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Post by oldchopperguy on Aug 16, 2015 14:38:35 GMT -5
My free two cents. On the open speed mountain roads you're describing, a "rounded up" 150 (or smaller) isn't going to be enough to keep from being a road hazard. You're going to have traffic stacked up behind you. The more displacement you are comfortable with, the better. Do seat test several models. The bigger chassis scoots tend to be wider so it's harder to straddle them and still get your feet down. I come from the short end of the family too so seat height is always an issue. If you can afford fuel injection, do it. No choke and no carburetor maintenance will make your life a lot easier. Plus those electronics will get the most power and fuel efficiency out of a given size engine. Gravel roads? Not a problem. Just relax on the grips a little and let the wheels track. Very gentle steering inputs. Also be really cautious with that front brake until you get to the blacktop.
A valuable two cents, pmatulew! Have a bone!
As the old adage goes: There is no replacement for displacement...
Within reason, go with the largest engine you can afford unless the scooter feels simply too intimidating to you. Even if it feels a tad heavy, don't discount it without giving it a try... I learned to ride a motorcycle when I was a little nipper of 12... It was a sunny spring day in 1958... My neighbor had a 1950 Harley "full-dress" "74" replete with suicide foot-clutch and hand-gear-shift. 1,000 pounds of Milwaukee iron, leather and fringe. He told me if I could kick-start it, I could ride it.
"Nuff said" Lemme on board an' point me toward the highway!!! 
Here's one that's mighty close to the original I learned on... Talk about "eye-candy" for a 1950's 12-year-old! And what a TRUSTING neighbor... LOL! That kid-friendly old buzzard was actually a charter-member of the original "Booze-Fighters" cycle club. WOW... Talk about outlaw-biker HISTORY!
Well, that hardtail BEAST scared the bejeebers out of me, but I kicked her over, she cackled to life, and with ALL my 12-year-old arm-strength maxed-out, I finally lifted her off the jiffy-stand. I threw out that nasty foot-clutch, pulled that wonky shift-lever into first and I was off. After wobbling for 20 feet, I learned the heavier a bike is, the easier it is to balance at low speed! (Just do NOT drop it... LOL!)... unless you have arms like Popeye to pick it back up...
Thinking back to that GLORIOUS day 57 years ago, I can still remember the horse n' buggy controls on that archaic Hog... Foot-clutch, hand-shift, notchy, no-return worm-drive throttle twist grip on the right, same sticky, miserable twist-grip on the left for spark-advance and manual choke on the carb. All of which had to be properly "manipulated" simultaneously to bring the old Hog to life while kicking her over.
What an introduction to "things 2-wheeled"... LOL! But after a few blocks of "almost under control" riding, I found the nearest 2-lane highway, twisted her ear and enjoyed a heavenly hour at highway speed... I was a little disappointed that she wouldn't do better than  on the speedo, but she'd easily keep up with the 65 mph traffic, and I was HOOKED!!! Big time! Oh, on that 2-lane, I also learned about that half-ton scoot's early Harley manual drum-brakes... not really adequate on anything beyond a Schwinn bicycle... HeHeHe... Fred Flintstone, feet don't fail me now!
And THAT is how the old chopper guy learned to ride.
That WAS a different time from today, long forgotten by modern folks. Nowadays, it just wouldn't happen. No license, no insurance... No common sense... Helmets were for football players. And a 12-year-old driving 4-years before being old enough for a license was not all THAT unheard of, and not totally frowned on by the local cops. (My Dad had me driving my little nosepicker friends home in the family Chevy since I was 10...)
Anyway, all that reminiscing was fun, and still reminds me that it's always good to have enough bike to do the job... Whether it's a dated, carbureted "cheater 200" or a high, HIGH-TECH fuel-injected "real" 200... or best of all, a high-tech fuel-injected 300 or bigger.
It's up to you. Ya' pays yo' money and takes yo' choice.
But whatever ride you choose, scooter OR motorcycle, I'm betting you'll like it... a WHOLE lot! 
