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Post by dollartwentyfive on Dec 15, 2015 16:38:20 GMT -5
it's all about the ride, and that's true.
so, here is a thread to point out things that will make that ride safer for you.
i was going to put this in the 250 section because safety becomes very important with that class of scoots, but there are some things that are important for all classes of motorized bikes.
the very first thing you should know is, be aware of your surroundings and be seen.
anticipate that left turning driver to turn in front of you.
expect that cager to look right at you, and still fail to see you.
last i heard, "the hurt report" is still a valid document in regards to motorcycle crashes and their causes.
next up is braking technique.
i thing mopeds teach an improper braking technique in that moped riders just grab both brakes and squeeze.
i can only imagine the number of spills this has caused.
it becomes all too easy to lock up that front wheel, and when that happens, you can usually kiss the pavement ( or in this case the loose grit)
if you are on anything except clean, dry, asphalt (or concrete) then stay out of that front brake as much as possible.
now for some finer points.
even clean, dry, asphalt can be hazardous.
not all roads are "flat", some have dips and "hills" ( i call it "heaving").
running over a stretch of road such as this can throw you off the bike.
another major concern is unfamiliar roads, especially "back roads".
there is nothing quite like screaming down a straight stretch of road, only to top a slight mound and see nothing but wall to wall gravel and potholes.
the first thing to remember is STAY OUT OF THAT FRONT BRAKE.
dress for the weather, you should always wear protective clothing, but cold weather riding requires more clothes than you think.
consider a full body rainsuit.
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Post by wheelbender6 on Dec 15, 2015 20:55:06 GMT -5
"i think mopeds teach an improper braking technique in that moped riders just grab both brakes and squeeze."
I think the main big thing about braking is that we need to remember to practice emergency stops in a safe place like an empty parking lot. As our brake pads and shoes wear, the "feel" of our brakes can change, so we need to practice.
Proficiency at differential braking (I think that is what you mean) comes with experience. Guys that have been riding for years can do it safely, but I'm not so sure that newbies can grasp it.
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Post by oldchopperguy on Dec 15, 2015 20:55:56 GMT -5
Good post! Good info for new riders, and, good reminders for us "seasoned" bike-jockeys.
One thing you might also consider (especially during CORNERING and BRAKING) is to stay off the CENTER of the lane on paved surfaces. That "dark stripe" down the center ESPECIALLY the hundred yards or so before busy intersections is oil and other "schmootz" dripped from vehicles. It can be murder on 2-wheeled rides, especially when first wetted by light rain.
When possible, it's best to stay in the "clean" areas left and right of the center grime. You can still dominate your lane without staying in the center.
Ride safe!
Leo in Texas
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Post by oldchopperguy on Dec 15, 2015 21:14:25 GMT -5
"i think mopeds teach an improper braking technique in that moped riders just grab both brakes and squeeze." I think the main big thing about braking is that we need to remember to practice emergency stops in a safe place like an empty parking lot. As our brake pads and shoes wear, the "feel" of our brakes can change, so we need to practice. Proficiency at differential braking (I think that is what you mean) comes with experience. Guys that have been riding for years can do it safely, but I'm not so sure that newbies can grasp it.
Wheelbender6,
Very true! Many scooters today (even my old Kymco GrandVista) incorporate partial both-wheel braking on the front lever. This seems to be a good thing, especially for low-speeds on slippery surfaces, at least I like it on mine.
Back in the sixties, like many guys, I rode a Harley chopper with only a rear-brake. Talk about insanely-unsafe... LOL! No worries about differential braking... Just plan on locking up the rear wheel with just a "touch" and taking a couple of blocks to stop if you're going more than 40 mph... LOL!
My second chopper was adorned with brakes fore and aft... Albeit pretty sorry brakes by today's standards, but at least brakes...
Still in love with choppers, and somewhat excited about the recent resurgence of interest in old-school choppers, I'm a little nervous about the young purists who are going back to the no-front-brake practice to emulate the original chopper look. With compact, great-looking modern disk-brakes available there's no reason to go without a front brake, even on a vintage springer-fork.
Fifty years of riding have convinced me that you need brakes on BOTH ends of your ride, whether it's a 5 hp scoot, or a 400 hp crotch-rocket. And you need to use them skillfully...
Ride safe!
Leo in Texas
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Post by JerryScript on Dec 15, 2015 21:37:37 GMT -5
One more braking tip, do not use your front brakes in a turn, only the rear. It is easy to lock the front when turning and flip the ride, and using front brakes in a turn makes the steering squirrely and dangerous even if it doesn't lock up. In an emergency it's better to straighten the front wheel before hitting the front brake, then turn when slow enough.
