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Post by JR on Jan 30, 2016 19:45:38 GMT -5
when i first heard about the notorious valve stems i decided to check mine (a long time ago i might add). the rubber was all dry rotted and i bent the stem over to give it a thorough checking out. i was amazed the stem stayed in the wheel. i removed both wheels, tire and all, and drove them down to the local tire shop to get those stems replaced. about the engine oil, i used straight dino oil (valvoline 10W40), changed once a month. my engine took slightly less than a quart per change, so the cost was minimal. the final drive oil can go longer between changes because it doesn't collect combustion byproducts Change mine once or twice per year and over the year I end up with a lower carbon footprint and the cost is even lower than going with dino oil and a more constant monthly oil change schedule. The correct 4T Dino Oil to use in a motorbike or scooter is $3.97 per quart at Walmart with the 4T Synthetic selling at $8.47 per quart. If your bike has a real oil filter your cost per year is at the most basic level $3.97 times 13 since most bikes take a hair over a quart or $51.61 not counting tax, cleaning supplies, trips to dispose of the old oil, O-Rings, etc compared to $17.48 for a $34.13 basic savings not counting the money saved on the 11 additional oil plug O-Rings, cleaner/rags for 11 additional cleanups and 11 additional quarts of oil to dispose of along with the tire wear and fuel consumed disposing of all that oil not to mention lost time. That is using Valvoline however if you switch to MagTech 4T Full Synthetic which is also respectable your costs go down to $5.30 per quart for a $10.60 annual cost saving $41.01 per year over using dino oil. If you have multiple bike in your family this could multiply and end up saving a few hundred dollars every year lowering your carbon foot print by 40 or 50 quarts of oil each year. Then there is the savings on oil filters needing only 1 per year compared to 6 or 12 which can be another $30 to $60 per bike. It can end up being the best of both worlds becoming a better steward of the environment and saving money along with potentially have a longer lasting better running bike. No oil filter on this scooter and let's remember basically these engines are glorified lawn mower engines, got a 1988 twin 14HP B&S engine that maybe over those years has had the "dino" oil changed 5 or 6 times. Ran the mower today pulling my wagon of tools that I do yard work with, started in seconds smokes a little but again it was built in 1988. Also on this scooter that I also own just with the linhai instead of the vertical engine I've changed my oil 4 times = 15k in miles since draining the OEM oil, the change once a month or even at 3k miles even with dino oil is BS IMO. Again engine is 8 years old, rode the scooter this afternoon as it was a nice 77F here and she hauled butt. I'll take the $4 a quart I save on oil and use it for gas riding or a ice cream on the ride along the way.  I got talked into synthetic oil one time on my Bali 150, two weeks after putting it in the engine was leaking like a bucket shot with buck shot. Pulled it apart put new gaskets on it throughout, and just for the heck of it put new rings in it. That was over 6k miles ago. All on Castrol dino oil. Also I use old discarded cotton clothes for rags, have no oil filter, and old oil is a great fire ant killer  so $0 cost on all of that, so in the 8 years I've owned my 250B I've spent less that $20 on oil. MPG is based on lot's of factors, tire pressure, weight of rider, riding habits, terrain, oil has very little impact. I've also never tore a engine apart with bad seals or rubber due to dino oil. There was a member from way back a friend of mine from Missouri and he put over 35k on his linahi 250B before he put a BBK on it, he used cheap 30W Dollar Store oil under $3 a quart.  JR |
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Post by oldchopperguy on Jan 31, 2016 1:48:38 GMT -5
oldchopperguy No way Leo! But I have learned some things about these machines the hard way and just like you as a person who has rode two wheels a long time there is PM, fixing and tinkering, the tinkering most of the time had me walking!  JR
JR, You're too modest!
You've forgotten more techno-stuff than I'll ever know... LOL! I have been lucky with tinkering, with most of it ending up OK. Today however, I'm too old, too slow and time is too precious to spend doing much tinkering. I am TRULY happy that my old Kymco has been sort of "bullet-proof" and requiring no fixing whatsoever except better tires.
WHAT a DIFFERNCE good tires make!
Anyway, if you're NOT a genius, you'll do until one comes along...
Ride safe!
