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Post by rcq92130 on Dec 24, 2015 14:04:16 GMT -5
If plug is removed will it turn Over? Will try this tonight Gas has to be atomized into the air stream. Just squirting it into the intake manifold will not tell you much (and will make it even harder to turn the engine. That's why I suggested starter fluid (which is in a spray can). But even that will not work if you do not get the starter turning the engine properly with the starter motor. Ah I see that makes more sense. Thanks for info so my to do list is as follows: Test battery Test starter solenoid Test starter with jumper cables, black to ground, red to screw on starter wire Try starter with plug removed Anything else i missed that falls in this ballpark? Before anything else try #3 (test starter with jumper cables). If the engine STILL does niot turn over properly there is no reason the check the battery at this time. If it DOES, then either the battery, wiring or solenoid is the problem with poor turnover. Test it with a CAR battery, not your scooter batter which may be a part of the problem |
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Post by rcq92130 on Dec 24, 2015 13:09:40 GMT -5
About "low compression" ---- if your engine was not turning over easily when you tested compression then you got an incorrect reading. The engine should rotate 3 or 4 times WITH THE THROTTLE WIDE OPEN !!!!! to get a good reading. A turn .... stop .... turn will not give any kind of compression. But if you really DO have such incredibly low compression (30 is WAAAYYYY low!), none of the above will correct that. So step 1 is getting the engine to turn properly. Might just be that you then will get enough vacuum to the fuel pump, get fuel to the carb, and the problem will be solved. This could be it. It only really does like 1 turn when trying to start, also i have tried putting fuel in the vac line to bypass car Gas has to be atomized into the air stream. Just squirting it into the intake manifold will not tell you much (and will make it even harder to turn the engine. That's why I suggested starter fluid (which is in a spray can). But even that will not work if you do not get the starter turning the engine properly with the starter motor. |
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Post by rcq92130 on Dec 24, 2015 13:06:23 GMT -5
since you rebuild what is your compression if 30 is you answer not in blue moon will it start you will need 125 to fire you then need to go back to beginning and fine out why. Test after you put a table spoon of oil into spark plug hole then test compression if compression comes up rings not sealing if nothing valves no closing . All in All if no real compression no way in will it start no matter what else you do.   The problem is he does not KNOW what his compression is. The engine will barely turn over - 1 rotation and then it halts .... then 1 rotation and halt ... not anywhere near enough to get a reading. Step #1, before anything else, is to get that corrected. Who knows - if he gets the thing turning over properly with the starter motor, it just may fire right up and be fine. And, if he has a below-floor gas tank, not a high one that will drain to the carb just by gravity, the fuel pump (if he still has an old fashioned vacuum driven one) is not getting any vacuum to pump because of the lack of rotation. |
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Post by rcq92130 on Dec 24, 2015 0:58:04 GMT -5
The weak starter FOR SURE will prevent the thing from starting. Are you saying when you press (and hold) the starter button the engine turns a bit, then stops till you release and press the button again? Or does it turn ... stop .... turn again for a bit ... stop .... etc? Either way - when you press the button the engine should turn and keep turning without a stop. Short of that you will NEVER get the thing to start especially if you have a vacuum-driven fuel pump which only pumps when the engine turns. Causes: (1) failing battery; (2) inadequate size of wires from battery to solenoid to starter motor; (3) failing starter motor; (4) OEM (i.e., weak) starter motor in a scooter that has a BBK; (5) fluid in the combustion chamber (oil). Eliminate all the battery and wiring issues by using jumper cables from a CAR battery ... black to ground and red DIRECTLY TO THE SCREW ON THE STARTER MOTOR WHERE THE WIRING ATTACHES (but be careful of not touching ground with the red). Even with the key off that should spin the engine. If you have the same turn ... stop ... turn result then you can guess your battery, solenoid and wiring is probably OK. Remove the spark plug and push the starter button. The engine should spin easily for as long as you hold down the button. If there is any oil in the combustion chamber that should also blow it out thru the open spark plug hole. If you saw spark I'd look elsewhere before going on thinking this is an electrical problem. If the engine will not turn over easily, for example, the pump will not lift fuel into the carb and it will never start 'cause there isn't gas where it's needed. get a can of starting fluid (ethanol) and spray a short (!!!) burst into the intake. If it's a fuel problem then the engine will start (and quickly die again as the ethanol is burned up -- but it will start, showing you probably have a fuel problem). Of course, if it dies while riding it may be the fuel pump gave out ... and is now O U T .... and that's why it initially died and also why it now won't start. If you added a BBK then your OEM starter motor is probably not strong enough and should be replaced with a "high torque" motor. About "low compression" ---- if your engine was not turning over easily when you tested compression then you got an incorrect reading. The engine should rotate 3 or 4 times