Ride safe,
Leo in Texas
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Post by raven85 on Aug 16, 2015 17:45:29 GMT -5
Great advice all the way around guys and I appreciate it. Luckily I have a couple months before I pull the trigger to buy whatever I do, although I have seen some screaming deals lately making me wish I had the cash now. (2009 Piaggio MP3 250 for under 4k? Three wheels, nice size motor, good looking scoot...) After visiting two shops (One Honda, One Suzuki/Kawasaki/Yamaha) the other day and throwing my leg over a few bikes I learned a few things.
1.) In pants that fit properly (damn weight gain) I can still throw my leg over a street bike/cruiser fairly easily, although doing it in a dealership I was kinda hesitant just because I didn't want to screw up a brand new bike.
2.) I REALLY miss being on a street bike.... Although I can only really fit on a CBR300F or Ninja 300 and even those will need a lowering link to drop an inch or inch and a half so I can balance properly at stops..... Not sure how much that will cost or if it would be feasible ATM.
3.) The Honda Shadow cruisers (750+) are actually really comfortable, but then again short legs come into play and I will have to relocate all foot controls and probably swap bars/risers to pull back so I can sit upright comfortably.... Again cost wise this might suck.
4.) New is pretty much out of the question for nearly anything, so Craigslist and dealership scouring it is... Found a couple nice 750 cruisers at the Honda dealership in my price range but again with the relocating of the controls I don't know if I could afford it (but then again I could just negotiate it into the price of the bike with the dealership I bet.....)
5.) I really shouldn't have sold the bike I was rebuilding... (1971 Harley Sportster, custom Paughco frame, chopped and raked 30 degrees with all original parts from the 70's...... King and Queen seat included.... so nice) but life happens and I did what I had to do at the time.
I appreciate everyone's input on this, and I am going to keep up on here because this page is a wealth of knowledge and actually you guys have been the friendliest group I have ran across yet!
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Post by oldchopperguy on Aug 17, 2015 0:25:01 GMT -5
Sounds like the custom you had to sell would have been ideal... Indeed, there's nothing like a chopped V-Twin for short legs to plant tootsies on the tarmac! And, THIS one isn't even a Harley!
I think you could set up a Honda Rebel, or any of many small/mid-sized motorcycles in a budget bobber style and have a sweet custom in your price range! Just chop the rear springs, or, replace them with struts to lower the rear end to suit you, then add a sprung solo seat for comfort. Looks great too!
Here are a couple of SWEET clean, simple Rebel 250 low customs, one using struts and one using shorty coil-over springs... ENJOY!
![]() s20.postimg.org/uze75m9t9/Rebel_bobber_2.jpg"
Something to think about anyway...
Ride safe,
Leo
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Post by raven85 on Aug 17, 2015 10:12:03 GMT -5
oldchopperguy You are just aching to get me in trouble with the wife aren't ya?  those bobbers look beautiful. Actually the Rebel 250 was a big thought of mine, my only worry would be top speed and fuel tank size. I am not wanting to make huge trips with it (although after I work on it some, I might make my way back to Oregon to visit family with it, so would be nice to have some distance to the tank) everything I see says they can top out at about 75 mph so theoretically 55-65 mph cruising shouldn't be too hard on it I would think? There are some killer deals on Rebels in my area (seen some fairly new, 04-09's with low mileage going for between 1.5 and 3k) and I don't think replacement engine/trans for them are expensive (as rebuilding a stock one would probably cost the same unless some work was done to it.) Does anyone have info on reliability on these? I know they are Honda's and Honda makes a damn bulletproof motor but are we talking 20k before a replacement/rebuild is needed or taken good care of (which I do my best to do) can more be pulled out of it? And for a Honda motor there are shockingly little aftermarket performance parts for it, any way to get a little more juice out of it without affecting reliability? (Other than obvious air filter/pipes/retune). I have sat on a few and they are the perfect size for me so that might actually be the way to go for me for now. Lightly used Honda rebel, toss the rest of my budget into a few aftermarket stuff (or a bobber kit, cause those are damn beautiful) and maintenance stuff..... My mind is racing now.... Time to go look at bobber kits for the Rebel I think.....