Leo
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Post by yelloscoot on Jan 31, 2016 11:52:09 GMT -5
oldchopperguy JR yelloscoot May I ask why you are even considering replacing the coil on a scooter that has one that is working perfectly? What do you expect to gain? 99% of all "so called" ignition upgrades are just that so called. As I said before if you want this scooter to run without issues, strip it down and do a PDI and I'm saying go through every connection plug, check for lose bolts, replace the pitiful tire valve stems, replace the brake fluid, coolant and tranny oil. Want a smooth ride get rid of the hard as concrete tires and replace them with some Avons. Replace dim bulbs with bright LEDs. Betting money the temp gauge is a loose wire. You'll not gain anything by changing the coil or CDI, waste of time and money. Also going to synthetic oil? The difference between dino oil and synthetic oil for a scooter is when you change the engine oil you'll be throwing away $10 a quart oil with synthetic versus $3 a quart oil with dino oil. In Texas where it is hot in the summer use a good grade 20W/50W oil, I use Catrol GT, got 15k on my 2008 model 250B and I have rode it to Dallas where my sons live on 5 different occasions 416 miles one way from my house. That's over 4k in miles on 5 trips. The last time two years ago I did it in July and the temp was 106F at 5 p.m. when I arrived. I drove the piss out of it that day, in fact I've never babied this scooter and all 15k miles have been on dino oil. It doesn't use a drop of oil and still runs like a scalded ape, it'll purr down the highway at 60mph + with no issues. My 250B is now 8 years old, still has every single thing on it OEM except the fuel pump and even then I didn't replace it because I had to I just put a Mikuni on it because I got a real steal off of Ebay for 4 of them for $5 each and put it on for the heck of it. When I say OEM I mean what makes it run CDI, coil stator, R/R, carb, etc. I did also add the taller GIVI windshield and LED's for brighter/safer lights. Do a great PDI, don't fix what isn't broke, change the oil and ride it. JR Thank you JR, that's a lot of food for thought.  The hotter coil and CDI , by my logic, is going to burn more efficiently for better MPG stats and easier starts on cold mornings. Though, when you put it that way,...I haven't had any real issues with starting on the freezing (low 30's), early mornings, we've had here on my way to work. First thing is to take the rain cover off and turn the ignition on while undoing the brake lock. Then I'll get it started, sometimes, take two tries. She'll chug along slowly at first then build up to idle with no problem. I'll let'er warm up for 4-5 minutes, shut'er down, then leave 20 mins. later. It's not broken.....The PDI is what I'm really apprehensive about. It's not the tightening of screws, replacing hoses, checking connectors (already have Permatex Dielectric Grease) and such. It's the removal of all the Tupperware that has me concerned. Plastic baggies, lots of photos and TLC are the key. So far, I've tried removing the cover below the windshield,...twice.  I just don't want to break any tabs, or strip any screw holes, and have things misaligned upon refitting.  I already have the LED Headlights, and have, a new Signal Flasher and Brake Light Flasher on the way this week. Also, you mentioned, your Givi windshield. Would it be this Givi Windshield (they have two in-stock). If it is...what is the little "light-looking-thingie" at the base? If so, then I'll get one ordered, to arrive by next weekend. Or, if you have a different link, that would be great. The wind buffeting is driving me CrAzY. I'm wanting to get as much done as possible doing the PDI while having it all apart for the first time. They're not broken.....but need improvement.
The tires, now that you mention it,...SUCK! I had thought that Kendas were pretty good. They were, I guess, on Yellow. But, as Leo said, that was on a 150. I've been thinking I needed to look into new shocks. I had completely forgotten about Avon. I went to my usual on-line store and found the Avon AM63 Viper Stryke, on sale. They also have a Avon Viper Stryke AM63 Scooter Tire Kit with Front-120/70-13 and Rear-140/60-13 or 150/70-13. I'm just not sure if the wider rear tire will fit the rim or have clearance in the fender. Once again, not broken....just needs improvement. The oil, I'm still, up in the air about. I've had a good experience with Mobil 1 Synth., but after reading the previous posts, I'm debating. Maybe just a good quality Mobil "dino" will work for me too. I'll find something I feel comfy with using. Thanks much, Loren, oh so much to do, in Dallas
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Post by rockynv on Jan 31, 2016 12:01:47 GMT -5
JR,
I was hoping they had added filtration at least to the Yamaha engine by now especially as they keep bumping up the displacement. I am really spoiled now after the years on the Aprilia with the Piaggio engine.
