New Rider
Currently Offline
Posts: 32
Likes: 0
Joined: Mar 3, 2013 12:31:52 GMT -5
|
Post by makarov on May 25, 2013 13:42:10 GMT -5
It is the luck of the draw with any cdi. Color means nothing. They are all mass produced ..painted.. and packaged in China by numerous companies that like to copy one another. The only sure way to tell if a cdi is advancing the timing at higher rpms is by hooking up an induction timing light....taking off the flywheel cover and observing the setting with the engine running. I have tried orange-blue-3blacks- and recently a black one that claimed to be adjustable. The only one that actually advanced the timing was the orange one. At idle it was 2° btdc and would advance to 12° btdc between 2 and 3 thousand rpms. All the others were set at between 10 and 12° btdc. With no change at all at any rpms. The adjustable one was the same with the adjustment screw making no difference at all. All the ones with the 12° btdc resulted in a faster idle. But with the advanced timing at low rpms it puts more strain on the engine under full throttle acceleration. The orange one at 2° btdc and then advancing to 12° btdc is smoother. Just my 2cents. P.S. I am not promoting the orange one. Like I said. The next orange one might not have the same results.
Any non believers out there please check your results with a good timing light.
|
|
|
|
Post by tvnacman on May 25, 2013 14:54:41 GMT -5
It is the luck of the draw with any cdi. Color means nothing. They are all mass produced ..painted.. and packaged in China by numerous companies that like to copy one another. The only sure way to tell if a cdi is advancing the timing at higher rpms is by hooking up an induction timing light....taking off the flywheel cover and observing the setting with the engine running. I have tried orange-blue-3blacks- and recently a black one that claimed to be adjustable. The only one that actually advanced the timing was the orange one. At idle it was 2° btdc and would advance to 12° btdc between 2 and 3 thousand rpms. All the others were set at between 10 and 12° btdc. With no change at all at any rpms. The adjustable one was the same with the adjustment screw making no difference at all. All the ones with the 12° btdc resulted in a faster idle. But with the advanced timing at low rpms it puts more strain on the engine under full throttle acceleration. The orange one at 2° btdc and then advancing to 12° btdc is smoother. Just my 2cents. P.S. I am not promoting the orange one. Like I said. The next orange one might not have the same results. Any non believers out there please check your results with a good timing light. Mak How are you getting the degrees difference in your test . something like this www.scooterworks.com/degree-wheel---clear-plastic-products-11930.php?page_id=193#.UaEV1ZbD_IU or www.scooterworks.com/degree-wheel---aluminum-products-11929.php?page_id=193#.UaEWRJbD_IUI would like to list degrees on the variable timing cdi I have tested with a timing light . I have gotten great feedback from people that have bought them . John |
|
New Rider
Currently Offline
Posts: 32
Likes: 0
Joined: Mar 3, 2013 12:31:52 GMT -5
|
Post by makarov on May 25, 2013 19:10:02 GMT -5
:-[John. I measure the curcumfrance of the flywheel and then measure the distance that the advance is on the outside of the flywheel. As a simple example. Say that the curcunfrance is 20 inches and the advance is measured at 1 inch on the outside of the wheel. That would be 5% of 360 degees which is 18degrees. It can be done easily without a degree wheel. I am glad you have had good luck with your cdi.
Before I decided to accurately measure the advance of the many cdi that I have tried. I was falsley impressed with the performance of a couple. Wishful thinking on my part. One big factor on judging the performance of these carbureted 150s is jetting in regards to temp and humidity vs main and pilot jet size. The biggest factor is the wind speed and direction. Top speed and power is greatly affected by these factors which can change from day to day. I am sure you are aware of this and hope my factual post did not offend you. Best regards Mak
|
|
New Rider
Currently Offline
Posts: 32
Likes: 0
Joined: Mar 3, 2013 12:31:52 GMT -5
|
Post by makarov on May 25, 2013 19:17:47 GMT -5
P.S. I got a message today from the seller of the adjustable cdi. He thanked me for the results of my test and said that he had had other complaints about the cdi but mine was the first one with actual testing and facts. He said he must have got a bad batch from the supplier. He gave me a full refund and said he did not want the cdi returned. I thanked him.
|
|
|
|
Post by alleyoop on May 25, 2013 19:31:43 GMT -5
I have 3 orange CDIs and every single one causes my starter clutch to kickback to much of a fixed advanced setting on them and naturally had to lower the idle due to the higher idle. I even have a NCY orange one thinking that would be better but sameo sameo. So I googled for an ADVANCEING CDI and found one that toted to advance the timing as your rpms went up. I talked to JOHN(TVNCAMAN) and told him if he had them he said no but he would order some. I got one and was amazed NO KICKBACKS when starting and actually had to raise my IDLE it idled so low but came on after my rpms climbed to around 3k. So I bought another just like it from john as a spare, been running with it ever since.
Alleyoop
|
|
New Rider
Currently Offline
Posts: 32
Likes: 0
Joined: Mar 3, 2013 12:31:52 GMT -5
|
Post by makarov on May 25, 2013 19:42:17 GMT -5
 ALLY. Like I stated Color means nothing . The next batch from China could be completely different. I have browsed a couple of Chinese sites offering adjustable cdi for as little as $3. Quality and facts mean nothing to these manufacturers. Regards. Mak.
|
|
|
|
Post by tvnacman on May 25, 2013 20:01:37 GMT -5
Mak , I tested them with a timing light , You can see the ignition move at 3000 rpm . I ordered 3 pcs Alley took 2 I then ordered 20pcs the 20pcs I plugged in and shot each one with a light they all acted the same . My next order will be for 100pcs . When I check them with a timing light if they do not act the same . I will be all over the supplier .
