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Post by dollartwentyfive on Feb 26, 2017 23:11:47 GMT -5
ok, i don't know what to make of this. i downloaded a service manual for the linhai 257. the block does not show the 3 holes referred to, nor does it show the small oblong hole.
the black gasket in picture 3 appears to be the correct 257 gasket.
there are 2 possibilities: the engine you have is not the 257. the 257 has undergone modification since the publication of this particular manual.
there is a logo on the manual "masters of motion ATV"
title: service manual, part #8260
there doesn't appear to be any copyright or revision history.
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Post by bob123456789 on Feb 27, 2017 5:33:44 GMT -5
Okay cyborg55 given it is a common problem in bike issues how do I identify the issue I am facing and solve it? We have the measurements in post 21 to work with.
dollartwentyfiv. Mine is definitely a Linhai 257. I think that the reason the additional hole doesn't show up on the block is because those holes on the head don't connect to the block. The hole on the head connects to a rubber hose that I am guessing is connected to some emissions stuff.
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Post by cyborg55 on Feb 27, 2017 9:29:28 GMT -5
Just measure the depth of the dowel pin holes,,,both of them,,,add them together then measure the dowel pin length,,,the dowel pin total should be less by at least a few thousands,,,,keep in mind when you measure the holes that you keep in mind the dowels are hollow and measurements should be at the sides of the holes
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Post by bob123456789 on Feb 27, 2017 10:12:33 GMT -5
Dowel Pin Hole Head + Dowel Pin Hole Block > Dowel Length
~9.0 mm + ~8.0mm = 17.0 mm
17.0mm >15.9 mm
Please note that the dowel pin hole measurements are approximate since I had to insert a dowel pin and then measure the amount remaining out of the hole.
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Post by rockynv on Feb 27, 2017 13:17:09 GMT -5
Those pins are short enough to work with a plain steel head gasket so with the laminated one you should have plenty of movemement to squish it unless the studs themselves are too short. I could not see clearly enough from the picks if both sides of the head gasket are matching the machining of the head and cylinder. When you put the dowels in the head and lay the head gasket in place on it is the alignment good or are there areas where it just barely covers the cooling ports?
Usually you start bolting the head back on at the top right bolt, bottom left, bottom right and then top left. First time you make them hand tight, next 5 lbs doing all four in the same pattern, 10 lbs doing all four again in the same pattern and then you can consider another increment between that and final torque or just go for it again following the same pattern. After the four main head bolts are torqued then you can tighten the timing chain side cover fasteners. If you do not follow a tightening sequence in an orderly and incremental fashion you can warp or crack the head and end up with frustrating leaks.
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Post by bob123456789 on Feb 27, 2017 14:33:52 GMT -5
rockynv. Here is a picture of the spare new gasket (not the one that leaked.) sitting on the new head with the dowels in place. When I put it together last time I followed the steps from the shop manual which are here: www.manualslib.com/manual/908522/Linhai-2004-Atv-260.html?page=61#manualand here: www.manualslib.com/manual/908522/Linhai-2004-Atv-260.html?page=62#manualShould I use grease on the dowel pins when I reassemble it this time too help them seat deeply in the holes? Something I thought of is I didn't clean or oil the stud threads before putting the nuts on again. While this have impacted my torques? I am not seeing anything real obvious as to why it is leaking oil and antifreeze. Maybe a slight amount of rust in the dowel holes in the block?
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Post by dollartwentyfive on Feb 27, 2017 17:35:54 GMT -5
the first thing you need to do is to eliminate possible causes of the leak. if at all possible, get rid of those acorn nuts. second, ensure your dowels have clearance, this doesn't mean "it appears they clear". this measurement must be made with a depth gauge (T-square type) of micrometer. place dowels in block making sure they seat, measure dowel pin height, record reading, measure dowel pin cavity, record reading. dowel pin height MUST be less than cavity depth. do not take this measurement by "eyeballing it", or by a ruler or yardstick, or pencil, twig, or anything other than a micrometer. the above procedure must be followed, or all you will be doing is chasing your tail.
