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Post by geh3333 on Dec 25, 2015 18:30:55 GMT -5
I think what happened was the starters initial energy was wasted turning the broken starter clutch before the starter clutch engaged the crank. For instance let's say the starter clutch was rigged with springs. When the starter turns the clutch the springs would act like a buffer slowing down the momentum of the starter so that when the clutch finally grabs the crank , the starters initial power is not enough to spin the crank.
This is just an explanation of how this could happen. The broken starter clutch works the same way in my case. With only so many roller left coming in contact with the crank , the first initial power from the starter is lost because the clutch probably slipped on the crank , when when the rest of the loose rollers jammed up , it stopped the starter dead.
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Post by geh3333 on Dec 25, 2015 18:18:46 GMT -5
I understand that if the starter clutch was locked up , u would expect the starter would turn the engine over just the same . but that was not the case . I posted pics of the starter clutch in the thread I posted . it seemed like the starter was bad , but after using 2 other starters with the same results , I tore the side cover from the engine and found the starter clutch blown to pieces . after replacing the starter clutch , all three starters worked perfect.
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Post by geh3333 on Dec 25, 2015 18:14:11 GMT -5
a locked starter clutch will not cause the starter to alternately drag and turn normally. the only things i know off that can cause this are, low batt voltage, bad starter, seized engine. i would imagine using a regular starter on a BBK would have the same effect. I didn't say it was locked up , yes the rollers in the st clutch where jammed up , but the starter clutch was keeping the starter from turning over easily. Yes that will cause this issue . it already happpend . the starter clutch had a few rollers out of place , broken pieces and it was causing problems with the starter turning the engine over . the same as in the video . |
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Post by geh3333 on Dec 25, 2015 18:09:56 GMT -5
Actually the piston would probably not work properly due to the slight movement in the crank .
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Post by geh3333 on Dec 25, 2015 18:08:16 GMT -5
I knew it !! Actually I'd really like to know what the max is that they can take . I guess I'm just stuck on thinking that 9-10k is just too unforgivable with these engines , no matter what the brand name is. I'm sure that taida will last at least 2 times longer than the average China scoot engine but I just don't know is it can handle the higher rpms long enough to even consider those rpms . Yeah (sobbing). When I get a new GY6 for my exploded scooter I'll ride it to Penn. for your wedding and bring your Taida engine with me. But ........... not above 8K Someone must have slapped a taida crank in the blue beast when I wasn't looking ! I'm surprised it has over 20k miles and still going ! What if " instead of bearings in the crank " they used magnets ! Opposing fields so instead of ball bearings , the crank spins freely , floating in the engine case ! |
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Post by geh3333 on Dec 25, 2015 17:56:39 GMT -5
Oh cmon rcq , we need data !! Why don't you tune your CVT so u can run it at 10k from your place to my place .I bet you will not make it out of Cali , lol. Merry Christmas !! If I win the bet , you have to buy me a taida engine ! Tuned and on my way !!!!!!!! See ya in a few days. edit: Darn. Got about 5 miles and the engine exploded. I guess 10K was too high. you win. I knew it !! Actually I'd really like to know what the max is that they can take . I guess I'm just stuck on thinking that 9-10k is just too unforgivable with these engines , no matter what the brand name is. I'm sure that taida will last at least 2 times longer than the average China scoot engine but I just don't know is it can handle the higher rpms long enough to even consider those rpms . |
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Post by geh3333 on Dec 25, 2015 17:40:24 GMT -5
But what about the old Honda engines that redline at 8,000 pm ? They are not Chinese junk either , but were the first to build and test these Engines . they came up with the redline , not the Chinese junk. That's why the Chinese junk seems to self destruct at even less rpms, because they took the original Honda redline and used it with their clones. This is the thing, I replaced everything but the crank on my Chinese engine with mostly ncy parts . I'm sure I could have ran the rpms up to 10k for a quick hit here and there , but I would never of done it since I'm not into overheating my scoot . I was basing this discussion on the assumption that it would be safe and good for the engine if it was ran between 8500-10000 rpm for a length of time . even running at 9-10k for a mile or 2 straight would be " in my opinion " asking for problems. I think the main point I'm trying to make is : if Honda redlined the engine at 8k then taida can't be made that much better then Honda, and yes I agree that a short burst up to 10k may not cause the engine to grenade , but any length running it at at those rpms would be called " experimenting" since I've never really heard of anyone running one of these scoots at those rpms . I guess we can all speculate what would or would not happen , but when it comes down too it we will not know until someone tests this theory. And it must be tested for the whole life of the engine , running at those rpms to see if the engine only lasts so many miles. If someone builds me a full taida engine , I'll test it out ! Sorry - I will NOT be 'experimenting' with my Taida this way. Yeah - it might hold up just fine. Or it might not. I don't care to find out - it was just too expensive, and anyway, I like the thing too darned much to see how far I can push it before it "grenades" (nice word, George). Merry Christmas to all of you !!!!!!!!!!!!! Oh - and don't forget - the reason for Christmas isn't our scooters, nor the presents ... but the gift we received from God! Oh cmon rcq , we need data !! Why don't you tune your CVT so u can run it at 10k from your place to my place .I bet you will not make it out of Cali , lol. Merry Christmas !! If I win the bet , you have to buy me a taida engine ! |
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Post by geh3333 on Dec 25, 2015 17:28:49 GMT -5
