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Post by oldchopperguy on May 7, 2017 23:33:09 GMT -5
Cheesh! My "dream bikes"...
Back when I bought my old Kymco Grandvista 250, I test-rode both the 500 and the 700 twin "My Road". I fell in LOVE with both of them. Sadly, age and arthritis kept me into a true "step-through" model of modest weight, and "Minnie Mouse's" 360 pounds is all I'm comfortable with walking it backwards into my uphill home driveway... Old age SUCKS!!!
Anyone in halfway decent shape would love either the 500 or 700. They ARE large and a tad heavy. Much more like riding a big touring motorcycle. Not "scooter-nimble" in tight traffic, but they are a DREAM to ride. If you really want more of a scooter feel, the 500 is the way to go. If you want more of a touring motorcycle experience, the 700 is sweet!
If I was young and spry, I'd be enjoying one of those bargain-priced new 700's right now!!! Oh, YES!!!
For some reason, the 700 "My Road" never did sell well. Maybe just too large, too heavy and too limited a market, but you CAN find them NEW for somewhere around HALF-PRICE!!!
Kymco quality is second to none, and, if you can manage a battleship on two wheels, GO FOR THE 700! If you still crave some vestige of a "scooter" feel, but with SERIOUS cajones, snag the 500...
The price on that 500 sounds OK, but I think you could get it down a little... Either the 500 OR the 700 are true DREAM bikes of the scooter genre!
I'm probably the original Kymco fan on the site... They are just plain GREAT rides! I am a tad predjudiced because mine has been so satisfactory... LOL!
Hope you get one or the other! Or BOTH... (only kidding...)
Ride safe! And ride COMFORTABLE on either of those sweet rides!!!!
Leo in Tcxas
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Post by oldchopperguy on May 7, 2017 22:14:56 GMT -5
I have a tendency to believe actual results on the road over math and physics dogma. I work with an office full of engineers every day. Most of the time, their calculations correctly predict the outcome, but there are occasional anomalies. The two stroke pipe on a four stroke scooter is one of them. 4-strokes and 2-strokes are "apples and oranges". All the technical sound-wave, impulse technology which makes the chamber-pipe so good on a 2-stroke (and ONLY at the rpm tuned for) go out the window when the pipe is on a 4-stroke. I'm not the ONLY guy or gal to discover how well a 4-stroke will run with a chamber-pipe. It's not all that uncommon, especially on scooters both "from the factory" and custom-built. On a 4-cycle, the initial "cone" or megaphone part helps scavenge the exhaust. The reverse-cone then slows it ONLY slightly. The little "stinger" is a straight-through glass-pack. The whole assembly is a VERY low (near zero-restriction) STRAIGHT-THROUGH "muffler" with slightly better scavenging than most other systems. On my old mostly stock GY6, that little chamber pipe (with full-inside-diameter header) probably did not increase horsepower measurably. But, it DID noticeably increase low-end "grunt", gave better pull at mid-range rpm (especially riding 2-up, up hill and into wind) AND provided INSTANT throttle-response... It also made easy work of carb-tuning.
THAT is the truth, and is WHY I posted the "how-to" originally. I rode it that way for two years, and the dealer I traded it to on the Kymco was astonished at how it ran. I heard he kept it for some time as a shop errand-runner because it was just plain fun, with amazing performance for a Chinese 150.
I'm not on a crusade to put chamber-pipes on 4-strokes... I just see red when somebody tells me something I've done successfully many times won't work. Ride safe! And thanks for the insight into "real world" performance opposed to theory. No, I wouldn't have posted the "how to" if it didn't work. Leo |
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Post by oldchopperguy on May 7, 2017 18:53:18 GMT -5
Pistonguy,
I don't know how this got so off-subject. All I did was re-post my chamber-pipe how-to in response to your questioning the exhaust on my old GY6. I've been nothing but friendly and complimentary to you, and you have chosen to be a "right-fighter" determined to belittle me and call what I did successfully "impossible".
Let me reiterate: IT WORKS GREAT!!!!!!!!! The chamber-pipe is VERY free-breathing ON a 4-STROKE. And easy to tune. And I don't appreciate your cock-sure attitude calling me a liar, and my posting false info for the members.