WITH THE THROTTLE WIDE OPEN !!!!! to get a good reading. A turn .... stop .... turn will not give any kind of compression. But if you really DO have such incredibly low compression (30 is WAAAYYYY low!), none of the above will correct that. So step 1 is getting the engine to turn properly. Might just be that you then will get enough vacuum to the fuel pump, get fuel to the carb, and the problem will be solved. i agree with most of this except getting the engine to turn over smoothly. you can get it to turn over smoothly with a starter but not by hand. the OP stated in one of his earlier posts that he turned it over by the variator smoothly ( or something like that). there is nothing smooth about turning over an engine by hand that has good compression. it will be alternately easy and hard, depending on the stroke. an easy turning (by hand) engine indicates no compression. this almost always points to bent valves, hole in the piston, or a broken crank/ connecting rod. an inspection at top end rebuild would verify any of these. Don't have the patience to go back and read all that crap I wrote -- but certainly didn't mean to say it's "smooth" or easy to turn the engine by hand (unless the plug is out). All I meant to say involved using the starter motor. The question I have is if there really IS low compression. If when checking the engine the starter turned it over as it did in the video --- or if compression was tested with the throttle closed ---- we do not even know if the thing is bad compression wise. Need a proper and accurate compression check. |
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Post by rcq92130 on Dec 23, 2015 23:36:50 GMT -5
it should have also verified pickup and stator placement. electrical testing should have verified no shorts to ground. i wonder if the OP even tested the pickup. I have not, this is not something I previously knew how to do, hence this topic, so I can learn Also I never said I replaced the coil, just tried a different cdi, but it was giving spark Also would a short in the wiring cause it to have low compression? Or would a weak starter cause the scooter to shut down mid ride? Sorry this questions might seem stupid but I'm still figuring out exactly how everything influences each other. Also if you look at the pics I posted there is some chipping on the head near the valves, not sure if you're saying this is fine or not? The weak starter FOR SURE will prevent the thing from starting. Are you saying when you press (and hold) the starter button the engine turns a bit, then stops till you release and press the button again? Or does it turn ... stop .... turn again for a bit ... stop .... etc? Either way - when you press the button the engine should turn and keep turning without a stop. Short of that you will NEVER get the thing to start especially if you have a vacuum-driven fuel pump which only pumps when the engine turns. Causes: (1) failing battery; (2) inadequate size of wires from battery to solenoid to starter motor; (3) failing starter motor; (4) OEM (i.e., weak) starter motor in a scooter that has a BBK; (5) fluid in the combustion chamber (oil). Eliminate all the battery and wiring issues by using jumper cables from a CAR battery ... black to ground and red DIRECTLY TO THE SCREW ON THE STARTER MOTOR WHERE THE WIRING ATTACHES (but be careful of not touching ground with the red). Even with the key off that should spin the engine. If you have the same turn ... stop ... turn result then you can guess your battery, solenoid and wiring is probably OK. Remove the spark plug and push the starter button. The engine should spin easily for as long as you hold down the button. If there is any oil in the combustion chamber that should also blow it out thru the open spark plug hole. If you saw spark I'd look elsewhere before going on thinking this is an electrical problem. If the engine will not turn over easily, for example, the pump will not lift fuel into the carb and it will never start 'cause there isn't gas where it's needed. get a can of starting fluid (ethanol) and spray a short (!!!) burst into the intake. If it's a fuel problem then the engine will start (and quickly die again as the ethanol is burned up -- but it will start, showing you probably have a fuel problem). Of course, if it dies while riding it may be the fuel pump gave out ... and is now O U T .... and that's why it initially died and also why it now won't start. If you added a BBK then your OEM starter motor is probably not strong enough and should be replaced with a "high torque" motor. About "low compression" ---- if your engine was not turning over easily when you tested compression then you got an incorrect reading. The engine should rotate 3 or 4 times WITH THE THROTTLE WIDE OPEN !!!!! to get a good reading. A turn .... stop .... turn will not give any kind of compression. But if you really DO have such incredibly low compression (30 is WAAAYYYY low!), none of the above will correct that. So step 1 is getting the engine to turn properly. Might just be that you then will get enough vacuum to the fuel pump, get fuel to the carb, and the problem will be solved. |
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Post by rcq92130 on Dec 22, 2015 14:52:47 GMT -5
P-Guy Never knew about counter-wound springs before and thank you for that gem. Here are a few pix I thought you would enjoy - the first actually relevant to what you were saying (yeah, I know - every once in a while I say something relevant by mistake). springs:  Cute stuff!:  Pretty stuff:  |
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Post by rcq92130 on Dec 19, 2015 18:32:44 GMT -5
