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Post by oldchopperguy on Jun 26, 2013 11:50:11 GMT -5
A couple of quick questions about using the various off-road LED "work-lights" for headlights...
I've seen posts here where riders have added these LED lights for night use with good success. I "upgraded" my original 25W headlights for 35W bulbs, but they're STILL totally a joke at night. I've almost hit some horrific construction debris, and pot-holes simply because the feeble yellow "candle-lights" do NOT light up the road at all...
What I don't fully understand is the AC or DC lighting, and its potential problems. My HEADLIGHTS and TAIL-LIGHT come on ONLY when the engine is running, so I'm guessing they are run off an AC circuit so as NOT to drain the battery.
My BRAKE light works however, any time the ignition is on, whether the engine is running or not. So it must be wired directly to the battery.
QUESTION: It would be no problem to wire an LED headlight directly to the battery, with an on-off switch, to give it 12V DC power. THAT light would be used only at night. So, is it feasible to install a switch to TURN OFF the FACTORY headlights at night, using them only as legal lights during the daytime?
Or, is there some reason they must be left on at all times to complete some kind of circuit?
I would think running an 18-27 watt LED headlight directly off the battery at night would not be a problem, so long as the factory headlights could be turned off... But I'm not sure. I don't want to damage any of the fragile electrics on the scoot.
I do realize the LED headlights (available in spot, or wide-beam) are not DOT approved, and not technically "legal". However, they are in use all over on motorcycles (and cars/trucks/Jeeps) around here. They pass inspection so long as the factory headlights are operational, and the LED's are considered "accessories". But the bikers use them exclusively as their main headlights, with the factory lights turned off because they are SO much better. With careful aiming, they don't blind oncoming traffic.
Thanks for any advice!
Leo in Texas
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Post by scooterelements on Jun 26, 2013 12:12:40 GMT -5
I have here at my store LED H4 Bulbs they dont project the beam onto the road. They light up the headlamp really bright but do not actually project the beam. Now i have seen others such as Rigid industries LED Headlamps and those suckers are bright and project a beam similar to HIDS if not better.
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Post by earlwb on Jun 26, 2013 14:56:50 GMT -5
LED headlights can only be used for shows or displays in the USA. The DOT hasn't approved any of them for motor vehicles yet. So at present you can't use them legally on the roads. A savvy police officer could nail you for them. You could even get caught going to get the state inspection done too. But it depends on the tester if he notices it or not.
But from what I have seen so far none of the LED headlights really put out enough light to work well yet. The problem with the scooters is that the alternator doesn't put out enough current to power a strong headlight setup yet. On my scooter I had to put in LED lights everywhere to get to a break even point with the alternator and the headlights always being on. But it is still marginal when the radiator fan is on as it only breaks even on power consumption if the scooter is going over 40mph in speed.
But in answer to your other observation, yes the headlights use AC power off the alternator and the taillights as well. Sometimes even the running lights too. Plus the automatic enrichener heater coil is typically AC powered also. The DC power is for charging the battery, voltage regulator and running the CDI ignition module, instrument panel, et cetera.
Wiring the headlights to work right off the battery itself is interesting. It should work. But it could run the battery down though. Using the AC circuit like normal is not a problem with the LED lights though.
Plus you don't have to worry about forgetting to turn the lights off when you turn the engine off too.
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Post by oldchopperguy on Jun 26, 2013 23:14:47 GMT -5
LED headlights can only be used for shows or displays in the USA. The DOT hasn't approved any of them for motor vehicles yet. So at present you can't use them legally on the roads. A savvy police officer could nail you for them. You could even get caught going to get the state inspection done too. But it depends on the tester if he notices it or not. But from what I have seen so far none of the LED headlights really put out enough light to work well yet. The problem with the scooters is that the alternator doesn't put out enough current to power a strong headlight setup yet. On my scooter I had to put in LED lights everywhere to get to a break even point with the alternator and the headlights always being on. But it is still marginal when the radiator fan is on as it only breaks even on power consumption if the scooter is going over 40mph in speed. But in answer to your other observation, yes the headlights use AC power off the alternator and the taillights as well. Sometimes even the running lights too. Plus the automatic enrichener heater coil is typically AC powered also. The DC power is for charging the battery, voltage regulator and running the CDI ignition module, instrument panel, et cetera. Wiring the headlights to work right off the battery itself is interesting. It should work. But it could run the battery down though. Using the AC circuit like normal is not a problem with the LED lights though. Plus you don't have to worry about forgetting to turn the lights off when you turn the engine off too.