For your edification, here are some pix of FACTORY STOCK GY6 150 4-strokes equipped FROM THE DAMNED FACTORY WITH CHAMBER PIPES... And, ONE example of a professional custom Honda Ruckus which the builder chose to equip with a chamber-pipe. Hmmm... I guess the engineers and custom builder represented here are "zips" too. Problem is: They run GREAT. gif uploaderOf course there are NO chamber piped Briggs karts. I said we did that on our pit-bikes to test the theory AND IT WORKED GREAT THEN, AND STILL WORKS GREAT TODAY. And I'm sorry I don't still have my time slips from Oswego Dragway from 1963. You wouldn't believe them anyway. I don't still have the chopper, OR the gal from 50 years ago either... LO not so L.
You obviously are skilled, and know a lot. But you don't know everything. I would NEVER post a how-to on ANYTHING that I did not do myself, and PROVE on the street that it works.
I admire your knowledge, but your attitude is wearing thin. How'd you like it if I replied to something you did successfully, and called it impossible, criticizing you for such a post? Think about it. Think about the fact that when somebody does something that works over the long haul, they don't appreciate being called a liar, blowhard, etc. all of which you have insinuated that I am. Please, let's keep it friendly, and PLEASE open your mind to things that may not look practical to YOU, but WORK ANYWAY...
Pardon me all to blazes for trying to be helpful by sharing my experiences... No hard feelings, but I am DONE with this subject. Period. This whole juvenile banter is making me really want to dump scooters and get back to real bikes again. And that's a shame since I really enjoy the site, and sharing 50 years of experience with new riders. Regards, Leo in Texas
PS: I actually have one of those Vento GY6 chamber pipes I got from Puerto Rico to use on my GY6, before I found that sweet little stainless-steel pipe. Pay the postage, and I'll mail the damned thing to you just to prove those pix aren't "Photoshopped"...
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Post by oldchopperguy on May 6, 2017 21:12:46 GMT -5
Friends, all I can say is that it works well for me, and has for a half-century. I'm beginning to wish I'd have not bothered re-posting these old 150 "how-to" tricks, and am glad I moved up to a larger-displacement ride that doesn't require more wrenching than riding... If it didn't work well, I wouldn't have wasted my time taking pix and making the post...
While chamber pipes are not common or popular on 4-strokes, they are a proven success... A few years back, even top Alcohol dragsters were experimenting with chamber pipes on their engines with promising results. For over fifty years, I've run numerous chamber pipes on small 4-strokes with noticeable improvement in overall performance over stock-type mufflers and straight-pipes. I'm well aware of how a chamber pipe works on a 2-stroke...
A 4-stroke is totally different scenario with a much simpler "exhaust impulse" than a hot 2-T. What it is in effect, is simply an "enhanced straight-pipe" with a slight improvement in performance and a big improvement in ease of tuning and good all around running. It is not rocket-science... just a very good "muffler" for a 4-stroke... End of story.
Back in the 1960's when we had numerous chamber pipes laying around from experiments with Mac's, West Bends, Power Products and Homelite kart motors, we adapted them to Briggs, Tecumseh and other old-school 4-strokes on pit-bikes with great success.
As I mentioned, some Vento Chinese 150 GY6's came factory-equipped with them, and I even have a NOS Vento chamber pipe laying around.
The reason I did this conversion is simple... IT WORKS. Maybe on paper it isn't supposed to, but in my experience it works VERY well.
Everybody is entitled to his/her opinion.
I raced Mac-powered karts some, but was better in the pit than in the driver's seat... Just too big... LOL!
I never did drag Harleys except for my own chopper... At Oswego Drag Strip"Old Blue" would run in the high tens/low elevens, at 130+ in street trim in 1962... (My 4'6" 76-pound gal friend could crank off a mid tens at 145+). I won enough street racing to pay the obscene cost of building that motor... You build 'em your way, and I'll build 'em mine and we'll both be happy...
Ride safe,
Leo (some zip) in Texas
PS: That's a nice exhaust setup on your red scoot. You found the same garbage fabrication on your stock pipe as I did. A full-sized header is one MAJOR improvement over the stock setup.
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Post by oldchopperguy on May 6, 2017 15:21:35 GMT -5
OK, for those interested, here's pix from the old post on the 2-stroke chamber-pipe adaptation for the GY6... (Note the cool chromed brake-caliper... LOL!) The old caliper went south, and the chrome one was CHEAPER than a stocker...  Onan, John Deere and other generators use headers that match the GY6 bolt-pattern. You need to cut off the stubs that protrude into the heads of those generator engines.
