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Post by nofxortiz on Mar 18, 2013 18:49:54 GMT -5
Ok, from what you said it looks like the scoot may have a lot of miles on from the condition you said it was in. No new scooter with the KM you say it has would not be in that condition. Since the crank does turn and moves the piston up and down and it takes FUEL, SPARK and COMPRESSION for a motor to run. Lets check each one. Since you have been playing with fuel and spark CHECK YOUR COMPRESSION. If you do not have a compression guage the next best thing is use your finger. Take the spark plug out and stick your finger in the hole nice ans snuge twist the throttle wide open and hold it and crank it. If it has compression it will blow your finger off the hole don't be afraid your are pushing down with your finger and it should move it up out of the hole not BLOW YOUR FINGER out but lift it out of the hole a little. If you just feel some pressure it is low on compression and may be the cause of the hard starting problem. If you feel nothing then it may be the piston has a hole in it. Get back on that compression hope it lifts your finger out of the hole otherwise you have internal engine damage. If it lifted your finger out and Since you already have the PLUG out HOLD IT ON THE VALVE COVER and crank it and see if it is sparking nice and blue. Get back on those two. Alleyoop Thanks Alleyoop I checked the compression and it seemed strong enough, my spark was present but maybe a little inconsistent so I went ahead and ordered a new coil just for good measure. I have a question pertaining to the carb, I ordered the 18mm stock carb from scrappydogscooters along with a performance air filter that included a # jet. I didn't find the jet in the package when I received it so I assumed he installed it into the carb and took out the stock main jet. I understand a # might be too big if not accompanied by the performance air filter as I wasn't going to install it until the scooter was able to run. Could this be a reason it won't start as the carb is flooding or would it still start either way and just run very bogged down? Thanks
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Post by nofxortiz on Mar 17, 2013 20:29:27 GMT -5
Is the motor in time is the piston top dead center with every timing mark lined up Sorry if this is ignorance but if you're referring to setting the fan to T-mark or top dead center and the cam lined up correctly when adjusting the valves then yes. I'm not sure how I would adjust the timing of the spark when a CDI is used.
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Post by nofxortiz on Mar 17, 2013 20:07:13 GMT -5
take off the carb and intake , crank it and dribble some gas down the hole . Have you checked the valves ? what about the plug wet dry clean dirty ? John I've checked the valves twice and gapped them at 0.003/0.004, there wasn't any indication of damage to the rocker arm either. When I replaced the plug originally with an NGK the plug was dry and charred, and when I checked the new plug for spark today it was still dry and clean (does spark).
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Post by nofxortiz on Mar 17, 2013 19:32:29 GMT -5
Nof all you have to do is ask . John John, thanks for the help. Yeah i've tried injected fuel and seeing if it'll crank but it doesn't seem to make a difference. I was thinking about trying that method of taking out the bendix and attaching a drill to the variator to manually start it to see if that helps, I don't have access to a drill at this moment. The only thing I can think of that might be diagnostically relevant is the slight "popping" I get when trying to kickstart it. It's not very loud, and i've read thats symptomatic of a rich mixture or flooding but the scoot hasn't even started so i'm not too sure of that. This could also be a vacuum leak like others have stated but i've examined and re-examined every cm from the intake manifold to the carb to the airbox and I don't see any hint of crack or somewhere that isn't sealed. Everything looks in new condition.
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Post by nofxortiz on Mar 17, 2013 19:03:26 GMT -5
I've read through your stuff again mate, and I'm still leaning towards fuel supply/vacuum. Fuel filter? Lines connected up the right way? (Won't say old lines-I know you replaced them) Petcock? Vacuum blockage from debris in the lock up? I'm sorry I can't help further. Ian Hey guys, yes originally I thought it was a fuel problem but I didn't understand how petcock worked. I suck on the vacuum line and gas flows through the fuel line to the carb freely, I thought it was supposed to flow through vacuum line being sucked on. But yeah the petcock works perfectly and gas flows freely. I thought possibly maybe it was flooded, so I drained the bowl and started over again but same result. I'm pretty confident its not a fuel problem now from the research I've been doing, ive also drained all old gas and put fresh gas in the tank just in case. EDIT: Also for re-checking the electrical for possibility of it being the problem, I replaced the fuse and checked all wires. I assumed the lights wouldn't even turn on however if it was an electrical problem from looking at diagrams in the thread explaining how to check your CDI/Stator. I'm not too sure what else I could do for the electrical components besides replacing them entirely. The fact that it cranks strongly and doesn't start is making me believe its a starter motor issue, but the thing hasn't been opened before so I wouldn't see why it would be spinning in the wrong direction. Unless defective starter motors are common, but the original owner had it running before it died so I didn't think this could be the problem.