The problem in the Chinese industry is there is so much hype and lies , that when you are truthful people can't believe the truth . The cdi is not adjustable , its larger then the others because it has extra circuitry .
I sold one to someone here that has a scope a dual or quad input . I asked him to post results here in opened forum . He has not , the man is not shy I'm sure if I gave misinformation he would call it to my attention .
I just have not made a video .
John
|
|
|
|
Post by alleyoop on May 25, 2013 20:07:47 GMT -5
Yep and that is why I tried so many, The first one I tried is purple and the rest were all the orange ones. The NCY also orange cost me a lot more but it was the same and they all caused my starter clutch to kickback. My Trike has 200psi and the only one that would not kickback was the OEM one, but of course no timing advance. But the one I got now is a WIN WIN, not advanced at low rpms and advances at higher rpms. Alleyoop  |
|
|
|
Post by tvnacman on May 25, 2013 20:18:55 GMT -5
ALLY. Like I stated Color means nothing . The next batch from China could be completely different. I have browsed a couple of Chinese sites offering adjustable cdi for as little as $3. Quality and facts mean nothing to these manufacturers. Regards. Mak. ok Mak so you got some coin back in the piggy bank , was that cdi adjustable ? Mine is non adjustable plug and play no little screw to turn . You seem pretty good with geometry . I think we spoke on the phone a few weeks ago , was that you ? John |
|
New Rider
Currently Offline
Posts: 32
Likes: 0
Joined: Mar 3, 2013 12:31:52 GMT -5
|
Post by makarov on May 25, 2013 21:32:59 GMT -5
John and Ally. We are on the same page. I am not putting down any suppliers cdi.
As I said. If you trust the Chinese supplier to deliver a quality cdi for $3 and be consistent I respect you decision. BUT. If you have the knowledge and the resources to actually check the timing curve I think you will be surprised at the results and differences regardless of the color
|
|
New Rider
Currently Offline
Posts: 32
Likes: 0
Joined: Mar 3, 2013 12:31:52 GMT -5
|
Post by makarov on May 26, 2013 23:32:56 GMT -5
Yep and that is why I tried so many, The first one I tried is purple and the rest were all the orange ones. The NCY also orange cost me a lot more but it was the same and they all caused my starter clutch to kickback. My Trike has 200psi and the only one that would not kickback was the OEM one, but of course no timing advance. But the one I got now is a WIN WIN, not advanced at low rpms and advances at higher rpms. Alleyoop I had the exact opposite results with the cdis I tested with a timing light. The only one that was not preset at 12° btdc was the orange one which would advance from 2° to 12° between 2000 and 3000 rpms. The rest were all preset at a fixed 12° btdc. Wich resulted in a faster idle and would cause the kickback that you described. |
|
New Rider
Currently Offline
Posts: 32
Likes: 0
Joined: Mar 3, 2013 12:31:52 GMT -5
|
Post by makarov on May 26, 2013 23:54:38 GMT -5
Alley
I am not trying to be disrespectful but if you bought an induction timing light and checked the advance curve of your cdi boxes I would be very interested in your results.
|
|
|
|
Post by tvnacman on May 27, 2013 11:30:08 GMT -5
Mak you seem pretty sharp on the timing (with degrees ) if what I claim to be true would you buy one ?
Let me understand where we could be at conflict , is it that I state that the timing changes from where it is at at idle , then at 3000rpm it advances from where it was at idle ? I would like to understand where your coming from . I did check it with a timing light you can't mark it when it is turning .
I can tell you how it looked , the tdc line at idle was ahead of the light about 1/8 of an inch away in the rotating direction . When it was at 3000rpm (the light moved forward to just before the next line on the flywheel in the direction of rotation , so the spark was coming before tdc mark on the flywheel . When I let off and back to idle the spark comes later the magneto the light was behind the tdc mark .
John
|
|
|
|
Post by tvnacman on May 27, 2013 11:32:11 GMT -5
all of the other cdi's I checked the timing never changed . the light lit at the same exact spot from idle to about 8000rpm
John
|
|
New Rider
Currently Offline
Posts: 32
Likes: 0
Joined: Mar 3, 2013 12:31:52 GMT -5
|
Post by makarov on May 27, 2013 12:39:14 GMT -5
Mak you seem pretty sharp on the timing (with degrees ) if what I claim to be true would you buy one ? Let me understand where we could be at conflict , is it that I state that the timing changes from where it is at at idle , then at 3000rpm it advances from where it was at idle ? I would like to understand where your coming from . I did check it with a timing light you can't mark it when it is turning . I can tell you how it looked , the tdc line at idle was ahead of the light about 1/8 of an inch away in the rotating direction . When it was at 3000rpm (the light moved forward to just before the next line on the flywheel in the direction of rotation , so the spark was coming before tdc mark on the flywheel . When I let off and back to idle the spark comes later the magneto the light was behind the tdc mark . John Thanks for the info John. That is exactly what I wanted to know. My orange one does the exact same thing. If it did not I would buy one of yours. As a follow up. The supplier of the defective adjustable one is going to test a few of his. I committed to repurchasing if he finds one that is truly adjustable. |
|
..BAD TO THE BONE..