  That stainless flex-pipe is available at RV stores for generator motors. The factory strap-mounts for the stock muffler can be altered to fit a different type of exhaust...Instead of fabricating a headpipe from scraps like I did, it's better to just "pony up" a few bucks for a real, full-diameter high-perf header... Easier too! Simply discarding the factory header that is SMALLER inside than the EXHAUST PORT (EEEEWWWW! Major restriction right at the head where it causes the most problem!) and replacing it with a full 1" inside-diameter pipe will improve running noticeably! Even with a stock muffler... But STOCK stuff is no fun when you have a hacksaw and a wrench... LOL!Ride safe! Leo
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Post by oldchopperguy on May 6, 2017 15:09:11 GMT -5
Pistonguy,
OK, the expansion/contraction chamber... Yeah, it got a lot of comments.
WAY back in the 1960's I was a go-kart fanatic. When the chamber pipes came out, they were amazing, pulling the fresh air-fuel charge THROGH the cylinder, and ramming it back in for an honest-to-goodness "supercharging" effect. MONSTER power, but only at the rpm tuned for.
We experimented by running them on 4-stroke engines with great success (but of course, NO "supercharging" effect).
The way they perform on a 4-stroke is that the expansion part of the pipe DOES "pull" the exhaust out, in effect, scavenging the exhaust better even than a straight-pipe. The contraction cone part produces a little back-pressure which the average 4-stroke still needs to run right.
The combination makes for a 4-stroke with the exhaust-scavenging properties of a straight, wide-open exhaust with the smooth running with easy tuning and a general improvement in overall drivability. The perfect setup for a daily-driver scooter.
The pipe won't make monster horsepower like on a 2-stroke, but in my experience it's the BEST general performance setup on a daily-driver 4-stroke. the little "stinger" on the pipe is mainly to tame the otherwise LOUD exhaust note. On a 150 4-stroke however, they "just ain't all that loud" without it... It just looks cool, and, it was already on the pipe.
That pipe in the picture is actually from a 50cc 2-stroke. I found it under the cushions of a couch at a thrift-store! They wanted $7 for the couch, so I gave them the seven bucks and took the pipe, letting them keep the couch... LOL!
Many modern riders don't like the idea of an expansion pipe on a 4-stroke, but I've been using them for 50 years with great results. They make for easy tuning, great overall running, are not required to be "tuned to the engine" and are not all that loud. Works for me!
Ride safe!
Leo in Texas
PS: A few years back, "Vento" 150 scoots came with a chamber pipe. I actually have a NOS one, all chrome and shiny somewhere in the shed... However, it will not just bolt up to every GY6 150. To place it on a different model, it might need to be cut off ahead of the chamber and adapted. Also, the mounts don't fit all Chinese scoots either. There are a lot of differences in Chinese 150 exhausts.
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Post by oldchopperguy on May 6, 2017 14:32:28 GMT -5
If you have cooling issues, this might help.In Texas, I often ride in over 100-degree weather. My original Chinese 150 did run a little hot, with the oil-temp approaching 200-degrees. I figure oil-temp is a pretty good benchmark for overall engine temp. "If the oil's happy, the whole motor is probably happy..."I added one of those "fan scoops" which helped "slightly" lowering the temp a few degrees. I then made an extension from PVC pipe which moved the scoop outboard of the plastics. THIS lowered the oil-temp from 195+ down to 170-175 on a 110-degree day! I believe the stock cooling-fan shroud is SO far "inboard" of the plastics that it suffers from starvation of fresh air, even at speed. Consider, the fan is sucking hot air from all around the engine-bay even when moving. (Adding more cool-air access like you want to do, would certainly help).
Of course, heat will always be a problem when sitting idling. Any longer than a couple of red-lights and I shut off the motor, restarting when traffic in front begins to move. I do that even with my current water-cooled Kymco when the temp gauge gets near the top, and that habit has worked well for me with bikes for more than 50 years... It WAS a little more "pesky" inconvenient with kick-start Hogs in the 1960's... but still a good way to keep the bike cool. Electric starters ARE the "cat's-" nowadays...
Here are some pix of the simple fan-scoop extension from my old 150 GY6. It's pretty simple to make, and really does lower the oil-temp a LOT on a hot day...    
