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Post by oldchopperguy on Mar 22, 2017 20:46:17 GMT -5
If you can't drive without driver assistance, you shouldn't be driving, sell your ride and take the bus, lol. That's the problem with vehicle manufacturers, they want everyone behind the wheel/handle bars, but not everyone is good to the job, some people shouldn't be driving, lack of attention, way too aggressive, or just plain stupid, among others.  .......Yeah, I always hope the driverless car behind me can "see" my fat butt in time to stop. Just one more thing to worry about along with the drunks, texters, drunk texters, etc. LOL! Have a bone! Leo in Texas |
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No Way
by: pistonguy - Mar 23, 2017 19:18:27 GMT -5
Post by pistonguy on Mar 23, 2017 19:18:27 GMT -5
 The Fake ABS is Worse than Gimmickry, its Mambo Jambo marketing. Its simply a Hydraulic Check Valve, it will only Dump a Pressure spike, more like chatter or stutter. One of the first things I did while un crating my new Scoot was to remove the Check Valve and Throw is as Far as I could, then install a Proper Banjo Bolt. The Rubber Break hose itself was the spongiest I have ever run accrossed, a Bad Buzz combination twas. I had a proper Braided Stainless line custom made in town for $27, She will do a Stoppie Now with One Finger actuating the lever. |
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No Way
by: rockynv - Mar 23, 2017 23:14:57 GMT -5
Post by rockynv on Mar 23, 2017 23:14:57 GMT -5
Most won't notice if the fake ABS valves fails stuck in normal mode but if it sticks in reduced braking mode you can end up with very little to no front brakes.
Too many bike salesmen tell new riders that they should not use the front brake at all because it causes accidents so the untrained may never notice if they are following that type of advice and never touch the front brake lever.
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No Way
by: SylvreKat - Mar 24, 2017 6:46:04 GMT -5
Post by SylvreKat on Mar 24, 2017 6:46:04 GMT -5
Why would real bike salesmen tell anyone such a thing? I'm not sure mine told me anything much about driving at all. And seems like if they did say "don't use the front brakes" and the buyer was in an accident, the seller could be held at least partly liable in our sadly too-lawsuity society.
<'Kat
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by: dollartwentyfive - Mar 24, 2017 9:07:44 GMT -5
Post by dollartwentyfive on Mar 24, 2017 9:07:44 GMT -5
Most won't notice if the fake ABS valves fails stuck in normal mode but if it sticks in reduced braking mode you can end up with very little to no front brakes. Too many bike salesmen tell new riders that they should not use the front brake at all because it causes accidents so the untrained may never notice if they are following that type of advice and never touch the front brake lever. well see, that's the thing about all of this. when i first started riding my 250, my poor 10 speed braking habits carried over to the scoot, and i braked that way. and i braked hard, squeezing both levers equally. there is no question that the ABS on my scoot saved me from at least 1 dump. it wasn't until after i seen my friends leg did i realize a front wheel lockup caused it. only after that did i fully realize the story about braking technique. ABS on motorcycles or not, i can see the merits of both. |
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by: w650 - Mar 24, 2017 9:09:47 GMT -5
Post by w650 on Mar 24, 2017 9:09:47 GMT -5
A buddy of mine did a 500 mile tour with a kid on a new Sportster. Every corner he heard the sound of skidding coming from that bike. When he asked the kid, "Are you using the front brake?" the kid said, "Heck NO! My Dad said you never use that. It will flip the bike over on your head." Ignorance abounds.