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Post by bob123456789 on Feb 27, 2017 19:27:41 GMT -5
I will get some nuts, lock washers and flat washers to replace the acorn nuts tonight. This is what I took all my measurements with: www.harborfreight.com/6-in-digital-caliper-with-sae-and-metric-fractional-readings-62569.htmlThe way I measured my dowel pin hole depths in both the head and the block was to measure the length of the dowel. Then I put it in the dowel pin hole. I then measured the amount of the dowel sticking out of he holes and subtracted it from the total dowel length. Is that what you meant when you said to use a T square micrometer? "Dowel Pin height must be less than the cavity depth" Dowel Pin Hole Head + Dowel Pin Hole Block > Dowel Length ~9.0 mm + ~8.0mm = 17.0 mm 17.0mm >15.9 mm
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Post by rockynv on Feb 27, 2017 22:37:08 GMT -5
You may end up with oil leaks if you use lock washers on that head since the valve cover appears to be an integral part of the head with the studs going right through it which is why they use the Acorn nuts to hold it on. Aluminum flat machined washers would be the most you would use with that type of setup if the studs sticking up through the head appear to be too long. You can measure with your calipers to see if the acorn nuts are deep enough to accept the length of the studs sticking up through the top of the head. Oil is many times pumped up via one of the stud bolt channels so if you do not use the acorn nuts you could have issues with oil leaks.
The book calls for oil to be applied to the head bolts so if you put them on dry then yes that would result in the clamping force being too light even though the torque was correct.
Using the end of your caliper is the correct method for measuring depth as long as you were certain to hit the button to calibrate it and zero it out before you began.
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Post by dollartwentyfive on Feb 28, 2017 0:44:38 GMT -5
Using the end of your caliper is the correct method for measuring depth as long as you were certain to hit the button to calibrate it and zero it out before you began. i just cannot picture using calipers to measure depth. calipers, as in the "slide rule" type of micrometer. the depth gauges we used looked like a miniature draftsman T-square, but had the body of the C-clamp type of micrometer. sure, calipers can measure inside diameters, but depth? i don't know man, for some reason i don't see it.
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Post by rockynv on Feb 28, 2017 5:04:48 GMT -5
Using the end of your caliper is the correct method for measuring depth as long as you were certain to hit the button to calibrate it and zero it out before you began. i just cannot picture using calipers to measure depth. calipers, as in the "slide rule" type of micrometer. the depth gauges we used looked like a miniature draftsman T-square, but had the body of the C-clamp type of micrometer. sure, calipers can measure inside diameters, but depth? i don't know man, for some reason i don't see it. Have you ever used or looked at a set of calipers? The back end of them is a depth gauge. More versatile than a single purpose Micrometer which would require a set of three to cover the duties of one decent caliper and faster to use. Stop by your local Harbor Freight or other tool store and hold a set in your hands. You might be tempted to pick one up for you workshop.
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Post by bob123456789 on Feb 28, 2017 9:35:01 GMT -5
rockynv you raised the following issue.
"I could not see clearly enough from the picks if both sides of the head gasket are matching the machining of the head and cylinder. When you put the dowels in the head and lay the head gasket in place on it is the alignment good or are there areas where it just barely covers the cooling ports?"
Does my picture in post 35 address your questions?
I will use the old acorn nuts. See working late and not being able to go get replacements them paid off!
I really want to get this thing back together so I can ride it soon.
What steps do I need to follow to ensure that if I put it back together again it doesn't leak this time?
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Post by dollartwentyfive on Feb 28, 2017 12:23:42 GMT -5
Have you ever used or looked at a set of calipers? The back end of them is a depth gauge. DOH. and to think i used them almost every day. it's quite possible that the calipers we used wasn't design to measure depth, because we were never told they could be used as such. but yeah, that particular caliper looks like it could be used. i think this particular caliper was specifically designed so that it could measure depth, and in purchasing one you should make sure the extension is narrow enough. i don't think ours was that narrow. the depth gauges we used only had a pin 1/8 inch wide. i would suggest that if a caliper is purchased with the intent of being used as a depth gauge, that the extension is narrow enough.
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Post by rockynv on Feb 28, 2017 12:37:36 GMT -5
rockynv you raised the following issue. "I could not see clearly enough from the picks if both sides of the head gasket are matching the machining of the head and cylinder. When you put the dowels in the head and lay the head gasket in place on it is the alignment good or are there areas where it just barely covers the cooling ports?" Does my picture in post 35 address your questions? I will use the old acorn nuts. See working late and not being able to go get replacements them paid off! I really want to get this thing back together so I can ride it soon. What steps do I need to follow to ensure that if I put it back together again it doesn't leak this time? In some areas then coverage looks a little close to the edge like the gasket is shifted too far away from the timing chain area hopefully in person its a bit better. If you put the head on without the gasket do the acorn nuts touch the head when their hand tightened? If so then you have no worries about them not being deep enough when the head gasket is in place.
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Post by bob123456789 on Mar 1, 2017 7:45:37 GMT -5
If I put the head on without the gasket the acorn nuts touch the head when hand tighten. Here are pictures of the head with the acorn nut and the head-block joint, both with no gasket. Next steps?
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