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Post by greens on Nov 5, 2013 12:20:30 GMT -5
Nothing? Nobody?  poor scooter. I bought a Chevy Cruze but i want to fix my toy! Anyone know of a repair shop in the LA area? What would one expect to pay to have something so cheap fixed? |
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Post by greens on Oct 2, 2013 12:00:06 GMT -5
Hey guys! been a while since i had a chance to work on the Hyosung 50cc.
I had some electrical problems, i replaced the R/R which was causing a dead short.
It still won't start. So i took out the spark plug. I still have compression, i can feel it pop when engaging the starter. I also believe it is getting fuel due to the smell.
The spark plug sparks ONCE, then nothing. Let it sit for a couple seconds and try again, ONE spark then nothing. This is the same with the starter and kick, just one initial spark then nothing.
What would cause this? Where should i start? Again, i only get one spark each time i engage the starter or kick it.
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Post by greens on Aug 29, 2013 9:49:15 GMT -5
R/R arrived today!
I ended up getting a cheaper one that looked right, and i believe it is a match.
My dead short is gone and all electrical seems to be working properly.
I haven't had a chance to test if it is charging because... It still won't start.
Starter is engaging and turning it over, but no dice.
So now i need to test for Fuel, Spark, and Air...
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Post by greens on Aug 20, 2013 16:06:51 GMT -5
Awh man, just got an email saying the R/R is actually taking the slow boat from china and could be a while...
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Post by greens on Aug 16, 2013 11:21:30 GMT -5
That schematic actually looks pretty accurate in places, but also seems a bit complex, I have no burglary system afaik, and some of what is referred to as “switches” aren’t present, unless they are like internal relays of some kind.
So I am going to purchase the exact match R/R today. Hopefully that will solve my problem. My concern is that after I get the R/R, it may fix my short, but not the fail to start. I can see the R/R here does go to a few places…
The weirdest thing is that I was using it without the R/R with great success, replacing the R/R is of course a good thing, but I can’t see how it worked before and now doesn’t. Maybe it’s flooded and since the choke won’t work it can’t get clear? Maybe it is because it is choked out and can’t enrich?
BAH, I will just wait until I get the R/R, then I can start testing for spark, seems like the best thing to do.
If I plug in the new R/R and it still grounds out then I have this diagram and can look elsewhere, although trial and error seems expensive.
I have to admit I got a little discouraged, having difficulty testing my R/R, among other things, like the ignition coil etc. I would feel silly if it was the very cheap ignition coil but I bought the much more expensive R/R.
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Post by greens on Aug 14, 2013 11:22:38 GMT -5
That article def helps, and lets me know that looks can be deceiving.
I found an exact OEM replacement… for 45 bucks. They also want 80 for a CDI… YIKES
The scoot worked for like 2 weeks like a champ without the R/R, foolish I know, but I thought all it did was turn AC to DC to charge the battery.
Then one day, started, rev’d, stalled, never to turn on again.
So right now I have to decide, 45 for the exact R/R or 20 for something that may or may not work….
I am going to dive deeper and see how that guy was able to test his R/R. I also am concerned that if I get a different R/R, I will have trouble diagnosing the fail to start, because I won’t really know if it is the R/R or something else. Then again, the new R/R not causing a shock should be a good indicator haha!
I have still yet to call local dealer, and Hyosung themselves… boss lurking over shoulder… I see the SF-50 is still in their catalog for 2013, so someone has parts somewhere! Which is a huge relief for me, really.
Even if I have to replace every component at dealership prices… its still cheaper than registering that car I have in the driveway!!
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Post by greens on Aug 14, 2013 1:40:50 GMT -5
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Post by greens on Aug 13, 2013 23:32:01 GMT -5
thing has 300km on it.
stock everything.
The only thing i could see from the R/R being unplugged was that it no longer charged the battery. But after looking at the schematic i can clearly see it is responsible for a great deal.
With the R/R plugged in the lights are on if the battery is connected. totally off with the key in my pocket, doesn't matter. I imagine if you stuck a light bulb on one of the bolts it would light up too, the whole bike is charged haha.
with the RR unplugged the light comes on when it is supposed to, with the key and switch on.
The R/R, or something attached to it, is causing a short, its grounding the positive somewhere, but since it has like 100 miles on it, the wires look great. One of the guys on the 4 stroke forum mentioned diodes, but i don't see anything like that on the bike or in the manual.
After replacing the R/R, i'd have to track down what was preventing the spark. That could be only a few things, the ignition coil, cdi, or the stator itself. I would have no idea how to test them. I have a meter, but the results i'm supposed to get according to the manual are well.. wrong.
it has been sitting for 6 or 7 years....
I guess there isn't really anything i can or should do until i replace the R/R
Would any R/R work?
On that note, will any 4+2 round 2 stroke 50cc CDI work?
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Post by greens on Aug 13, 2013 22:05:51 GMT -5
Some of the back story is posted in the wrong forum. I think a chinese 50cc 2 stroke would go here. Service Manual is pretty good. files.hyosungmotorsusa.com/SF50_service_manual.pdfSo i have been having some very odd electrical problems with a very low mile scoot. If the Regulator/rectifier is plugged in, the headlight will remain on after the scooter is off. it will cause the fuse to get very hot, and if the starter is engaged, the fuse breaks. With the Regulator/Rectifier unplugged, the scooter turns over but will not start. It smells of gasoline. It should be known that the scooter was originally able to start with the rectifier/regulator unplugged. Everything seemed to be working fine. only recently did it start, stall moments later, and not start again. I think it's safe to say the rectifier regulator is toast and can be replaced, plugging it in causes a short. Something else has probably now taken too much abuse from not having the R/R and will also need to be replaced? But before i can reliably test that i need the R/R. I see some online now, and will call the local dealers in the morning. I don't really know what i'm doing, maybe i should just see what they want to look at it. |
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Post by greens on Aug 13, 2013 15:03:15 GMT -5
EY!