I do believe you're my neighbor here in Grapevine, TX... Right?I know the DOT hasn't approved any LED headlights, so I checked last week when I had the scoot inspected. The consensus was that so long as the scoot's factory headlights come on, they'll consider the LED's as "auxiliary" lights. If I switch off the incandescent headlights and use the LED instead, they basically "don't care"... Sorta like not having mufflers. This IS Texas, after all... I don't think my FACTORY lights are even DOT approved... LOL! Though I'm sure an ex-Detroit or Chicago cop new on the force might be a problem. I did ask a couple of Grapevine officers their opinion, and they both said "who cares... it's just a damned scooter... Crotch-rockets and 4X4's run LED's all the time." I suppose it's a "crap-shoot" legally, but one 27W LED is about 5 times better than my dual 35W incandescent headlights. With all the construction around, I'd surely be happier with some serious headlights at night. All this construction is a nightmare after dark. Gotta think it over...Leo PS: I contacted an eBay seller in China on his, and he replied it IS DC... But made especially for scooters, and can connect to either AC or DC with it's internals somehow set up for either current. He also recommended hooking up directly to the battery, and installing a switch to shut off the factory headlights at night. Of course, China doesn't consider DOT... Their LED light in pix appears to throw a beam like an aircraft landing light! For around 75 yards! Some of these LED's are REALLY S-E-R-I-O-U-S! While drawing less power than the factory pair of 25 watt bulbs. |
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Post by skuttadawg on Jun 26, 2013 23:56:49 GMT -5
Scooter Elements is correct as LEDs are bright but they do not put out a beam like a bulb does . Compare a LED flashlight with one with a bulb . In total darkness the LED may be brighter but when your in an area that has some light but with shadows too the LED flashlight is not as good . Those who ad LEDs often replace the running lights or dash lights with brighter LEDs and some use LED blinkers which need a new relay or resistors so they will work . I did replace my taillight with LED for a 1157 bulb ( many cars use the same bulb in the tail lights ) and it does light up more . I have a red one instead of clear so the lens is great but the tag is not lit up that good but is visible .
I see great with the yellow bulbs as the blueish ones blind me and glare bad in the rain at night .
Since you said you replaced the bulbs I am guessing you have dual headlights like my Magnum does which has the same body as a Peace VIP , 35 watts and I have the LED tail light on this scooter . I am almost legally blind and I can see great at night in any condition since they both burn at the same time where some with two headlights 1 is hi the other is lo beam .
Is this a 50 or 150 ? You may want to look into upgrading your stator to one with more poles since they produce more wattage .
My Echarm has a single 35watt with two little " helper bulbs "on its sides . The helpers on widen the beam a hair . Now the light turns on with a turn of the key rather than when the engine starts , so it stays the same brightness at all times rather than go dim and bright with the change of the RPMs like most do . I can see pretty good with it unless Im way in the country with no street lights .