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by: rockynv - Mar 24, 2017 22:23:43 GMT -5
Post by rockynv on Mar 24, 2017 22:23:43 GMT -5
Most won't notice if the fake ABS valves fails stuck in normal mode but if it sticks in reduced braking mode you can end up with very little to no front brakes. Too many bike salesmen tell new riders that they should not use the front brake at all because it causes accidents so the untrained may never notice if they are following that type of advice and never touch the front brake lever. well see, that's the thing about all of this. when i first started riding my 250, my poor 10 speed braking habits carried over to the scoot, and i braked that way. and i braked hard, squeezing both levers equally. there is no question that the ABS on my scoot saved me from at least 1 dump. it wasn't until after i seen my friends leg did i realize a front wheel lockup caused it. only after that did i fully realize the story about braking technique. ABS on motorcycles or not, i can see the merits of both. Highlights why all States should make passing the MSF Basic riders course a requirement for getting a Motorcycle Endorsement. Panic stop braking should have been part of the licensing exam. |
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by: dollartwentyfive - Mar 24, 2017 22:35:25 GMT -5
Post by dollartwentyfive on Mar 24, 2017 22:35:25 GMT -5
Highlights why all States should make passing the MSF Basic riders course a requirement for getting a Motorcycle Endorsement. Panic stop braking should have been part of the licensing exam. some of us can't afford such things, i couldn't. besides, experience, getting out there and doing it, is the best teacher. sure, go home at night, and read your motorcycle safety books, then go out looking for the same situations. "panic stops" are all i've ever known, that's why i can't fathom owning a 2 wheeler without front wheel ABS. even rear wheel ABS would be helpful in certain situations. you know how it is on curvy roads you know well. edit: in relation to posts 32 and 33: if i was a "newbie" i would tell the dealer to install ABS on the front wheel. even the pressure reducer type can provide a LOT of safety. remember, anything that reduces a front wheel lockup increases your chance of survival. always use your rear brake for gravel, mud, leaves, painted surfaces, steel plating, at intersections. the only drawback to this is, you just can't crank it wide open. if you are going to run like that, then you need the front brake. i don't know, i don't think i would like a naked front brake. |
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Post by ricardoguitars on Mar 25, 2017 8:37:17 GMT -5
Reading accurately the braking surface on the road is another skill that is vital, I kind of developed a 6th sense for that, the moment I push it a little farther to test if I'M correct, I face the consequences, that's something that nobody can teach you, you have to ride and feel the road to learn it.
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by: rockynv - Mar 25, 2017 9:02:51 GMT -5
Post by rockynv on Mar 25, 2017 9:02:51 GMT -5
You cannot afford not to take the MSF Basic Riders Coarse. Without it you really should not be riding period.
Think of what the untrained stops and exta cost of ABS costs compared to the cost of getting properly trained by skilled instructors. Being drilled for hours by a pro to perfect your panic stop techniques including swerve and stop manuvers to help you avoid accidents.
The costs associated with that first accident over the long haul have cost you more than if you had paid for and taken the MSF Basic Riders Course. Note that even with ABS you will still dump the bike with inappriate front brake technique.
I went into MSF knowding it was an just a useless ploy to take my hard earned money but left realizing that I was wrong and even after riding for 40+ years I still had things to learn or be reminded of as to best practice.
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by: cyborg55 - Mar 25, 2017 9:42:43 GMT -5
Post by cyborg55 on Mar 25, 2017 9:42:43 GMT -5
75% or more braking is provided by the front brake /tire on road surfaces,,,,if you're a fan of abs that's your call,,,when I ordered my last new bmw r1150r it was without abs ,,,even tho they had the color I wanted on the floor with it,,,I look at it this way,,,racers don't use it,,,airbags either, I've hit my brakes hard in my cars/trucks and have had the abs kick in,,,did little to help but scare the bejesus out of me thinking there was something wrong with the braking system,,,,I'm sure the newer systems are much more sofisticated than the antique ones I run ,,,I generally go by the off-road adage " if it ain't there it ain't fu(kin up",,,I don't even look at my tachs when my bikes have them ,,,I use them to set idle then forget they are even there,,,simplicity is the name of the game for me,,,all the nanny switches and geegaws are stripped off first thing,(nothing like jumping a dualsport and have the kickstand switch shut the engine off when you land,,,that's exciting). I'm sure abs gives people a measure of peace of mind and studies and tests show that it does shorten braking distances in adverse conditions,,,but I can do without
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by: dollartwentyfive - Mar 25, 2017 16:41:28 GMT -5
Post by dollartwentyfive on Mar 25, 2017 16:41:28 GMT -5
i'm sorry, but i must choose the chinese ALB for my fronmt wheel.
this still gives me a chance to perfect rear wheel dynamics.
the best plac to test chinese ABS would be sand or leaves on the road.
be aware, there's a good chance you'll dump your ride.