Suppose that's the difference in getting a scooter built by an aircraft manufacturer as your main form of transportation. Already 30,000 miles on the bike with zero break downs with synthetic being the factory spec with 5 oil changes over the 30,000 miles so the costs are about the same as yours but still with a lower carbon footprint. The worlds manufacturers in general stopped using rubber seals that are not compliant with synthetic oil for the most part 30 or so years ago back in the early 1980's so its got to be a really bad situation to be getting a new engine today that's not compliant with synthetic.
Its not just Piaggio specifying synthetic, SYM specifies to use dino for break-in and switch to synthetic at the break-in oil change. Possibly for the ceramic cylinder.
Briggs lawn mower engines are better than most think. Briggs as it turns out is just about the largest manufacturer of high performance engines in the world. I would like to see what would happen if Briggs started making generic 150 to 500 cc CVT engines to use in scooters.
Here in Pinellas County the oil as weed killer can get you in serious trouble if the environmental officer catches you. Aside from the fine then there is the cleanup fees to pay which can be astronomical.
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Post by JR on Jan 31, 2016 22:37:46 GMT -5
JR, I was hoping they had added filtration at least to the Yamaha engine by now especially as they keep bumping up the displacement. I am really spoiled now after the years on the Aprilia with the Piaggio engine. Suppose that's the difference in getting a scooter built by an aircraft manufacturer as your main form of transportation. Already 30,000 miles on the bike with zero break downs with synthetic being the factory spec with 5 oil changes over the 30,000 miles so the costs are about the same as yours but still with a lower carbon footprint. The worlds manufacturers in general stopped using rubber seals that are not compliant with synthetic oil for the most part 30 or so years ago back in the early 1980's so its got to be a really bad situation to be getting a new engine today that's not compliant with synthetic. Its not just Piaggio specifying synthetic, SYM specifies to use dino for break-in and switch to synthetic at the break-in oil change. Possibly for the ceramic cylinder. Briggs lawn mower engines are better than most think. Briggs as it turns out is just about the largest manufacturer of high performance engines in the world. I would like to see what would happen if Briggs started making generic 150 to 500 cc CVT engines to use in scooters. Here in Pinellas County the oil as weed killer can get you in serious trouble if the environmental officer catches you. Aside from the fine then there is the cleanup fees to pay which can be astronomical. Very good points rockynv and as far as the officer, let him hit a pile of these eat your butt up fire ants and he'll be the first to ask why they have quit making everything that'll kill the damn things!  They are a serious problem here in Arkieland and Texas too and actually can be deadly to small animals and humans! One never kills them all only controls them, this past fall I have poisoned over 300 hills of them on my 5 acres. I'm not even sure if old oil will keep killing them as they seem to adapt and survive what is thrown at them. JR |
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Post by oldchopperguy on Jan 31, 2016 23:32:10 GMT -5
Yelloscoot, The GIVI windshield in your post is similar to mine. It's the swell near the bottom that keeps your hands warm! I absolutely LOVE that... Here's an early pic of Minnie (still wearing those awful Kendas) at a similar angle to the Givi link pic.  Your stock windshield looks like a very good one to me, missing only the hand-warmers. I actually doubt that the new Givi would reduce the "wind-grab" tendency. Mine does that too. Honestly though, you DO get used to it. Honest! The WORST example is when you're on a 2-lane highway doing 70 and an oncoming semi doing 70 meets you... Woo-HOO! A 140 mph sideways slap in the face... Feels like you popped the parachute on a dragster! LOL! I guess it doesn't bother me all that much because I rode Harley baggers for decades... Same wind-grab... Makes a 900 pound Hog feel like a Chinese 50... HeHeHe  I believe I'd spend the money on P-rated tires before buying a windshield. Givi makes a swell product, but I don't see it helping the wind problem. Also, a shield made for the Honda might not be a true bolt-on for your Jonway. Contours in the plastic and mounts might not be quite identical to the Honda. As you said, the Kenda tires were just fine on my 150 (which is about a clone of yours). They just didn't work out at all on the 250. As for oil, I've always used 15W-40 Diesel in both the 150, and the 250 since that's