You may want to see if you can adjust the headlight assemble to raise or lower the path of the beam . Wait until it starts to get dark and have it running on the CS with it pointed towards a wall and adjust the screw accordingly
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Post by oldchopperguy on Jun 27, 2013 1:49:21 GMT -5
Scooter Elements is correct as LEDs are bright but they do not put out a beam like a bulb does . Compare a LED flashlight with one with a bulb . In total darkness the LED may be brighter but when your in an area that has some light but with shadows too the LED flashlight is not as good . Those who ad LEDs often replace the running lights or dash lights with brighter LEDs and some use LED blinkers which need a new relay or resistors so they will work . I did replace my taillight with LED for a 1157 bulb ( many cars use the same bulb in the tail lights ) and it does light up more . I have a red one instead of clear so the lens is great but the tag is not lit up that good but is visible . I see great with the yellow bulbs as the blueish ones blind me and glare bad in the rain at night . Since you said you replaced the bulbs I am guessing you have dual headlights like my Magnum does which has the same body as a Peace VIP , 35 watts and I have the LED tail light on this scooter . I am almost legally blind and I can see great at night in any condition since they both burn at the same time where some with two headlights 1 is hi the other is lo beam . Is this a 50 or 150 ? You may want to look into upgrading your stator to one with more poles since they produce more wattage . My Echarm has a single 35watt with two little " helper bulbs "on its sides . The helpers on widen the beam a hair . Now the light turns on with a turn of the key rather than when the engine starts , so it stays the same brightness at all times rather than go dim and bright with the change of the RPMs like most do . I can see pretty good with it unless Im way in the country with no street lights . You may want to see if you can adjust the headlight assemble to raise or lower the path of the beam . Wait until it starts to get dark and have it running on the CS with it pointed towards a wall and adjust the screw accordingly
I agree with most everything you said. With ambient light from street lights, etc. the LED's don't help all that much. In total darkness though, they are fabulous. My scoot is a Xingyue 150, with the headlights running off the AC system when the engine is running. Any rpm above dead-idle brings them to full brightness. And they're well-aimed. Both headlights are on all the time, and both have low and high beams. The originals were 25W and I replaced them with 35W bulbs. They are better, but not all that good... Usable, but not at all good. Very feeble. A single 27W 5-bulb LED light out-performs both my factory headlights by MANY times, lighting up the road brightly for a good distance. The only problem is the legality of them, and they are now used on SO many vehicles in my area that it doesn't seem to be a MAJOR problem. My vision is good, but the factory lights just are not what I'd like to depend on to see debris, chuck-holes, etc. Here are pix of a 3-bulb LED 15W headlight especially for cycles and scooters... THAT is some AMAZING illumination, and, ONLY 15W. That kind of illumination is better than the halogen headlights on my car!!!  image hostingJust for kicks, I taped a $3 Wal-Mart single LED lantern on the cowl, and even THAT was a major improvement!... LOL! Some of these 5-bulb "work lights" used on off-road trucks (and a LOT of cycles and scooters around here) will light up a path 15' wide and 100' long like DAYLIGHT. Those must be very carefully aimed though, to not blind oncoming traffic.
I'll try a few different things and see what really works.Many thanks! Leo |
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Post by jeepsteve92xj on Jun 27, 2013 6:03:13 GMT -5
I want to see the url for that spotlight!
I have a couple LED driving lights, not yet installed. They are like looking into the sun, but LEDs just do not cast the same light as a florescent or incandescent.
I have different cheap head/miner lights I use for working on stuff at night, and the light is usable , but they wont light up the road. IN close quarters under the hood of the van or whatever, is good, but I think even nightcrawler gathering would be weak.
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Post by earlwb on Jun 27, 2013 6:38:06 GMT -5
Those are certainly quite impressive for LED headlights. They have come a long way in the last couple of years. But the narrow beam can be a problem as it doesn't diffuse much on the sides. I wonder if they have versions with lenses or diffusers built in to help with that or not.
Yeah we are neighbors here. Yeah this construction has been a real pain. If you do get on the new freeway, watch out as they have trhe drain grates arranged so the grill is parallel to the traffic direction of travel which can be really bad if the tires aren't wide enough.