I got the old, old battery from the guy, it's polarity is BACKWARDS.
I think it was dead, was charged backwards, and installed correctly (BUT ITS POLARITY IS REVERSED!!!)
No wonder he thought it needed a new battery...
This might explain the initial cause of the short, but not how to fix it or how much damage has been done.
I think that makes sense tho, reversed polarity, not enough to blow the 32v15a fuse, but enough to short out the R/R and maybe some diodes?
This could be a nightmare??!!
What doesn't make sense is why i am now getting a failure to start. Shorts don't take time, and my new battery is def positive on positive and it was working fine only yesterday without the R/R plugged in.
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Post by greens on Aug 13, 2013 11:00:02 GMT -5
That makes sense, things like the yellow wire that are not 12v are probably reading 12v then huh?
I will have to look for a wiring schematic and check those diodes out!
Uh Oh.
Something interesting happened, might be unrelated, but i'm sure it is.
Started her up this morning, put on helmet, and noticed she was revving up, up, up! (not that high but still not an idle, and enough to get the rear wheel spinning.
I put her down from the stand and rev it up, still revs fine, so i let off throttle...
Engine stalls, instantly, not like sputtered, but like someone turned it off.
Will not turn back on for the life of me! not with the starter or the kick!
Smells like Gasoline, so its getting fuel, but no spark?
I check CDI thinking that maybe the first wire i pulled came loose again which prevents start, nope, still secure.
I noticed the headlight is shattered, both filaments in tact, but the bulb itself is broken! ? its inside the headlight, no way it got touched! glass shards still shaking around in there. But i never got any readings over 12 volts, so i still am hesitant to admit that it blew up.
Diodes sound easy enough to check out!
I'm going to take another step back and completely test everything that i can test with my meter.
I know that i can cause electrical problems to spread, frying different things along the way, so for now i am going to take a step back until i figure this out.
Hopefully i didn't ruin something like the CDI? :S
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Post by greens on Aug 12, 2013 9:44:32 GMT -5
I must disagree.
The R/R's primary function is to turn generated AC to DC, and clean up the DC created.
No R/R means no electricity from the scooter is being distributed.
The Meter reads 12.0 with the scoot off, 12.0 with the scoot on, and 12.0 with the scoot at wide open throttle. That's what my lights are getting.
If anything getting rid of the R/R and relying solely on a battery is the cleaner form of power. Just that... it will inevitably deplete.
The question is, would the problem be caused by the R/R itself, or something farther down the line?
"Diodes" is kind of vague isn't it? Where are they, their function, how to test, etc.
Thanks!!
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Post by greens on Aug 11, 2013 21:09:11 GMT -5
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Post by greens on Aug 11, 2013 21:06:40 GMT -5
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Post by greens on Aug 11, 2013 20:26:00 GMT -5
Alright so when i bought my scoot the guy claimed it had a bad battery and that was all i needed because he didn't have one.
Well i got a new battery stuck it in and while it did work the first use, started, blinkers, etc. it didn't work after that.
Well i noticed the fuse was blown. Replaced it, and noticed that the lights were on even though the scoot was completely off and the key removed.
Try to use starter; Fuse blown.
Time to bust out the multimeter.
Red on positive black on frame and sure enough, i get a reading.
I think they call that a Dead Short?
The scooter hasn't been touched by anyone other than me, the wiring is all factory, and in good shape so i don't believe it's any of the wires.
Easy enough to trouble shoot i guess, so i prop up the multimeter and start disconnecting devices to see if my reading goes back to 1.00000
Up front by the headlight is a small device which looks like a heatsink that has a socket of 4 wires. The manual states this is a Rectifier/Regulator.
Unplug it and the multimeter instantly goes back to the 1.00.. reading! Nice!
Within the R/R itself, idk if this matters, but the 4th and 3rd slots pass continuity with flying colors, they are connected like a wire.
If i disconnect the R/R EVERYTHING works. The headlights turn off with the scoot, the starter can start without blowing the fuse, blinkers function, everything.
(except, and i'm guessing, my ability to charge my battery while running, and my ability to provide anything other than 12 volt power?)
SO again
Scooter completely off, with R/R connected, the lights stay on, the fuse gets too hot to touch, and the positive lead has continuity with the frame. Press starter and the fuse melts.
If i disconnect the R/R the fuse is no longer hot, at all. And everything appears to work great!
Therefore i have a bad R/R and need to get another one?
I believe the battery wasn't bad, rather destroyed, as it was just permashorting out until the fuse blew, and if you never tried to start it the fuse never blew, and the poor battery just sat there shorted out. (i'm pretty sure i ruined my replacement battery too, but the autoshop exchanged it, since then i of course do not leave the R/R conneted)
The big question for me is, does this make sense? Would an R/R go bad, and would it cause these symptoms? Could something the PO done simply shorted out the R/R?
Can i run the bike without the R/R? If i plug the RR in lights stay on and fuse and battery start to heat up, can't be healthy. Without the RR everything works great.
Where can i find a new R/R? Seem pretty generic, i could just make one fit?
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