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Post by nofxortiz on Mar 17, 2013 17:25:48 GMT -5
is the battery fully charged ? if it is not the starter will not push the bendex/starter clutch out to engage . Your going to need to check the ignition system for power (power and pulse) . I would remove the cvt cover . John Battery isn't fully charged, I've been jumping it in attempt to start it as the battery died fr repeated start attempts. Actually taking the battery in right now to get charged to see if its in adequate shape. I actually just did take of the CVT cover to check to see if bendix is engaging. I spun it manually and it didn't seem to be a problem however I am not sure, this was the first time this CVT had been taken off so I was just hesitant to start thinking its a CVT problem as this scooter seems brand new. If by checking the ignition system for power and pulse you mean the CDI, I've checked it repeatedly as it seems as if its the only thing left to check as everything else seems fine. This battery charging is a last ditch effort, if it doesn't work I'm out of ideas. Thanks guys
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Post by nofxortiz on Mar 16, 2013 18:10:28 GMT -5
At a guess, I doubt it's the transmission that's locked. I'd suggest changing the engine and trans oil. Check both for debris (I doubt you'll be able check the engine oil for debris: if he's killed the engine in 77Km it'll probably be the original Chinese gunk in it). Get the valve cover off and check the valves and rocker gear for free movement, then get the belt and CVT covers off and see what you can move by hand. Hopefully you'll then be able to get it TDC and check the valve heights properly. It could just be that repeated failed starts with no valve movement has air locked the cylinder. It could be a jammed ring or other mechanical failure if he's not run it in properly. It does sound like thing has had zero TLC and may need some work. Ian Thanks Ian, I forget to include but yes I replaced both engine/gear oil and set the valves before all this. Yes this scooter was treated horribly and suspect it has more miles than the ODO says because the speedo cables was loose on the puck when I checked. I'm thinking possibly every problem but the no-start was created by myself, I replaced with a new carb from scrappydog. When checking to see if fuel comes from the drainage tube only a very small amount comes out. Im not sure of the drainage tube screw should be open or closed by default but the way the carb came it seems its not letting gas into the drainage tube. Also one other thing is when sucking on the vacuum tube from the petcock I can't get any fuel to come through, is this symptom of the petcock or possible some setting on the carb that I did not change from it's default? I seemed to rule out all fuel/air issues because I was under the assumption it was electrical but maybe I should go back to the basics, I need to get this engine un-locked first. EDIT: Okay managed to get it unlocked and cranking again if jumper cables are used, back to zero but still not sure why it won't start.
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Post by nofxortiz on Mar 16, 2013 17:39:06 GMT -5
Hey guys, i'm trying to cover all my bases and figure out whats wrong with my tao. This is my 3rd scooter and I've repaired and sold my first two so I have a very small amount of knowledge. I just recently purchased a Taotao ATM50 with only 77km on the odo off craigslist that wasn't running. It was purchased by the original owner in Aug. and hasn't been running since Dec.
It cranks but doesn't start, and first when I opened it up I saw the carb has been pretty damaged from trying to force the throttle open to idle higher. It looked as though they tried setting the valves as the fan case was missing a screw and was loose and same with the valve cover. When I replaced the original stock spark plug it looked pretty burnt and that made me think the guy tried to start this thing over and over and made me think possibly the ignition system was fried. I checked the NGK plug I installed to make sure it was firing and it was(I assume that means the coil is also functional?). I checked all voltages and resistance and to my knowledge the CDI is fine.
I Replaced: -carb -spark plug -battery - all the lines just to start fresh
Also replaced old oil with fresh engine/gear oil and set the valves to .003/.004.
After all this was done, I was attempting to start it and it cranked but then would only make a buzz noise coming from near the valves. I kept trying to start it and a clank noise came from the engine and then it wouldn't do anything when trying to start it. After this I tried the kickstart but it was locked up. The clank noise maybe from when it locked up as the kickstart would rotate earlier. It seems theres an issue with the transmission now as it's locked and I am at a loss where to go next with this.
I'm doing a lot of reading to become more acquainted with the CVT because I do not understand where all these weird noises are coming from when I started, especially the buzzing and no cranking when I attempt to start it. Any help would be appreciated guys to get me in the right direction as i'm pretty lost at this point.