I just wanted to warn you as maybe some of the police or maybe most don't care but there is always that one who does if you are unlucky and encounter him or her. Especially if you get pulled over when the police are after some crotch rocket riders and they are in a high enforcement zone or mode at the time. They have gone after everyone on I75 before when the crotch rocket guys shut the freeway down to do stunts etc. I had run afoul of that one day when they pulled me over and I wasn't even involved and they literally checked everything. I think if they had a portable emissions gas tester they would have used it too.
But on the positive side the LED head lights would alleviate the problem with the current draw on the scooter. When the fan turns on with my scooter I have to ride along at about 40mph plus to keep from draining the battery. So with LED head lights that would help with that a lot. The other thing is the stupid el-cheapo headlight high/low beam switch will burn out over time as they don't use a relay for the switch but allow full current to the head lights to flow through it. So the LED lights would help there too.
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Post by scooterelements on Jun 27, 2013 10:08:52 GMT -5
I have seen this in action and do light up the road extremely bright and use very little watts. With a 11 pole stator or better most can run it. I have seen these mainly on Honda Ruckus Scooters. I have a friend who has one and it is extremely bright! But they are very expensive. www.rigidindustries.com/6-E-Series-LED-Light-Bar-p/e-series-6.htm |
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Post by oldchopperguy on Jun 27, 2013 12:03:28 GMT -5
I want to see the url for that spotlight! I have a couple LED driving lights, not yet installed. They are like looking into the sun, but LEDs just do not cast the same light as a florescent or incandescent. I have different cheap head/miner lights I use for working on stuff at night, and the light is usable , but they wont light up the road. IN close quarters under the hood of the van or whatever, is good, but I think even nightcrawler gathering would be weak. Here's the listing, and item number: Item #221231412565 Listing: 12V 24V 15W LED CREE Day Light Motorcycle Car Off Road waterproof Spot Light Evidently, LED's HAVE come a long way. The Wal-Mart LED lantern I compared with my factory headlights is a 6V single-bulb LED and it will light up the road better than both my current 35W headlights! They seem to have mastered the problem of LED's not throwing a "beam". My current lights run off the AC system when the engine is running. The pair of 35W bulbs have not caused me any problems with battery going low in 3 years of use. So I'm thinking a pair of these 15W LED's draw only 30W when lit, as opposed to the 75W my factory lights use. THAT would be great, SO LONG AS THEY COULD RUN OFF AC. I've heard that's OK, and NOT OK from different sources. IF they will run off 12V AC, I'd simply DISCONNECT the factory HIGH-BEAM wires from the switch, and RECONNECT to the LED's. That way, the factory LOW-BEAM would remain the factory lights; fine for daylight legality, inspections and riding in well-lit areas. Then, if I need the brighter LED's, I could simply HIT THE HIGH-BEAM SWITCH, and the factory lights go out, and the LED's come on. Sounds good anyway... Worst case scenario, I'd think they could be connected directly to the battery. With limited night-use only, the battery-charge should not be compromised. As for the narrow "pencil" beams these throw, there are many similar lights on eBay offered with EITHER a 30-degree pencil-beam, OR a 60-degree flood-beam. A mix of the two might be "perfect" with the flood-beam aimed close up, and the pencil-beam aimed further down the road. Both would have to be aimed "downward" as far as possible, and a little to the right to avoid blinding oncoming drivers. The "blue" appearance these have, and the super-brilliant light are certainly no more blinding than the blue-white asphalt-melting headlights adorning most of the local kid's "tuner" cars and crotch-rockets... When one of those stops behind my car at a red-light, the interior of my car gets lit up like the sun... Can't even read the dash or look in the mirror without going "snow-blind"... A couple of times, I've "flashed" an oncoming tuner to dim his lights, whereupon he flashed me HIS brights... Like, a bazillion watts of warp-nine, direct-sun-squared... LOL!At any rate, I really do want to do some experimenting with these. My entire "hood" is under major construction, and last night I came within inches of hitting a HUGE piece of broken