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Post by raven85 on Aug 17, 2015 10:31:52 GMT -5
Ok and just as a quick side note. Yes I know, modifying the 250cc engine won't get me much more power as it only pushes out a tiny bit of HP to begin with (I have seen many threads in my research about modding the 250 with people saying just buy another bike it would be cheaper). If I can find one, I intend on buying a Harley Sportster (as my heart has always been with Harleys, even when I rode crotch rockets) if I can find a decent mileage 883 or 1200 in my area in my budget I intend on hopping on it like a feral dog on a steak. But lets be honest, hope for the best prepare for the worst (In this case, Hope for a great, non budget breaking Harley, prepare for getting a reliable and def. in budget Honda Rebel haha) If I get either, the Rebel will end up modified for best around town running and short hops with the ability to take longer jaunts. If I get the Sportster it will be modified when I can with a larger tank and setup more for solo touring as I intend on getting my wife riding and building her a VW trike so she can take the dog with us on rides easier, I just don't want to relegate myself to three wheels quite yet (I am damaged, not fully broken..... yet ) |
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Post by oldchopperguy on Aug 17, 2015 13:02:40 GMT -5
Ok and just as a quick side note. Yes I know, modifying the 250cc engine won't get me much more power as it only pushes out a tiny bit of HP to begin with (I have seen many threads in my research about modding the 250 with people saying just buy another bike it would be cheaper). If I can find one, I intend on buying a Harley Sportster (as my heart has always been with Harleys, even when I rode crotch rockets) if I can find a decent mileage 883 or 1200 in my area in my budget I intend on hopping on it like a feral dog on a steak. But lets be honest, hope for the best prepare for the worst (In this case, Hope for a great, non budget breaking Harley, prepare for getting a reliable and def. in budget Honda Rebel haha) If I get either, the Rebel will end up modified for best around town running and short hops with the ability to take longer jaunts. If I get the Sportster it will be modified when I can with a larger tank and setup more for solo touring as I intend on getting my wife riding and building her a VW trike so she can take the dog with us on rides easier, I just don't want to relegate myself to three wheels quite yet (I am damaged, not fully broken..... yet )
Raven85,
I have no personal experience with the Rebel 250, but riders seem to swear by them. Honda REALLY tried to make it look like a small Harley Sportster... But stock, it just misses the mark a little. (I don't know WHY Honda didn't use a V-twin to accent the look). Slightly customized however, it really DOES look terrific, even with the parallel-twin. It looks like the customs in the pix primarily have simply had the rear suspension dropped (or removed) then a bigger rear wheel/tire/fender added, along with a solo-seat. Lights, bars, exhaust, paint and such are the icing on the cake. Really fairly simple, affordable work to obtain such a slick bobber.
Now a similar bike I do have experience with is the sixties Honda 305cc Super Hawk. While in the Army, my big Harley sat idle and I bought a Super Hawk which I rode the wheels off of. I'd think the modern 250 Reb would be a pretty close comparison with the more dated old 305.
My old 305 is probably the ONLY bike I ever owned, which I could find NO complaints about whatsoever... Amazing! Totally trouble-free, well-mannered, great gas mileage and plenty of performance, at least in 1968... My Hawk had good acceleration and would top out around mph. It would cruise 75 all day long. I would expect the modern Reb 250 to have similar performance, but can't confirm that. Modern or old, an extra 50cc does seem to make a difference.
In contrast, my current Kymco 250 tops out around 80mph, and will cruise 65 comfortably. That SHOULD be plenty fast enough, but it's "marginal" around here. Freeway traffic regularly runs between 75 and 90mph. You shouldn't have to run a steady  + just to be safe from getting rear-ended, but that's life in the Dallas/Fort Worth area. I do run the freeways often, but it's always near wide-open throttle, with one eye on the mirrors, all the time.
