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Post by endru on Aug 19, 2013 21:35:25 GMT -5
So the aftermarket exhaust system I've had hooked up for a few months now angles away from my scooter... you can see for yourself in the picture. From the rear it doesn't look as bad, but it's kind of bush league and the mounting hardware was a bear to get on right. So my proposed solution is to increase the angle of the existing bend in the pipe, but I have no idea how to do it without taking it to a muffler shop and having to pay out the nose. Does anyone have any tips on how to get this done? Attachments:
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Post by scoots on Aug 19, 2013 21:45:57 GMT -5
get a different header
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Post by jeepsteve92xj on Aug 19, 2013 22:49:24 GMT -5
I find real exhaust shops are nice on price. I am considering having my usual shop UNbend the last bend on my header so that the muffler is nearly parallel to the ground. The Znens rear fenders cover nearly all of the shocks. They go pretty low, and can bang on the muffler as it is.
I will either go down and ask for an estimate and then bring back just the pipe, or bring back the scooter in the van - so it is cool enough to handle.
They charged me $10 to weld the O2 sensor bung onto my pipe (Xingyue EFI conversion). I had duct taped the bung in the best location I could manage.
Real = not Car X or Midas. The Shop I choose makes race pipes got cars and trucks.
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Post by endru on Aug 19, 2013 22:54:18 GMT -5
That is one option, but it's probably my last at this point. It's hard to find a performance header for less than $35, and who knows if that one would even fit any better. I'm entertaining the idea of cutting it off midway down, rotating the cutoff end a bit to get the right angle, then reattaching it. Would JB Weld work for that, or does the pipe get too hot? I would work it so that the new joint wouldn't be load bearing, it would just need to seal the pipe back up.
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Post by oldchopperguy on Aug 20, 2013 1:42:44 GMT -5
That is one option, but it's probably my last at this point. It's hard to find a performance header for less than $35, and who knows if that one would even fit any better. I'm entertaining the idea of cutting it off midway down, rotating the cutoff end a bit to get the right angle, then reattaching it. Would JB Weld work for that, or does the pipe get too hot? I would work it so that the new joint wouldn't be load bearing, it would just need to seal the pipe back up. JB weld won't hold up. Too much heat AND too much vibration. Many have tried it, I've never seen it work. It's best to bend the pipe, or weld the changes, but if not, you might try to find a piece of steel tubing that is a close fit OVER the header. Then, you could cut it, twist the rear into the position you want, with a piece of the larger tubing OVER the cut, and overlapping the cut a couple of inches on each side of the cut. Before putting the steel "patch" over the cut, you can seal the area with a product like "INFERNO" or other ultra-high-temp EXHAUST MANIFOLD REPAIR product, pushing the overpatch in place while the stuff is wet. It REALLY seals, and is good for 2,000 degrees. The repair "goo" dries hard, and is somewhat brittle, so it's NOT a replacement for a weld. Only a high-temp. seal. Best to slit the ends of the overpatch tubing with a saw or cutoff wheel, and clamp each end while the sealer is still wet. LEAVE THE CLAMPS ON FOR STRENGTH. The seal cures by exhaust heat. I used that method to attach an aluminized flex-exhaust header to a stainless chamber "muffler" (since welding couldn't be done with the dissimilar metals) and it's held up great for 1,000 miles so far. You can find small-diameter exhaust clamps on eBay or at RV and implement stores, for RV and generator engine exhausts. You can also find small-diameter aluminized exhaust pipe there for the same applications. Pretty handy! In this picture, you can barely see the connection, but it's there... just below my extended fan-shroud scoop. Header is mated to stainless "chamber" exhaust with "INFERNO" sealer and a stainless clamp.pc screen shotI'd still recommend welding at a shop, but this fix WILL work. It's just not as attractive... (and it can be hammer-broken apart to replace a muffler). Hope this helps. Sincerely,Leo in Texas
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Post by scootnwinn on Aug 20, 2013 1:52:13 GMT -5
The JB Weld will cost as much as having the shop do it. The exhaust patch even more. If $10-15 is too much just bend it yourself...
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Post by rockynv on Aug 20, 2013 3:44:07 GMT -5
If you bend it yourself take it off so you do not damage the studs on the head. You can fill the pipe tightly with play sand to help keep the pipe from collapsing too badly where you bend it. Sometimes and electrician with a conduit bender can also do the job.
When I put dual exhaust in my old Power Wagon I used an electricians portable hydraulic conduit bender to take care of the pipe work.
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Post by endru on Aug 20, 2013 21:27:14 GMT -5
Hey, great suggestions from some of my favorite people on the forum. Thanks! I think I'll try first heating and bending it by hand, though I'm not optimistic there. If that doesn't work I'll cut it and get it professionally welded back together, which is apparently not supposed to be as expensive as I thought it would be. I like your idea too, oldchopperguy. I'm really impressed with all the creative ways you manage to problem solve. I will go with that if all else fails. I'll post an update when I get it worked out.