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Post by w650 on Mar 26, 2017 11:34:07 GMT -5
I went into MSF knowing it was an just a useless ploy to take my hard earned money but left realizing that I was wrong and even after riding for 40+ years I still had things to learn or be reminded of as to best practice. A few years ago I took the MSF Experienced Rider Course om my W650. What I learned was that after 50 years of riding I needed to spend a little time periodically playing in a parking lot to shake off the rust. The W was the perfect weapon for the job and we did "The Box" four times in a row easily. I had observed the BRC a couple of times and saw the mistakes the newbies made and made sure I didn't repeat them. At the end the instructor said, "I can't see anything wrong in your skills except you should keep your head up more to improve your distance awareness." The point: Everyday riding is no substitute for practice. In my past I competed at motocross, field trials and field meets (see story below). They honed my riding skills. ABS is a worthwhile addition on a two ton car but on a bike using your head, knowing your limits and the strengths and weaknesses of your equipment will keep you alive. twowheeler.yolasite.com/index/the-trophy |
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by: rockynv - Mar 26, 2017 15:15:15 GMT -5
Post by rockynv on Mar 26, 2017 15:15:15 GMT -5
I went into MSF knowing it was an just a useless ploy to take my hard earned money but left realizing that I was wrong and even after riding for 40+ years I still had things to learn or be reminded of as to best practice. A few years ago I took the MSF Experienced Rider Course om my W650. What I learned was that after 50 years of riding I needed to spend a little time periodically playing in a parking lot to shake off the rust. The W was the perfect weapon for the job and we did "The Box" four times in a row easily. I had observed the BRC a couple of times and saw the mistakes the newbies made and made sure I didn't repeat them. At the end the instructor said, "I can't see anything wrong in your skills except you should keep your head up more to improve your distance awareness." The point: Everyday riding is no substitute for practice. In my past I competed at motocross, field trials and field meets (see story below). They honed my riding skills. ABS is a worthwhile addition on a two ton car but on a bike using your head, knowing your limits and the strengths and weaknesses of your equipment will keep you alive. twowheeler.yolasite.com/index/the-trophyYes indeed it does not replace following best practice. You can spend much more on ABS and the mistakes you make abusing/misusing it than the few hundred taking the MSF course does. It is almost comical though very sad watching someone dumping a high end ABS equipped bike at walking speed stopping in a parking space because they did not get the training nor do they understand the dynamics of how motorcycle brakes work. |
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by: oldchopperguy - Mar 26, 2017 17:22:30 GMT -5
Post by oldchopperguy on Mar 26, 2017 17:22:30 GMT -5
This whole front brake phenomenon has been going on since I was a kid... And THAT is a long time ago... LOL!
Back in my early riding days (1958-1970 or so...) I rode Harley big twins almost exclusively. First, choppers: the chopper jockeys often solved the problem by simply REMOVING the front brake, simply for "cosmetic" purposes... NOT a good idea, and even my "Old Blue" retained her front stopper.
Now, one must note that the cable-pull mechanical drum-brake on a fifties' Hog was just one step better than dragging your feet "Fred Flintstone" style. Stopping a Harley from 60-mph took about a football field. So, WE practiced "avoidance" rather than braking. When the car stoplights started coming on ahead of us, we had to "thread the needle" at whatever speed we were going... Quite an adventure... might evolve into a "code brown" moment... LOL! Still, that PATHETIC front brake DID provide over HALF of the little braking that was available. The pedal-and-rod mechanical drum brake on the REAR could easily lock up the rear wheel, but that didn't provide much "whoa" either. At BEST, I'd estimate a fifties' Hog with both brakes working offered about 20% of the braking available on the worst Chinese scooter today. And THAT is being "generous"...
I have been EXTATIC over simply having hydraulic disks on both ends of modern rides, period... To me, the WORST, grade-C Chinese disks are FANTASTIC... almost a MIRACLE compared to what I had 50 years ago. Of course, cars have gotten that much better too... I've ridden modern bikes and scooters with all types of contemporary brakes, and frankly, I like them all just fine. It's only a matter of testing them out at first to see how they work for you in the real world. Try them on that wet, oily strip in the center of the lane at a stoplight... on sand, gravel, leaves, etc. Chances are that whatever kind of brakes you have, they will be fine as soon as you learn their idiosyncrasies. My current ride, good old "Minnie Mouse" a 2007 Kymco Grandvista 250 has a system that I like quite well... Single disks front and rear, double-piston front caliper and single-piston rear. Right lever applies front-brake only, left lever applies 100% rear-brake and about 20% front-brake. It works great at slow speeds, using only the rear lever, and is controllable on most surfaces at any speed. Above 75-mph I could use a little more braking power, but the old mouse is only supposed to do 67-mph anyway... PLENTY of stop at that speed!
No matter WHAT kind of brakes you have on any bike made in the last 20 years, you probably have more than decent stopping power. Just use common sense... Don't use too much front brake on slippery/loose surfaces... Don't lock up either brake on most surfaces, etc. There is all sorts of safety advice available all over, and you can take safety courses. Through my "learning years" I managed to survive riding bikes with brakes that would be grounds for class-action suits in today's liability-crazy era of blame the manufacturers and forget about riders using common sense. I wonder when we'll see "self-driving" motorcycles? You KNOW it's coming... Yup.
USE that front brake, but use it SENSIBLY... Learn your ride's strong and weak points concerning not only braking, but all aspects of handling. Ride skillfully, sensibly and within your, and your bike's realistic limitations. You'll be just fine.
Ride safe, and watch those crazy "stoppies"... Just my two-cents worth after 55 years of riding... Leo in Texas
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