concrete in the middle of my lane. Being the same color and texture as the road surface, it simply did not show up in the feeble yellow beam of my factory headlights. That bugged me enough to go right back in my car, and, sure enough, in my car headlights low-beams, I could PLAINLY see the obstruction (AND a shadow behind it from my lights) nearly a block in advance!Far too many times I've not seen a big rock, broken truck muffler, old car wheel/tire, etc. in the traffic lane at night until it was almost too late to avoid it. The 35W bulbs I upgraded to 3 years ago were a slight improvement over the 25W originals. BUT... They are still no better than the light from my car's TURN-SIGNALS!!! While still better than the lights on my motorcycles of the 1960's, today, that is NOT my idea of "headlights"... Leo (lookin' for something better) in Texas PS: I can't really fault the kids space-age headlights... In the sixties, I did a LOT of country 2-lane driving. I had a '68 Caddy, and mounted a pair of 1,000W aircraft landing lights below the bumper. They had a separate switch, a starter-solenoid and separate batteries in the trunk to operate them... BUT... In TOTAL DARKNESS, they'd light up a path 6-lanes-wide for a half-mile like noon-day sun! NASTY! Today's kids woulda LOVED those! |
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Post by earlwb on Jun 27, 2013 14:52:21 GMT -5
Yeah there were times I wished I had that train locomotive headlight on my scooter, motorcycle or car for that matter.
But I think it draws something like 100 amperes of current at some unknown voltage to work.
I'll have to look into the newer LED headlights more soon too.
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Post by oldchopperguy on Jun 28, 2013 0:17:38 GMT -5
Yeah there were times I wished I had that train locomotive headlight on my scooter, motorcycle or car for that matter. But I think it draws something like 100 amperes of current at some unknown voltage to work. I'll have to look into the newer LED headlights more soon too. It's been SO long ago, I really don't remember exactly how my landing lights were set up. If I recall, they were 24V and drew over 100 amps. I had a pair of marine batteries in the trunk (also handy for winter starts!) and a starter-solenoid to turn them on... and used jumper-cable wires to connect the pair. In the winter, I could turn them on and in a minute or so, they'd clear the snow in front of the car! Good old days for sure! Ride safe,Leo |
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Post by jerseyboy on Jun 28, 2013 9:23:23 GMT -5
As long as the LED is rated at 12v you can wire them to the batt,,alot of LED's are rated lower and would need the proper resistance inline to function properly without blowing...make sure to check the amp draw also.
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Post by oldchopperguy on Jun 28, 2013 10:59:57 GMT -5
I have messaged several of the Asian sellers of these lights, asking about their compatibility with 12V AC hookups. All have said AC is OK to use. (I still have some doubts...)
Most of these are rated for approx. 10 to 30V so the required power range is pretty broad. According to the listings, the 15-18 watt lights draw around 1 to 1.5 amps each @ 12V. Connected directly to the battery, I think this might draw too much, and keep the battery from being properly charged. But, running off the AC lighting system, INSTEAD of the factory lights, it should actually be a little LESS drain on the stator than running the pair of 35W lights I've used for several seasons.
If, in fact, these LED's WILL actually operate properly off the 12V AC system, I should be able to simply disconnect the high-beam switch from the stock high-beams, and re-connect it to the LED lights. Then, the stock low-beams would come on as usual when the engine starts, and remain the "default" headlights for daytime and "not so dark" riding. When I hit a poorly-lit area, I could just hit the high-beam switch and the low-beams go off, and the LED's come on. Anyway, that's how it should work in a perfect world... LOL!
It sounds good enough that I do believe I'll try it out.
I'll certainly post the results...
I think these could be real "life-savers" on the poorly-lit scooters we ride.
Leo in Texas
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Post by jerseyboy on Jun 28, 2013 13:47:26 GMT -5
[replyingto=oldchopperguy]oldchopperguy[/replyingto]I ride around with my hi beams on at night(four halogen not sure how many watt) and nobody flashes me,,they are good enough,,but the low beam is useless.
Let us know bro!!
Tom
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