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Post by oldchopperguy on Aug 21, 2013 0:33:58 GMT -5
Hey, great suggestions from some of my favorite people on the forum. Thanks! I think I'll try first heating and bending it by hand, though I'm not optimistic there. If that doesn't work I'll cut it and get it professionally welded back together, which is apparently not supposed to be as expensive as I thought it would be. I like your idea too, oldchopperguy. I'm really impressed with all the creative ways you manage to problem solve. I will go with that if all else fails. I'll post an update when I get it worked out. You're most welcome!I used the procedure I did because I was mating two different metals... If my whole system was mild steel like most, I'd have had it welded. If you have a hot enough torch to heat a fairly wide area, you can probably bend the pipe enough yourself to suit your needs. You really only need a few degrees of bend. THAT would be ideal! If welding is needed, it shouldn't cost much. As mentioned, it would be cheaper than my "Inferno" repair, and the stainless clamps. I found a local shop that makes custom exhausts and they did my little bit of welding on the header stub, for $5. Took about 10 minutes. I got "lucky"... $10 would be more the "norm"... $20 at a union shop... HeHeHE... Texas just "ain't a union state"... If you only need to bend the pipe a little, it may be OK to "just bend it"... If more bend is needed, you can fill the pipe with sand and it will keep it from kinking. Just be SURE to get ALL the sand back out... You do NOT want any sand finding its way back into the head... like when you try to start it and it fires "backwards" a half-revolution, and sucks through the exhaust port... LO not so L! It'll work. Enjoy the scoot!Leo
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Post by endru on Aug 21, 2013 22:07:31 GMT -5
I was able to make the bend! ;D You can see my handiwork in the picture. I first screwed down the flanged muffler end to a 4x6 board so that I would have something sturdy to grip. Then I traced the angle onto a box so that I could easily check if I was making progress. Then I heated the elbow in question on my stove's gas burner. I was hoping to get it visibly hot (maybe bluish or even red), but after 5 minutes it didn't look any different and I figured it wasn't getting any hotter. I took it out to the garage, laid down some newspaper to protect the garage floor and the pipe... held the board with the pipe attached in both hands, with the very first angle at the beginning of the head pointing down at the ground, then proceeded to simply pound it onto the ground jackhammer-style. I don't know if my description is clear enough, but in any case it worked. It took a lot of force, but eventually I was able to angle it enough (which really wasn't much). It kinked a tiny bit, but I'm not bothered by that. I would show a picture of the header and muffler re-attached to the scoot, but I now have the same problem as jeepsteve: I am considering having my usual shop UNbend the last bend on my header so that the muffler is nearly parallel to the ground. The Znens rear fenders cover nearly all of the shocks. They go pretty low, and can bang on the muffler as it is. My muffler is hitting my rear fender, so I'll have to have the last angle straightened out. I think I'll have a shop do that though, since it's a pretty straightforward job. Tomorrow I'm getting in my new big valve head, so if I can get the exhaust worked out, it'll be happy riding this weekend. Attachments:
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Post by oldchopperguy on Aug 22, 2013 1:56:09 GMT -5
Way to go!
That looks like a good, full-size 1" header too. Your engine will like that!
Ride safe,
Leo in Texas
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Post by endru on Aug 27, 2013 21:07:44 GMT -5
Well getting the exhaust pipe straightened was anything but a straightforward job. Jeepsteve - if and when you get your shop to do it, let me know how. I called about 8 different shops, half of which specialized in performance exhausts and none of them said they could do it, something about the pipe being too narrow for their machine. I finally took it in to a place, and begged them to do anything they could. He threw it sideways into a big wide vice and clamped down on the bend. It mostly succeeded in just putting crimps on either side of the bend. But it straightened it just enough that it clears the license plate and fender. The mounting brackets were totally out of alignment at that point. I cut them off at about the midpoint so that I could use another piece of steel as a cripple and jb weld it all together. It didn't hold So now I'll drill through the cripple and clamp and just bolt them all together. It's not going to look great for now but I just need it to be functional until everything works satisfactorily. So... exhaust pipe saga: done for now. Thanks again for everybody's help!!
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Post by jeepsteve92xj on Aug 27, 2013 22:25:14 GMT -5
I will have to take my pipe down and ask what they can do for me.
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Post by oldchopperguy on Aug 28, 2013 1:11:03 GMT -5
I had a similar experience concerning the exhaust shops NOT having mandrels, or whatever the adapters are called that are small enough to fit the scooter pipes. I believe they COULD use their smallest one, and make a very slight bend without kinking the pipe, but only a small bend. Otherwise, with their Oxy/Acetylene torch, they could heat the entire circumference of the pipe for around a 6" length, and make a shallow bend without needing to fill the pipe with sand. It depends greatly on how much bend is needed.
You only needed a small amount of bend, and THAT should allow some "fudging" with the normal procedures. Your bolted-up system could be made to look fairly presentable if you grind all the rough edges clean, and then paint the whole thing with high-temp header paint... Flat-black is hard to beat, and "covers a multitude of cosmetic sins..." LOL! Really!
Please post pix when it's up and running.
Sincerely,
Leo in Texas
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Post by endru on Aug 28, 2013 5:58:22 GMT -5
[replyingto=oldchopperguy]oldchopperguy[/replyingto]Good call chopper. The pipe is definitely on the fast road to with all its cosmetic sins, so I'll definitely take your advice and paint it jet black. I think it would look pretty good after that. I think the shops use something like this www.harborfreight.com/12-ton-hydraulic-pipe-bender-32888.html and that would have totally done the job, especially if they torched it. Ah well, it'll all be good in the end.
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