what the manuals recommend. JR has a point though, with even heavier oil. I think he said 20W-50. As an old-school biker, THAT sounds good to me. I don't think dino or synthetic will make much difference on simple motors like ours. The first owner of Minnie put 14K miles on her, nearly ALL WOT highway, with a passenger and heavy load. He also used 15W-40 dino oil and with an additional 2K miles of my own, Minnie doesn't use a drop of oil, or even make a whisp of smoke upon startup. Both of our 250's are just basic GY6 150's with more cc's and water-cooling. Simple, but they LAST! I got out today to get RX for the missus, and with you in mind, I purposely hit the freeway while some strong cross-winds were on 121. Yeah, the wind really DOES grab the mouse, but a little lean keeps her straight. When you're not yet used to it, a foot or so left or right SEEMS like you're heading for another lane, but usually you stay in a lane almost "automatically". Up-sizing to a more capable ride does bring some surprises, but you'll handle it. Remember with me, Minnie is a lot shorter than your Yin Yang... So she's also "squirrellier" LOL! Ride safe and HANG ON in that wind! Leo |
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Post by JR on Feb 1, 2016 8:21:35 GMT -5
yelloscoot That is the windshield I bought, it will bolt up apples for apples, they actually made two versions at one time, a shorter one and a taller one, I got the tallest. Now I'll give you a good PDI tip and this will save you from ever having a issue with securing your windshield. The windshield is behind the little front plastic cover. It is bolted on with small screws that screw in to what is called "dwell nuts" like in this photo:  Just like the tire valve stems they are poor rubber and will rot and get loose. After unscrewing the windshield they easily pull out. You can buy these at any good True Value or Ace hardware along with other hardware stores made of good rubber. If I remember they are 3/8" in diameter. They work by expanding when you pull the screw down tight. REPLACE yours and also use stainless steal or brass screws. You can also buy rubber washers and brass washers to place against the windshield with the screws to give it a tight secure fit and then NEVER have to worry about this again. Put a tiny bit of grease on the screw in case you ever want to remove the windshield again so the screws won't seize in the future. JR
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Post by rockynv on Feb 1, 2016 13:57:03 GMT -5
JR - Unfortunately we know why and its because of people who won't follow directions. I had a quart bottle of 72% Chlorodane which you used a teaspoon full at a time and was going to last me many years however the brother-in-law waltzed into my garage and dumped the whole bottle into a 2 gallon sprayer and emptied it around his house in one sitting. Because of guys like that they reduced the max potency to 25% which still got abused and then they outlawed it all together. Dursbane and diazanone are now off the shelves to because of abusers using such stong concentrations that it was ending up in the aquifier before it could break down.
I'll try and keep better in mind the differences between the Piaggio engines and the Linhai/Yamaha however I really hoped that the gaps would be closing faster then they have been as time passes.
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Post by JR on Feb 1, 2016 15:03:20 GMT -5
rockynv You missed my point, poisons that are still allowed to be used are slowly losing the ability to kill/control a lot of insects especially ones like fire ants. The theory was time past they would never go past Texas, why? Too cold for them. Well guess what, they are as far north now as Iowa, cold weather just means they go deeper under the colder ground. Malathion used to kill them on contact, now they just get high off of it. JR
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Post by oldchopperguy on Feb 1, 2016 22:19:06 GMT -5
JR,
I guess guys like you and me are "old school"... and just MAYBE a little pink behind the ears... LOL! This politically-correct stuff gets old. Fast.
There's always SOME good use for "repurposing" stuff like used motor oil, battery acid, stale gasoline... Old, sweaty dynamite... left-over black-powder... It's all good medicine when it comes to fire-ants. Heck, everybody in my trailer park knows that dumping their used lacquer-thinner down the toilet keeps the sewer running free! And, it discourages rats and roaches...
I used to think the fire-ant was the national animal of Texas. And it took YEARS for me to figure out that armadillos were NOT born FLAT.
It's been rumored that local cows here smoke unfiltered Marlboros and fart pure Freon... When I was little, I thought DDT on veggies was a seasoning...
The EPA is taking all the fun out of life.