Getting the "scoop" out past the plastics (which MAY produce a "votex" of "dead air") really worked for me. In temperatures below  -degrees, it may not matter as much, but the engine can use all the fresh air it can get... On my old 150, I replaced the black fan-shroud with a chrome one, and trimmed the extension with chrome mylar tape to make it all match. Strictly "cosmetic" but the whole assembly could be simply painted flat-black, or any color. It's the function that matters... LOL!Ride safe,
Leo in Texas
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Post by oldchopperguy on May 6, 2017 14:08:03 GMT -5
Stopped in at my Kymco dealer to see if he had a CDI in stock - and how much it would cost. Turns out the CDI IS covered by the warranty -  - if it turns out to be that... Bobby seems to think that "if the CDI is bad, it wouldn't be intermittent - when they are bad, they are bad"... I guess we'll see...scooter is at his shop..of course, no problems on the way over there...  My Chinese CDI definitely DID go bad "off-and-on" (simultaneously with the Chinese coil, off-and-on) Cheesh, what a pain to diagnose!!! I finally replaced the CDI which "cured" the erratic running about  %, then I replaced the coil with a Japanese Bando coil and THAT finally fixed the electrics for good.
I'd think your Kymco dealer could run a diagnostic test while you're there for little or no cost, and then you'd know for sure. Even my stone-age Grandvista has a lot more electronic voodoo going on than an old-school Chinese ride. These Taiwanese rides are a little more "car like" in design, while the old Chinese rides were a little more "lawn-maintenance-equipment like"... I think, but am not sure (LOL) that a Kymco dealer should (?) be able to diagnose the problem for certain, and, HOPEFULLY the fix will be fully covered by warranty. From my experience with the old 250, as well as contact with other Kymco riders, these scooters seem to be almost "bullet-proof". Well, Almost... LOL! But certainly among the best made scoots out there. From two years of basic maintenance, and digging into the wiring to set up LED driving lights, I'm more than impressed with the quality of build. These scoots are beefy, heavy-duty and are literally "little family sedans on two wheels".
Best wishes for a quick, cheap fix... and Ride safe!Leo in Texas |
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Post by oldchopperguy on May 3, 2017 21:08:03 GMT -5
Yeah, Coolidge... I agree with what Spandi said!
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Post by oldchopperguy on May 2, 2017 1:00:07 GMT -5
That is the right item. I'm not sure which CDI's made for Chinese scoots might be the correct 8-pin, but it's likely you can find one on eBay. Your Kymco probably uses the same CDI as my old 250, but I've never removed it to look at it. If you search eBay, you should find one that works... Sorry about my mistake. I did have great results with the "New Racing: brand, in spite of the stupid name... LOL! Here's another couple to check out. Sorry, but I can't get the links to show up. eBay item number: 272641260654 eBay item number: 272434453729 |
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Post by oldchopperguy on Apr 30, 2017 21:09:55 GMT -5
Kevinharrell,
Gotta love that badazz rat! Have a bone on The Old Chopper Guy...
I don't remember the hamster/gerbil macho pole, but you may have. But then, my memory isn't what it used to be...In my personal experience, I've had both gerbils and hamsters as a kid. Most of my hamsters were pretty aggressive, willing to take a piece out my finger. Most of my gerbils were pretty docile, happy to curl up in my hand and go to sleep. Of course, some of our stalwart Hollywood stars figured out ways to "boldly send Gerbils where they never went before"... But THAT may be more "sick" than "macho"...  My only rat "experience" involved a very docile, chubby fellow who would also go to sleep in my hand, and, relieve himself during the nap... EEEWWW! I've always had a soft spot for furry little critters, especially those Guinea Pigs with their "bed-head" fur growing in all directions... LOL! Keep up the macho poles! You have some great ones!  Leo in Texas
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Post by oldchopperguy on Apr 29, 2017 21:22:31 GMT -5
I'm going with "duck"...
OK, CHICKENS have the advantage, admitted. But DUCKS get shot at. That has to count for something... And there's no "Chicken Commander" Red Neck guys on TV. And some of THE most macho guys I knew in the Army were Vietnamese soldiers named "Duk"... Alright, I suppose I'm pushing the envelope.Hey, wait a minute... Chickens are GOOD for you to eat. No macho there... Ducks are plum chocked-full of cholesterol! THAT could KILL you if you ate enough of 'em. THAT has GOT to add to the macho factor ... Chickens aren't likely to kill you unless you're trying to miss one crossing the road and hit wet leaves... Yup...  I dunno... This is sorta like wondering which is more macho: Hamster or Gerbil... 