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Post by rockynv on Dec 16, 2015 0:26:12 GMT -5
It is my understanding that more people dump there bikes either pulling into or duck walking back out of a parking space than at any other time. If you lock up the front brake even at walking speed you will flip your bike if the front wheel is turned too far to either side. That is about the only time where you use only the rear brake otherwise even on sand its modulated control and finesse.
Don't fear the front brake since using it is critical to safe stopping so practice and learn to use it appropriately.
A good discussion for the All About Safety Section of the Forum.
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Post by hillbillybob on Dec 16, 2015 7:46:41 GMT -5
oldchopperguy said: Fifty years of riding have convinced me that you need brakes on BOTH ends of your ride, whether it's a 5 hp scoot, or a 400 hp crotch-rocket. And you need to use them skillfully.
rockynv said: Don't fear the front brake since using it is critical to safe stopping so practice and learn to use it appropriately.
Entering my 51st year of motorcycling, and I totally agree with the two statements above.......to develop a habit of using rear brake only, will get one into big trouble, sooner or later.
I would hope that any newer riders, would heed the advice of us old timers, and the cumulative wisdom of over a century of riding experience......and....learn to use the front brake correctly.
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Post by dollartwentyfive on Dec 16, 2015 9:12:46 GMT -5
i think the lesson is clear, that front brake isn't as simple as you might think it it.
the main concern here, is to NOT lock it up.
another area about brakes are the so called ABS.
these types of brakes lessen the chance of lockups, but in the case of chinese rides do not prevent them.
some have pointed out areas where to be careful, but there are others too.
the following means to use extreme caution:
sand, gravel, bunches of wet leaves, potholes, intersections, tollbooths.
while all of the above can be hazardous, i consider intersections especially so.
not only do you have to deal with oily surfaces, you have to be very aware of EVERYTHING, especially when semis are present.
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Post by ricardoguitars on Dec 16, 2015 11:18:38 GMT -5
You need BOTH brakes, the thing is to avoid lock-ups, not only on the front brake, also on the rear brake, a rear brake lock-up is a guarantee from your scooter throwing it's butt to the front, most of the weight on scooters is concentrated on the rear wheel. On normal conditions on a straight line you can follow the 70-30 rule, 70% of braking strength on the front, and 30% on the rear, increasing the braking strength gradually as the speed decreases. If you are going slow (traffic jam/filtering speed) on a straight line, you can drag the rear brake to help you with balance; on a turn you shouldn't be using your brakes if you had planned the turn properly, if you are forced to use the brakes for reasons out of your control on a turn (like a cager stopping right in front of you, or something else gets in the way suddenly), you should first put the bike straight and then stop, if you just need to slow down, use the rear brake gently. For emergency braking NEVER EVER apply 100% of braking strength, in most cases instead of braking you should be accelerating away from the troubles (brake then swerve; or swerve then brake, accordingly to the occasion), if you are trapped and can't find a way out on time, use your brakes wisely, since most scooters don't have ABS systems to prevent a lock-up, you can use the "poor man's ABS", apply and release the brakes on quick intervals, that helps to avoid a lock-up.  |
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Post by oldchopperguy on Dec 16, 2015 16:06:47 GMT -5
Ricardoguitars,
Good advice, particularly on a fast bike... Ah, my scooter is about 100 hp SHORT of being able to accelerate around a bad-hair day... LOL! The brakes are doggoned good though. Only once have I gotten cut SO short (by a cager, on purpose) that I had to make a true panic stop. I hit the rear brake HARD and as it began to lock, I hit the front brake HARD... All in about a half-second... I was VERY happy to find the scoot kept straight and controllable, even with both wheels locked... AND when still a few feet short of "eating bumper" can be hauled over and slid sideways. Now, on DRY pavement, THAT delivers some SERIOUS stopping power... LOLOLOL!
There was no time to "finesse" the stop... Just squeeze and hang on.
I've ridden a few modern cycles with great control on the brakes, but I was really pleased that the old Kymco would handle so well in an "O.S." situation. Since then, I've practiced numerous panic stops on dry pavement, wet pavement, wet leaves, oily center-of-the-lane, etc. and found old "Minnie Mouse" will stop straight, slide in-control, or whatever I ask the old girl to do, wheels turning, or locked. I've personally never had any bike THAT good on stops before. Try that stuff on a vintage Hog and you'll be needing body-work on YOU and the HARLEY...
I don't like the idea of locking the wheels, but on DRY pavement, I found the locked tires have more "stop" on the pavement than the brakes alone. Absolutely NOT so on anything slippery however!!! I would NOT recommend the practice unless you experiment plenty to see how the scoot handles, but apparently my old scoot has very good weight-distribution and balance. The tires are great too.