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Post by nofxortiz on Mar 15, 2013 2:04:31 GMT -5
The small scooters with 10 inch wheels can only go so fast before coming unstable . When I put on a 50mm BBK my TaoTao would zoom but it was like stunt riding as it was more skeery than when I went 160 MPH on a Honda Hurricane ( later renamed CBR ) 100 . The ones with 10s often have a hub for a 13 inch wheel and thus display a faster rate on the speedo . Even Honda motorcycles are not 100 % accurate as CycleGear sells kits to get them more better to being accurate . Many performance variators have steeper ramps and a larger diameter which can yield 2 to 5 MPH gain in some cases . The clutch springs of 1k , 1.5k and 2k have the clutch engaging at their rated speed above the RPM of stock springs like a stall convertor in a car with an automatic tranny . The torque or contra spring can help with going uphill as lighter variator weights do as well . When you change the springs out you may also need heavier weights to use with stiffer springs . CVT tuning will require some trial and error of testing diff weights and springs until you get it as desired . The HP clutch springs can make the belt wear out a lil faster . I was looking at a DR Pulley clutch as it comes with spring sets and weights so you can fine tune it more so than others . The cost is several times more , DR Pulley is a well known good name in variator weights so I figured their clutches would be better than OEM ones but I read where a few members had failure . Hoca and NCY are both considered decent brands that are better than stock parts and not as expensive as the Itailian goodies . I am looking at a Stage6 CVT kt as I plan on installing a Stage 6 BBK with matching crank this summer when my outside jobs pick up . I have read several horro stories where the stock generic belt with some locking up the rear wheel causing a slide and in some cases a wreck . When a belt breaks it takes a while to clean out the dust and broken strands . Remove the CVT cover and see if you have a Gates Powerlink belt like some come with as many have a crapppy generic one that will not hold up or last as long as a Gates or Bando . I got 12,000 miles on my belt in my Echarm and could have went more but I changed it anyways to be safe as I like to do so rather than wait for a failure . I love to wrench like doing service work but it can suck at times when its repairs . Bando is made in Japan instead of China and that is what Hondas use and after doing some research and polling Bando seems to be the best brand . My 2T has a lil over 4,000 miles and still looks like new on the stock Gates belt but will be replaced with a Bando when its time . You can tune the CVT to improve your speed without touching the engine . You can have lighter weights to help on takeoff and uphill bu ttoo light will loose top end and MPG not to mention over rev the engine . Heavier can have more top end providing the engine is strong enough but really hurt take off and uphill . I used to think a CVT was wimpy compared to a manual wet clutch tranny until I rode a Polaris Ranger , a 500cc and a 600cc v twin all with a CVT instead of manual shift ( I love a manual clutch but hate a semi auto clutch ) and it really performed well and helped in desending down steep hills as I had over 30,000 acres to ride in a national park . Having a CVT is an advantage of a chain driven moped that has only one gear where the expansion of the belt acts like having gear ratios as it does not have a physical set of gears to shift like a manual tranny does . Even tuned a 49cc can only do so much and if you put it under too much stress plan on having it wear out faster and damage parts . With a BBK its instantly more power so the engine can hit top speed and not work as hard after upjetting the carb . Installing a BBK may require retuning the CVT as when I had a 49cc engine 5 grams was ok but with a BBK it would redline on level road and I could not push it hard when going downhill as I tried to not let it redline . Stock engine would hit 8,000 and fizzle above that but with a BBK , pipe , upjet and racing CDI it can now hit 10,500 sometimes 11,000 according to the tach . Not my lil scoot is a 2T and it can rev much higher than a 4t but the CVT tuning is similar on both other than a 4T has tranny drag and a 2T coasts . If you really want a 49cc or larger with a BBK then get a 2T as a tuned 70cc can smoke any small 4T and some 150s . I love to say " Its only a 50 but has an exhaust leak "as my pipe is very loud like a motorcross sound and decibel level and make 4T riders get 2T envy Really appreciated the insight of this post, thank you.
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Post by nofxortiz on Mar 13, 2013 17:00:09 GMT -5
Depends what you are trying to achieve i put in 1.5k spring and 1k clutch springs with a performance clutch, i need hill climbing power and good take off. I ride in town not many long straight aways all stop and go. Was those mods extreme enough for you to not take off comfortably and smoothly and make every acceleration "jumpy?"
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Post by nofxortiz on Mar 13, 2013 16:26:59 GMT -5
The NYC kit well work for you it has everything you need I'm interested in what the NYC-kit entails..
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Post by nofxortiz on Mar 12, 2013 14:08:19 GMT -5
Okay guys, maybe a rookie question here. How do I test for compression? I have a tao50 thats not starting and i'm thinking previous owners tried to start it an excessive amount of times, as the spark plug was burnt out.
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Post by nofxortiz on Mar 10, 2013 21:49:46 GMT -5
it may not be necessary but couldn't hurt, if you can get one for a good price get it. I'm just trying to choose between the 20mm performance carb or the 18mm prejetted as im not sure if i'm going to buy another if a BB is installed, thoughts?
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Post by nofxortiz on Mar 10, 2013 21:45:07 GMT -5
18 19 20mm all ran about the same for me. Is a 20mm necessary in conjunction with a BB?
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Post by nofxortiz on Mar 10, 2013 21:36:16 GMT -5
I just have a question about running a 20mm performance carb with all other components being stock. I intend to install a 80cc BB in the near future but I was thinking I needed to upgrade the carb prior to the BB. My question is will the scoot run appropriately with an upgraded carb and no other upgrades?
Also, im not too sure about order of upgrades, of course i'm concerned with power but I really would like good pop/takeoff speed off the line. Im looking at scrappydog and I see that the he usually recommends carb/air filter/coil as first upgrades, besides this and replacing cluth springs, should I be thinking about something else before the BB?
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