If you find an affordable Sportster, that might be ideal. If not, the Rebel might be fine, and within budget. I wouldn't recommend modding the 250 for more power... Honda gets about as much power per cc as is practical. Further modding will likely produce only a small increase, and compromise that legendary Honda reliability. Better to live with a realistic cruise of 65-70 like with my old Kymco... LOL!
One thing about bikes... Look long enough and you'll surely find the right one!
Ride safe!
Leo
PS: Not wanting to get you in Dutch with the missus... That chopper just shows the ah, well, "practicality" of short legs on a bike... HeHeHe!
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Post by raven85 on Aug 17, 2015 13:07:29 GMT -5
Oldchopperguy,
Oh dont worry the trouble with the missus would be more from wanting to buy a bike or modify one out of my budget than anything. And yeah there is a couple places that have decent bikes. One place I was looking at has the 100th anniversary 883 Sportster for 3,495. Betting if they still had it I could offer them 3k OTD and get it so will ultimately come down to what I can find at the time I have the cash. If i manage to get the sportster the first mod will be swapping a 4.5 gal tank from the 1200 custom onto it for more distance per tank.... Then a list of mods I saved from my previous sportster build lol.
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Post by pmatulew on Aug 17, 2015 17:38:09 GMT -5
I thought the point was that you didn't want to clutch anymore? No matter. Once it's in your blood there's no going back.
Long time Honda rider.
Honda motors (in whatever application) are nearly bullet proof so long as they are maintained properly. I wouldn't be worried about a Rebel motor at whatever mileage as long as the rest of the machine looked like it had been taken care of properly.
My wife had a mid '80's Rebel a few years back. Parallel twin is the same engine as the Twinstar and the 250 Nighthawk. Cheaper and easier to pluck an existing product out of the parts bin rather than engineer something new. Adequate power to keep up with normal car traffic but nothing crazy. I rode it a few times and it's geared short and has a governor set at 75mph. So, even wide open on the flats, that's all you're going to get. It was meant as an entry level bike, so mother Honda is just being nanny-ish. No particular quirks that I remember except that air cooled twins can be fussy to cold start. (Ours had a carburetor and choke).
If the cruiser style is your thing you could also take a look at the smaller Yamaha Virago's. I had a 700 for a while. They also make a 250 and a 500 class that look the same and have a chromy v-twin. They've got that nice blub blub sound. The 500 and 700 also come with a shaft drive. That's a double plus in the low maintenance category.
For me the laid back riding position was fine for putt putting around town, but for longer rides it just wasn't working. Too much wind load on the chest, arms and shoulders. Too much butt flattening in one position in that bucket seat. Just no good once we got out towards the 3 hour mark. My thinking is that fuel range in a peanut tank may not be that big of an issue because you'll be stopping to stretch achy bones anyway. Also the big wheel on the front doesn't carry much load and it's a bit skittish on gravel roads.