Plus, their prices are lowest (and you can do free store pickup; no ship charge). i doubt if you can get free shipping from a website. the opening post was in reference to walmarts website, not to a physical store. It's all good. Order from Walmart's website and specify free shipping to the store closest to you. Then drive to the store and go to cust. service at the entrance - your belt will be waiting. Takes about a day. Free shipping! |
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Post by rcq92130 on Dec 19, 2015 13:53:57 GMT -5
I agree. I drive a scooter made in China. I guess what I was getting at with my comment about them being made in China is that you don't know what you are getting when you order a Gates belt now. There are so many knock offs out there, and the prices vary so widely on their belts now, that I just have a hard time trusting them. Then you have companies like Walmart now that only buy a license to but a brand name on their own products made in their own factories further muddying things up. Big difference between a Gates Belt made by Gates in their own Chinese Factory to something made under license by a company like Walmart in their own factory not to mention the absolute fakes out there. Not to argue, Rocky, but a minor correction. Walmart and other big box stores don't actually simply buy licenses to use a major manufacturer's name and manufacture in their own plants. It might seem that way since the part numbers are different than you will find for the brand name product (and unique to the big box store) ... but ... what they are in fact doing is buying from the major manufacturer, but requiring a unique part number for what is sold in their big box store. You are getting the same part, made in the same factory and under the same quality control, but with a different (and unique) part number used only by - in this case - Walmart. The mattress retailers invented this practice so that customers would have a difficult time comparison shopping (the p/n from Mattress City is different from the part number in Sleep Train, even though both use the "Serta" brand and both have identical specifications (and are, in fact, the same product). Now pretty much all big box companies do this: Costco, Walmart, Sears, etc. So, when you buy a "Gates" belt in, say, Walmart, you are getting a real Gates belt, made by Gates in their own factory - but with a p/n they agreed to use just for Walmart. So, like GEH said - with all the counterfeit product streaming out of China - much of it looking exactly like the real McCoy - what's the best was to make sure you are getting a genuine product? It's not, unfortunately, by buying from a trusted retailer (for scooter parts). These retailers are small companies and simply do not have the buying strength and clout to buy directly from the manufacturer, but buy from distributors - and the disty's are selling counterfeit stuff along with real stuff. The small scooter retailer simply can't be sure what they have bought. best bet is to go with a large retailer with a sophisticated buying organization, and enough volume they can deal directly with the manufacturer. Of course, most scooter parts can't be bought from a company like Walmart, so we have to deal with smaller retailers and hope for the best. Belts, luckily, are an exception and CAN be bought from a company that can make sure they know what they are getting (and with enough to lose in reputation they will not scam customers with counterfeit product). I hope this helps - and, again, just trying to help, not argue. |
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Post by rcq92130 on Dec 18, 2015 20:04:55 GMT -5
Having a looks at some of the Off the Shelf Aftermarket I don't see too much problem at all Raising the RPM Limit a few Thousand RPM. Given Correct Valve Springs and a Cam that Made Power to that Newer Limit. There Plenty of Material on the Taida Pistons to run over 10K. Here is Both a Cast and Forged 61mm, Neither Piston will Break at 10,500. Disregard the NCY on the Right.  Heres a Stroker Crank. I Did check this on the Truing stand and is under .001 run-out. The Rod IsMore than Adequate Material on Both the Big and Small Ends. Could Weld the Crank upon if it made ya Feel Better. I may do a few things in that area. lighten or forth   Taida Forging on Stroker Crank. Plenty of Material on the Bottom side of the Pin Bore  Taking a Hard look at these Hard Parts. Now at the RPM stuff being said I like My GY-6 Sweet Spot to be 6,400-7,200 P-Guy always comes up with the most interesting and informative comments around! Here is the difference, PG: you build for race, and tear your engines down after every run. I'm looking for a balance that will let me avoid a tear down until Obama finally leaves office - whatever century that is. My family driver car is a big body BMW. Probably will do 140 or so if I wanted; never tried on that car. But at highway speeds (75 to 80) it cruises along at 2,000 to 2,500 RPM. SWEET! I'd love to get SuperEngine configured so I could still reach a reasonable top speed on those rare occasions I wanted or needed to, but under normal conditions cruises along at 55 or 60 at about 6,500 RPM. I might WOT the thing at takeoff - just because I hate being passed - but normally just want to cruise along with the flow on this rickety Retro thing. |
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Post by rcq92130 on Dec 18, 2015 19:58:48 GMT -5
And that's why you up the final drive gears! Yeah, that's why the first thing done was to gear up to 16/36 - not the lowest ratio commercially available, but pretty close to it. All of this variator tuning is AFTER putting in taller gears. |
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Post by rcq92130 on Dec 15, 2015 16:09:37 GMT -5
JOHN IS GREAT !@
On Thursday, the 11th, I first emailed him with my problem --- On Friday he said he would supply a replacement unit
On MONDAY, THE 14TH, THE REPLACEMENT UNIT WAS IN MY MAILBOX !!!!!!!!!!