P-Guy always comes up with the most interesting and informative comments around! Here is the difference, PG: you build for race, and tear your engines down after every run. I'm looking for a balance that will let me avoid a tear down until Obama finally leaves office - whatever century that is. My family driver car is a big body BMW. Probably will do 140 or so if I wanted; never tried on that car. But at highway speeds (75 to 80) it cruises along at 2,000 to 2,500 RPM. SWEET! I'd love to get SuperEngine configured so I could still reach a reasonable top speed on those rare occasions I wanted or needed to, but under normal conditions cruises along at 55 or 60 at about 6,500 RPM. I might WOT the thing at takeoff - just because I hate being passed - but normally just want to cruise along with the flow on this rickety Retro thing. We'll yes and no on my builds I come across wrong on My GY-6. I want to ride, Not work on a 10hr Grenade. well, every 10 hrs. I mentioned my sweet spot is 6,400-7,200 rpm If we pick a off the shelf cam they make the Bulk of there Snots from 6,500-8,500 rpm, Maybe. I'm in the Meat of hp and torque for Maybe 2,000rpm. So were Do I want that 2,000rpm Power Band to be for My Riding? 8-10K rpm, 6-8K rpm? Paying closer attention to some detail will Mostly provide Longevity and Durability. Spin the Rotating Assy. True and Weld Crank. Lighten if ya want, for single crankshaft it isn't that much $$ to do this. can go further in Straightening out the Rod Angle for the Strokers. Sort out some Proper Valve Springs. So now I make the meat of power from 6,500-8,500, ok with the Mods mentioned above I have assurance that I could run 8,500-9 grand all afternoon, park it and do it again tomorrow. Im not interested in doing that, probably never will, but could if I wanted to without a concern. Would you feel call comfortable running it between 9-10k for 10 miles straight ? I think we all have the same concerns about high rpms because we have no real data on if the engine will hold up and how long it will last running a scoot tuned to hit that high of an rpm. That's not the only issue . if a scoot is tuned to hit 10k , then even takeoffs will be in the 9k range or higher . so the scoot will have a normal running rpm between 6-10k rpms ! Just to hit 40 mph you will be in the 7-8k range . the weights needed to hit those rpms would be around 6-8 grams depending on the cc's of he engine . at 20mph you would be around 5-6k rpms! Its starting to sound ridiculous to even try it , lol. Maybe if you had a 232cc engine , then you can use heavier weights to reach the 10k range . maybe 10 grams , that way you can be around 40 mph at a lower rpms and so on. We have to remember that these variators need a certain weight to be able to push the belt up the face. They were designed to run between a specific rpm . so if we tune the CVT to hit the 10k range. , we would look pretty funny screaming down the road at 20mph rpms sounding like a crouch rocket , lol. |
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Post by geh3333 on Dec 25, 2015 17:03:25 GMT -5
who's talking running flat out ten thou plus all the time?,, all i've said all along is this mill is definantely a huge step up from the junk pile fodder chinese engine,,and it can be run safely to 10,000 ,,,the redline on this engine is higher and way safer than an unbalanced chinese mill with lesser grade materials and machining processes,,,and the price reflects this,,,(just speculating here) the engine probably costs more than a low grade scooter,,,anyways if it was run flat out all the time there would be an accident and you probably could wallpaper a bathroom with all the tickets,,,till they threw your in jail that is But what about the old Honda engines that redline at 8,000 pm ? They are not Chinese junk either , but were the first to build and test these Engines . they came up with the redline , not the Chinese junk. That's why the Chinese junk seems to self destruct at even less rpms, because they took the original Honda redline and used it with their clones. This is the thing, I replaced everything but the crank on my Chinese engine with mostly ncy parts . I'm sure I could have ran the rpms up to 10k for a quick hit here and there , but I would never of done it since I'm not into overheating my scoot . I was basing this discussion on the assumption that it would be safe and good for the engine if it was ran between 8500-10000 rpm for a length of time . even running at 9-10k for a mile or 2 straight would be " in my opinion " asking for problems. I think the main point I'm trying to make is : if Honda redlined the engine at 8k then taida can't be made that much better then Honda, and yes I agree that a short burst up to 10k may not cause the engine to grenade , but any length running it at at those rpms would be called " experimenting" since I've never really heard of anyone running one of these scoots at those rpms . I guess we can all speculate what would or would not happen , but when it comes down too it we will not know until someone tests this theory. And it must be tested for the whole life of the engine , running at those rpms to see if the engine only lasts so many miles. If someone builds me a full taida engine , I'll test it out ! |
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Post by geh3333 on Dec 25, 2015 16:42:54 GMT -5
Go up 2mm in carb size for a stock scoot. With a free flow air filter and the new carb you can squeeze a little bit out of the stock engine , even with the stock exhaust.
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Post by geh3333 on Dec 25, 2015 16:33:53 GMT -5
Rcq is right , this can be a couple things . problem is , he same symptoms shut my scoot down also , but it was the starter clutch. Exact Same issue with the engine turning over . I replaced the starter clutch and it started right up . at this point even with spark and fuel , the engine is not turning over fast enough to start. Even when I got the scoot to turn over a few times with one push of the ignition it would not start, not until the starter clutch was replaced.
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Post by geh3333 on Dec 25, 2015 12:43:06 GMT -5
this will suck if all it was was a starter issue . if it does stop on its own then thats what it is. either starter , starter clutch or in the electric going to the starter
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Post by geh3333 on Dec 25, 2015 12:40:05 GMT -5
i agree with rcq , if the starter is only turning over once or so then wont turn over any more until u release and press the ignition again , then there is still an issue with the starter / starter clutch. and yes a starter clutch issue like this may be will def keep the engine from starting " happened to me" . was the starter stopping because u let off the button or did it stop turning on its own?
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Post by geh3333 on Dec 23, 2015 15:22:01 GMT -5
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Post by geh3333 on Dec 23, 2015 15:14:46 GMT -5
i may have missed it , but did you already know how to set the cam or did some here tell you how ?
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