I do all possible to AVOID panic stops at all times, but in extreme cases, automatic reflexes take over and you do the "gorilla-squeeze" with little finesse and wheels are likely to lock. My old Chinese 150 would do a NASTY "snake dance" if EITHER wheel locked up, but the old Kymco has truly amazing manners, even when brakes are locked, and the scoot is intentionally slid broadside to a stop. Woo-HOO! Good old Minnie Mouse!
Ride safe, and do practice some panic stops on varied surfaces (dry, wet, leaves, oil, gravel, etc.) just to know what the scoot will, and will NOT do. You'll avoid surprises, and have a LOT more confidence when that bad-hair day comes...
If, God forbid, I end up hitting something, I want to be going absolutely as SLOW as possible when it happens... LOL!
Leo in Texas
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Post by dollartwentyfive on Dec 16, 2015 16:43:03 GMT -5
another important area of safety is ride inspection.
get into the habit of inspecting your ride.
look for burned out bulbs, missing screws and bolts.
replace these items before your next ride.
a missing body panel body bolt might seem minor, but at speed the wind can get under it and rip it off.
check for proper tire inflation.
if at all possible, replace damaged tires instead of repairing them.
remember , you only have 2.
a blowout on your car can be frightening, a blowout on your scoot can be deadly.
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Post by dollartwentyfive on Dec 16, 2015 16:57:10 GMT -5
another good thing to be aware of was brought up in post 8 by ricardo.
and that is the maneuverability of your bike.
bikers can sometimes avoid accidents that cagers can't.
also, wear your gear, preferably leather.
do you really think bikers wear leather to look tough?
road rash isn't a joke, nor is it funny.
the same can be said of boots.
there is nothing quite like getting your foot trapped under your scoot and breaking your ankle.
letting your scoot down from the center stand makes this all too real.
i guess you could just roll it off and let the stand slam a hole in the pan, instead of easing it up with your foot.
another area of safety concerns pushing your bike.
make sure it's not running.
i tries that once, didn't work to well.
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Post by ricardoguitars on Dec 16, 2015 17:57:09 GMT -5
another good thing to be aware of was brought up in post 8 by ricardo. and that is the maneuverability of your bike. bikers can sometimes avoid accidents that cagers can't. also, wear your gear, preferably leather. do you really think bikers wear leather to look tough? road rash isn't a joke, nor is it funny. the same can be said of boots. there is nothing quite like getting your foot trapped under your scoot and breaking your ankle. letting your scoot down from the center stand makes this all too real. i guess you could just roll it off and let the stand slam a hole in the pan, instead of easing it up with your foot. another area of safety concerns pushing your bike. make sure it's not running. i tries that once, didn't work to well. Totally agree; leather, kevlar, and hard plastic are the only things present on riding gear that keeps you away from road rash, soft cloth, denim and jeans disintegrate the second it touches the pavement, I'm already down on two nice Levis jeans, lol. I tell people: "Think of road rash as if you applied a belt sanding machine with 80 grit straight to your skin, you wouldn't do that, do you? Then why are you riding without gear? You don't choose to fall off the bike, it just happens, it is part of riding a motorcycle".
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Post by dollartwentyfive on Dec 16, 2015 19:02:05 GMT -5
TBH, i can see hopping on your 50cc in shorts, sandels, and a t-shirt, and going to the store.
this is one of the reasons i posted this thread here instead of the 250cc section.
but, even a spill at 30MPH can leave some nasty rash.
you don't even have to be going faster than walking speed to get horribly maimed, even by a 50cc.
a friend of mine was riding his 50cc on a dirt road after it rained.
he wasn't going more than about 5MPH because it was so slick.
locked up his front wheel and down he went.
his scoot fell on his left leg.
the tab on the center stand almost cut his leg off.
man, that was some nasty stuff, and i'll never forget it.
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Post by dollartwentyfive on Dec 16, 2015 19:11:10 GMT -5
another area of safety i want to mention.
drinking and driving.
DON"T EVEN THINK ABOUT IT ! !
yeah, i'm sure most of us has gotten behind the wheel after one, two, or three beers.
me included.
and i'm sure that most of us has heard "one beer can affect you".
i hear that kind of thing and say "baloney".
the real surprise is, it can.
i drank a beer at my brother in laws house then hopped on my 250 to go home.
i usually just rip those roads up right down the middle.
not this day.
here i am crawling along at 30 or so.
i was totally amazed how much that one beer affected me.
so please, don't drink and drive.
it affects your balance more than you realize.
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