to make the statement that all Chinese machines are "JUNK" or "INFERIOR" is totally untrue and basis. I still make the statement, that dollar for dollar a Chinese machine is a good deal and will give many miles and years of enjoyment. |
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Post by RapidJim on Sept 2, 2013 10:04:38 GMT -5
Hey Jim, This must be the same dealer who charges 3k for a Roketa! Must be |
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Post by spandi on Sept 2, 2013 10:07:07 GMT -5
Thanks for the compliments Jim. I think the future will slowly see more and more of this type of scooter quality becoming the norm.
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Post by RapidJim on Sept 2, 2013 10:25:53 GMT -5
Misinformation? Since when is $1650.00 Plus 2 or 3 hundred (the price difference according to you) equal to 3 or 4 THOUSAND? If you wish to engage in feel-good thinking about not having bought your scoot from "local ripoff artists" as a way of convincing yourself the oft repeated "deal" you got was better than it was, so be it. But do not try and delude others that the difference between say, a Roketa 250 www.superiorpowersports.com/250cc_Gas_Scooter_p/rk250sc-54b.htm (probably the most common 250 purchase) and an Aprilia is "ONLY" a couple of C notes. Reality will prove otherwise every time. I guess you have a problem comprehending that I have not spoken of other than local prices which I just verified this morning. I have taken great care to be explicit about my prices being "Real World Prices" from "Local Brick and Mortor Shops" selling Chinese Clones Bikes in the "Tampa Bay Florida" market. 50cc Chinese Clones sell locally for $1,199 to $1,399 while 150cc Chinese Clones sell locally for $1,499 to $1,799 and 250cc Chinese Clones sell locally for $2,599 to $2,799 and again that is from "Local" brick and mortor stores in Tampa Bay verified as of about 20 minutes ago. You are not comparing apples to apples if you compare a drop shipped bike to a name brand bike from a local dealer as that would be an unfair comparison. I am comparing pricing from a half dozen or so Local Chinese Clone Dealers to Local Name Brand Dealers and I have left out the pricing from the local Ripp-Off Chinese Clone Dealers to make it fair, of which fact I have also clearly disclosed. Lets be really clear and explicit now that I have been talking above about "Local" prices from "Local Dealers". To me there is no value in buying a bike on-line with a credit card at 20% to 30% even at the $1,889. that the Roketa 54B real price comes out to be with just a 30 days parts only warranty. If you match the warranty on the time frame bumping it to 1 year parts only the Roketa bike then becomes $1,988. and you still need to pay sales tax on registration along with fully service the bike changing the antifreeze, engine oil, gear lube and brake fluid adding another $50 to $100 for the fluids only if you do it yourself more if you pay someone. If you want fuel injection or a even only a reliable belt then that will cost you extra also. Most too will be making the minimum payment on the credit card which can drag the total cost up to potential $6,000 to $8,000 dollars when for little to no money down with 3 or 4 year dealer financing the total cost of the $2,999 Aprilia will be around $4,000 or potentially half the cost of buying the self service bargain on-line with a credit card. In the final analysis you end up with much less bike for a lot more money with the bike being past its usefull service life well before it has been paid for when you buy a bargain on-line with a credit card. Indeed a Chinese Clone bike can be great fun but just like a fake Rolex it is what it is and not the really great value many make them out to be. They are a roll of the dice and something I couldn't afford to gamble on a second time. Pesonally I did not have to cash to pay out on the basically, now lets be honest, $2,000 internet special 54B and would have had to finance it one way or another. When amortizing out all the various finance options on a 54B or Vog 260 (credit card, second mortgage) it became very clear that the Aprilia with local dealer financing along with a full service 12 month warranty (for a few hundred more I bumped it to a full 4 years), free factory technical services and actual free recall services if required was the cost and value leader by a landslide. You really have a way with numbers, misguided, but a way with them. To me there is no value in buying a bike on-line with a credit card at 20% to 30% even at the $1,889. that the Roketa 54B real price comes out to be with just a 30 days parts only warranty.Really? You must have a really high interest rate on your card. Most are 11.99% to 17.99%, better if you have good credit, my personal card is 7.99% and my business card is 11.99%. I do agree about the 30 day parts warranty, you did leave out the 6 month motor warranty. That is what Roketa gives their dealers, what the dealer offers can be totally different. www.roketa.com/information/13.shtml This is Roketa's Dealer's Warranty which is not as good as other distributors/manufactures. If you want fuel injection or a even only a reliable belt then that will cost you extra also.I agree on fuel injection costing you more, however, when was the last time you opened a Roketa CVT? Everyone have I have checked in the past few years was a Gates Powerlink. |
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Freshman Rider
Currently Offline
2008 Roketa MC-74-150 /2009 Kymco People 150
Posts: 71
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Joined: Jul 19, 2013 11:08:46 GMT -5
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Post by sanmar on Sept 2, 2013 10:29:45 GMT -5
 ) Very well put!
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Post by spandi on Sept 2, 2013 10:35:04 GMT -5
20-30%? He must be putting his scooter purchases on that new "Godfather Visa" I've been hearing about. (how else can you buy an $8000 dollar Roketa?) BTW, Gates Powerlink belt, Yuasa battery, NGK sparkling plug all standard. |
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jet
that the Roketa 54B real price comes out to be with just a 30 days parts only warranty. If you match the warranty on the time frame bumping it to 1 year parts only the Roketa bike then becomes $1,988.