Leo (trying REALLY hard NOT to sit on fire-ants) in Texas |
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Post by yelloscoot on Feb 1, 2016 22:51:26 GMT -5
Thanks JR . I did a lot or research last night and came across one of your posts on the late Scoot Dawg ( That was my first forum...ever). It shows the D211ST with the "reflector". I checked every link I could find for that one but no luck. I also checked around for the shorter Givi D210ST, but, the only one I could find was the one of two that Zilla had. So, to the best of my knowledge, there is only one left in the entire World.  Mine should be here on Thursday. I had also found links, for the fix on the windshield mounts, but If I recall correctly they were broken. Either way, thank you for posting that info. There is an Ace just a couple minutes from me, so, that's an easy fix. Thanks oldchopperguy , Leo, I ordered a set of Avon AM63 Viper Stryke 130/60-13's today. A Friday delivery for them. I'm very interested to see if the ride smooths out with the Avon's over the Kenda's. I really like the curve on Minnie's Givi. They're very pronounced and stylish. It's nice to know that the extra flare helps with keeping the hands warm. On the mornings when its hovering at 28-37 degrees, the stock windshield has a lot to be desired. It's not just getting on the highway that the "wind" is a problem with the stock. Just normal tooling around town with the turbulence and wind noise just makes me feel like not riding.  Hopefully the new Givi and Avons will do the trick.  Thanks Ya'll, Loren |
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Post by JR on Feb 1, 2016 23:20:58 GMT -5
yelloscoot Since they quit making the Honda Reflex they quit making the windshields too. 
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Post by rockynv on Feb 1, 2016 23:42:53 GMT -5
rockynv You missed my point, poisons that are still allowed to be used are slowly losing the ability to kill/control a lot of insects especially ones like fire ants. The theory was time past they would never go past Texas, why? Too cold for them. Well guess what, they are as far north now as Iowa, cold weather just means they go deeper under the colder ground. Malathion used to kill them on contact, now they just get high off of it. JR I still believe its overuse so that the environment is so saturated with these poisons they become hardened to it as in the case of the murderer who keeps taking dosages of arsenic so he can eat the same meal as his intended victim and survive. Some believe that rotation of pesticides is going to be required so that they do not get hardened to any one particular toxin or possibly to revisit old pesticides once they enough generations pass to no longer be resistant. The Formosan termite is becoming the new scourge as are the Chilean Recluse Spiders that are getting imported in wood products from South America. A termite that will burrow through concrete, between steel plate and through copper/aluminum to move past the commercial spaces to get at the hard wood furnishings in the upper floors of a Miami Hi Rise is a tough one. UF did some tests with copper arsenic and while it killed the native species these bad boys totally consumed the freshly treated 6X6 lumber and thrived. |
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Post by JR on Feb 2, 2016 0:03:40 GMT -5
rockynv You missed my point, poisons that are still allowed to be used are slowly losing the ability to kill/control a lot of insects especially ones like fire ants. The theory was time past they would never go past Texas, why? Too cold for them. Well guess what, they are as far north now as Iowa, cold weather just means they go deeper under the colder ground. Malathion used to kill them on contact, now they just get high off of it. JR I still believe its overuse so that the environment is so saturated with these poisons they become hardened to it as in the case of the murderer who keeps taking dosages of arsenic so he can eat the same meal as his intended victim and survive. Some believe that rotation of pesticides is going to be required so that they do not get hardened to any one particular toxin or possibly to revisit old pesticides once they enough generations pass to no longer be resistant. The Formosan termite is becoming the new scourge as are the Chilean Recluse Spiders that are getting imported in wood products from South America. A termite that will burrow through concrete, between steel plate and through copper/aluminum to move past the commercial spaces to get at the hard wood furnishings in the upper floors of a Miami Hi Rise is a tough one. UF did some tests with copper arsenic and while it killed the native species these bad boys totally consumed the freshly treated 6X6 lumber and thrived. That's exactly what I mean, around here they are replacing the old creosote electric poles with ones treated like lumber which if you're not aware is a mixture of salt and arsenic. They are already realizing their mistake as they are finding termites are now eating the poles up. Also in areas here where woodpeckers thrive they are having to put wire around poles or use concrete ones. Woodpeckers eat the treated poles up while ignoring the creosote poles. JR |
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Post by oldchopperguy on Feb 2, 2016 9:18:49 GMT -5
JR... Ah, CREOSOTE! One of my favorite flavors...
You have not lived until you've enjoyed a fine steak (or maybe a 'possum...) cooked over wood harvested from an old utility pole... I think BURNING the creosote must infuse some "Superman" meds in the meat...
Only kidding... ONLY KIDDING!
Leo
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