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Post by pmatulew on Aug 17, 2015 17:50:00 GMT -5
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Post by raven85 on Aug 17, 2015 18:17:22 GMT -5
Yeah you are right pmatulew one of my biggest concerns was the clutch with my hands having issues the way they are, the biggest issue being carpal tunnel and the fact that my hands freeze open or shut at times but most of the issues I have been having are typically solved by going to the chiropractor for my back issues (readjustment causes things to shift back into place, including a nerve that gets pinched and causes tingling and numbness in my hands) and the carpal tunnel is bad but doesn't seem to be what is causing the locking of my hands. The locking seems to come about due to the pinched nerve (had carpal tunnel for a bit before a car accident started the locking up, process of elimination plus the fact that having my back adjusted correctly solves the issue leads me to believe that most of it is there). I have noticed that when my back is properly adjusted the issue doesn't come up so fairly certain I should be ok there. And you are right, I have been riding bigger bikes and ATV's my whole life so I am still kinda stuck on them and really have been wanting something bigger. The Scooter idea came about due to cost wise and a possible alternative to getting a bigger bike..... But lets be honest, those of us that ride have a bug we can't get rid of... And that is just fine with me |
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Post by cyborg on Aug 17, 2015 19:48:11 GMT -5
If you're worried about the freeway speed thing,,it's either a gently used kymco,,,sym ,,,or the rebel,,,a very nice bike,,,I'd have one in a second
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Post by pmatulew on Aug 17, 2015 19:52:23 GMT -5
Small displacement motorcycles and step-throughs have their place, but you have to be honest with yourself about their capabilities. I mean, sure, you can row a small boat across the ocean if you want, but it may not be the most comfortable experience. Small motos are great for short range trips, and commuting, but not so much for long distance travel. You may just have to make space in the garage for two machines. One for getting to work in town, and one for play on your days off.  |
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Post by rockynv on Aug 18, 2015 4:09:53 GMT -5
If you are considering used both the Piaggio BV250 and BV500 will fit in your price range and can be bargained on since people are trading them in on the new BV350.
Especially on a used bike at a dealer asking is not getting so there is usually at least some moderate wiggle room and most times much more than you would imagine. I almost dropped money on a very low mileage BV500 that they were asking $1,900 for at the local Vespa/Piaggio dealer. As the new models start flooding in they will be more desperate to move out new and used inventory so don't be afraid to make a low bid offer. The worst they can do is say no.
By the way the prices you are quoting for the 150's is more than the $2,999 I paid new for my Aprilia Sport City 250 when it was on factory incentive.
Too bad Piaggio won't allow Aprilia to bring any of its scooters over 50 cc into the US anymore as they were one of the best values in a 250 or 500 cc bike especially during their annual factory incentive sales.
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Post by Jarlaxle on Aug 18, 2015 6:18:34 GMT -5
Its the high end of your budget, but check out a used Honda Silverwing or 2007+ Suzuki Burgman.
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Post by raven85 on Aug 18, 2015 9:21:40 GMT -5
Jarlaxle I like the idea of the Suzuki Burgman and the Silverwing but haven't been able to find any in my area for sale in my price range yet. Going to take the cheap road and wait til around or just after Christmas when everyone is trying to sell old stuff to afford the new stuff..... Sounds kinda mean but it works (best time to buy a motorcycle/atv/boat is Winter in my experience). rockynv The Piaggio's are beautiful bikes, but I fall into the same issue as the Silverwing and Burgman but they are going on the short list of bikes to look for when winter comes along. pmatulew As for one for work one for play right now I am kinda stuck with the ability to get one.... But I fully intend on getting a Honda Ruckus to mod once things level out and I am back to work after school (cause it would be ton's of fun bombing around San Francisco on a stretched 150cc Ruckus I do believe ) So as an update my list is as follows (in no particular order, it comes down to price and condition when I find one on the list) 1.) Used Suzuki Bergman 400 2.) Used Piaggio 250-500 3.) Used Honda Rebel 4.) Used Harley Sportster (yes I am still a Harley fan at heart) 5.) Used Honda Silverwing (2007+ if possible) 6.) Used VStar 250 7.) Used 250cc+ Cruiser Harley Lookalike (Honda/Yamaha/Kawasaki/Suzuki) I want to thank everyone for their help, you guys have actually opened up my eyes to a lot of good ideas and pointed me in a few awesome directions..... I intend on staying on here regardless of what I get cause there is too much good information on here!
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on the speedo, but she'd easily keep up with the 65 mph traffic, and I was HOOKED!!! Big time! Oh, on that 2-lane, I also learned about that half-ton scoot's early Harley manual drum-brakes... not really adequate on anything beyond a Schwinn bicycle... HeHeHe... Fred Flintstone, feet don't fail me now!
+ just to be safe from getting rear-ended, but that's life in the Dallas/Fort Worth area. I do run the freeways often, but it's always near wide-open throttle, with one eye on the mirrors, all the time.