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Post by oldchopperguy on Apr 29, 2017 21:07:45 GMT -5
I just checked eBay, and OEM CDI's are pricey! However, I did find this one ("New Racing" brand) that appears to interchange with yours.
eBay item number:
311840687916
This "blue" "New Racing" CDI may be very good. I replaced my bad CDI on my old Chinese 150 with one, and it was GREAT. No rev-limiter, and the engine REALLY liked it... and it lasted!
Hope this might help.
Leo in Texas
PS: Do NOT get it wet! NO CDI including Kymco factory ones take well to spray-washes... REALLY!
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Post by oldchopperguy on Apr 29, 2017 20:53:38 GMT -5
Floridagull,
My old Chinese 150 did the same thing, and it indeed WAS the CDI. I'm a big Kymco fan, but the little parts DO cost a lot more than universal Chinese makes. I'd try the Net to see if you might find one cheaper, maybe on eBay even.
I'd advise you to get a new CDI as soon as you can though, and keep it with you, just to avoid a long walk n' push... Kymco parts are known for being very long-lasting, but they CAN go bad like any others.
Best wishes for many more happy miles!
Leo in Texas
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Post by oldchopperguy on Apr 29, 2017 20:45:20 GMT -5
I was unfortunate enough to pick up a nail in - of course - my rear tire.  Thankfully, it was holding pressure. My son had picked one up in his rear tire a bit ago, and the Scooter Genie charged him $40 to remove the rear wheel and replace the tire - the replacement tire was $37. ...10" wheels on his Baccio. He had a tire on hand for him. I called the Scooter Genie regarding my 130/70-12 - he said $57. plus $12. shipping, and $60 to remove and replace. I found my same tire online on sale for $30.99 with free shipping - but $ ?  I had asked the Scooter Genie about the possibility of "plugging" my son's tire when his puncture happened. He said that the tires are thinner than car or truck tires, and that the plugs didn't work very well on scooter or motorcycle tires. However, after leaving Bible study one Friday morning, riding on my scooter with the nail in the tire holding air, I was about to ride by my tire place, and I thought "let me ask Wayne about plugging my tire" - and so I did. Wayne was a bit skeptical, but it was a small nail, so he was willing to give it a try. After a somewhat normal "plugging" procedure, I was on my way - no charge! In my mind I had saved $ , so I tipped the young guy who did it $10 -  - perhaps the after effect of Bible study?  So, it has been 2 weeks now with no trouble. Has anyone else "plugged" their scooter tire? Success? Failure? Bad Idea? Good Idea? 
Way back 7 years ago, my first scooter (a Xingyue 150) picked up a small nail in the tread of the rear tire. I plugged it with an ancient kit I found in my old car... The "rope soaked in tar" variety... LOL! Crude, but pretty good stuff!It worked fine, and the tire was still fine 6 years and 3,000 miles later when I traded the scoot on my current old Kymco 250. Now, I know experts say the tires should be changed every few years, and that is surely a good idea for safety. However, those tires still looked "as-new" with NO checking or dry-rot. The tread was only worn slightly. In contrast, a "new" tire on the front of my Kymco split wide open after less than a year... It WAS however one that sat on the shelf for over 10 years before residing on my scoot...
If I got another nail in a tire, I'd plug it UNLESS the tire was nearing time for replacement... Heck, I'd still plug it so I could ride until I replaced it.I've plugged NUMEROUS tubeless CAR tires over the decades and one SCOOTER tire, and never had a problem. Just remember, it's not feasible or safe to try to plug a puncture in the sidewall... Only in the tread. That old tar-saturated-rope plug is STILL a pretty reliable fix for a small puncture, at least in my opinion. Be safe though, replace the tire if it's showing ANY signs of aging like weather-checking, dry-rot, cracking, splitting etc. New or old, I always visually check my tires before every ride. You do NOT want to experience a blowout on ANY vehicle, and absolutely NOT on a 2-wheeler!
Ride safe!Leo in Texas |
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-degrees, it may not matter as much, but the engine can use all the fresh air it can get...
%, then I replaced the coil with a Japanese Bando coil and THAT finally fixed the electrics for good.