SUPER HUMAN !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Post by rcq92130 on Dec 15, 2015 15:26:48 GMT -5
My concern is throwing a rod, because of the damage it could cause. And I have no idea what and how the rod is made on these crank sets. And I have no idea what kind of valve springs Taida uses. The Taiwan 60mm head I had before supposedly had 12k stainless springs ... but who knows. This engine is only running at 190cc - which is 18% under the max they can handle. So, there is plenty of meat in the case and probably not very much movement. And the oil cooler keeps everything nice and cool. Even running at 75mph for a while the oil does not get up much past 150. I guess the main issue here is what the intended use is. 60 or 65mph top speed, for me, was just inadequate. It's not that I want to exceed this often - the scooter suspension isn't safe at higher speeds - but when the occasion arises i want to have the reserve. And i don't want to be slowing down to 50 or 45 going up hills. And, mainly, I want to be able to cruise along at normal speeds (60 or so) without the engine wailing like it's a jet taking off. So, even if 8K is safe for extended periods of time (I'm not yet convinced) I don't want that racket, vibration and irritation. Being ABLE to juice it is vital - but cruising at 6500 or 7000 is what I'm after. Did you ever locate a swing arm for your scoot ? THAT WENT ON THE BACK BURNER WHILE I WORK ON TUNING |
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Post by rcq92130 on Dec 15, 2015 0:33:26 GMT -5
Ride it like you stole it, bores and pistons are reasonably cheap on GY6 engines, you can treat them as consumables. My concern is throwing a rod, because of the damage it could cause. And I have no idea what and how the rod is made on these crank sets. And I have no idea what kind of valve springs Taida uses. The Taiwan 60mm head I had before supposedly had 12k stainless springs ... but who knows. This engine is only running at 190cc - which is 18% under the max they can handle. So, there is plenty of meat in the case and probably not very much movement. And the oil cooler keeps everything nice and cool. Even running at 75mph for a while the oil does not get up much past 150. I guess the main issue here is what the intended use is. 60 or 65mph top speed, for me, was just inadequate. It's not that I want to exceed this often - the scooter suspension isn't safe at higher speeds - but when the occasion arises i want to have the reserve. And i don't want to be slowing down to 50 or 45 going up hills. And, mainly, I want to be able to cruise along at normal speeds (60 or so) without the engine wailing like it's a jet taking off. So, even if 8K is safe for extended periods of time (I'm not yet convinced) I don't want that racket, vibration and irritation. Being ABLE to juice it is vital - but cruising at 6500 or 7000 is what I'm after. |
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Post by rcq92130 on Dec 11, 2015 13:39:45 GMT -5
TODAY IT'S ABOUT A GREAT SUPPLIER WHO WENT ABOVE AND BEYOND THE CALL IN SUPPORT OF HIS PRODUCTS.
JOHN ------ our own "TVNACMAN" AT NYCSCOOTERS
11 months ago I bought one of John's fabled "advancing angle CDI" boxes. It performed flawlessly ... until a few weeks ago. Then I started noticing the scooter was hard to start in the morning - used to fly into action at the firt push of the starter button. Things got worse and worse, and i checked the usual suspects (valves, plug, coil, etc). Finally realized I was getting a bit of backfire when the scooter struggled to start, and suspected the ignition timing. So, checked the CDI and sure enough, it was failing.
Contacted John - a few questions asked and answered, and he immediately sent a replacement.
Great suppliers should be highlighted. John is a great supplier!
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Post by rcq92130 on Dec 8, 2015 16:09:48 GMT -5
One thing to add --- about max RPMs. Both variators reacted almost identically in terms of RPM versus weights. I am NOT interested in running at redline all the time ... and, in fact, really want to run comfortably BELOW redline so the engine is still around 5,000 miles from now. As I understand it, "redline" on a GY6 is somewhere from 8,000 to 8,500 RPM. Those interested in racing applications (not me, BTW) should know that a standard Gy6, or one with a BBK, will put out max torque according to the cam you have in the head. Most cams used by normal owners have a peak in their torque curve at about 7,500 to 8,000 RPM.  Thus, when you operate ABOVE this engine speed you hurt, not help, the cause. In my case, I'd like to operate normally in the 6,500 to 7,000 RPM range, and not see engine speed much above that even under WOT. Both variators easily went up to 7,500 RPM and slightly higher when using 12gr weights. Both variators would not climb much above 6,700 when using 14gr weights. Both variators gave about the RPM performance I was seeking with 13gr weights. It was a surprise to me that these variators were as sensitive to slider or roller weight as they proved to be. I have no idea if these are typical results for a standard GY6 engine (again, I'm running one of Martin's Taida "SuperEngines"). It would be interesting is others with a standard GY^ could add to these results. |
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