|
|
FFWWAOOOMP!
by: pistonguy - Jun 14, 2015 7:57:16 GMT -5
Post by pistonguy on Jun 14, 2015 7:57:16 GMT -5
What about if I do not remove the circlips? Then I could just put the new rings on the piston and not worry about the clips right? I have a small cylinder hone, used it once before. I think the rods may have been torqued too many times, they seem longer, like by a few hairs, than on my other 139qmb engines. How do I go about removing them? Can I use the rods out of another engine? I'm really trying to work with what I have without buying anything else. Yes, you can just Not Remove the clips and just install the new rings. A light hone, don't go all crazy making it look pretty. Use some type of light oil even WD-40 as a Honing Fluid on the Bore/Hone. The angle of cross hatch is very important, Were looking for bouts a 45 Degree Angle, Not to Flat and not to Steep, do a search of Images of this. Drill on SLOW and a fairly Rapid up and down will get you desired Cross Hatch Angle. And for Final assembly Wash the Bore with Hot Soap and Water, then blow with Air hose, it will be so clean the White Metal will start to rust instantly so hit it with WD-40, WD will also Disperse any Water. This is the Only way to have a true Clean Cylinder. |
|
|
|
Post by lain on Jun 14, 2015 8:07:50 GMT -5
I used gear oil for honing and seafoam after cleaning it with soap and water to remove any water/soap from the crosshatches last time, you think that's good? Or should I use light oil because it's a hot config?
|
|
|
|
Post by cyborg on Jun 14, 2015 9:17:09 GMT -5
A Man in the Know! Up Early, Must be watching Moto GP from Spain like me  Marques goes down, I think he's lost the mental edge and patience, pushing to hard, third crash so far. Lorenzo rode a nearly flawless race. The only thing i know is i had a FUKIN CLIP come out and scored the sheehite out of the cylinder wall and had to rebuild the brand new rebuilt engine  ,,,,,SO HAPPY!!!!!,,,it's buttons for me thank you very much |
|
|
|
FFWWAOOOMP!
by: pistonguy - Jun 14, 2015 10:18:13 GMT -5
Post by pistonguy on Jun 14, 2015 10:18:13 GMT -5
I used gear oil for honing and seafoam after cleaning it with soap and water to remove any water/soap from the crosshatches last time, you think that's good? Or should I use light oil because it's a hot config? Honing Oil is typically thin/light. If you've already done it leave it alone. I don't have any experience using Sea Foam after the Hot Soapy Water Clean. I use a Water Dispersant Like WD or several other types will do the same job. then I wipe with whatever I'm assy with. Lightly. I could go into a totally Dry Cylinder/Piston assy Build but I'm sure things would get Heated and Confused. |
|
|
|
Post by cyborg on Jun 14, 2015 10:34:37 GMT -5
I've heard of dry assembly and startup in F1 auto engines,,,sounded like crazy talk to me
|
|
|
|
Post by lain on Jun 14, 2015 11:33:48 GMT -5
Holysh&7 my exhaust valve is completely covered in a thick caking of something very white. The intake looks fine.
|
|
|
|
Post by pistonguy on Jun 14, 2015 12:06:11 GMT -5
Holysh&7 my exhaust valve is completely covered in a thick caking of something very white. The intake looks fine. Most Likely Fuel and Or Oil Additive Deposits. Common, Don't be to concerned. |
|
|
|
FFWWAOOOMP!
by: rcq92130 - Jun 14, 2015 13:01:43 GMT -5
Post by rcq92130 on Jun 14, 2015 13:01:43 GMT -5
What about if I do not remove the circlips? Then I could just put the new rings on the piston and not worry about the clips right? I have a small cylinder hone, used it once before. I think the rods may have been torqued too many times, they seem longer, like by a few hairs, than on my other 139qmb engines. How do I go about removing them? Can I use the rods out of another engine? I'm really trying to work with what I have without buying anything else. You cannot replace the paper gasket w/o removing the jug. BTW - you might remember I've been troubled by a leak at that same spot because of a paper gasket that slipped out. Torque was not low, so that's not the cause. Many advise AGAINST using any gasket sealant b/c of the risk of clogging the oil passage .... this past time I went w/o sealant and ended up with a slipped-out gasket. May not be cause and effect, but I'm suspicious and will NOT again try no sealant. If you do the same, just make sure you only "wet" the gasket (both sides), not leave enough sealant that once the assembly is torqued it will squeeze out into places where seamant is not wanted. |
|
|
|
FFWWAOOOMP!
by: pistonguy - Jun 14, 2015 13:26:45 GMT -5
Post by pistonguy on Jun 14, 2015 13:26:45 GMT -5
What about if I do not remove the circlips? Then I could just put the new rings on the piston and not worry about the clips right? I have a small cylinder hone, used it once before. I think the rods may have been torqued too many times, they seem longer, like by a few hairs, than on my other 139qmb engines. How do I go about removing them? Can I use the rods out of another engine? I'm really trying to work with what I have without buying anything else. You cannot replace the paper gasket w/o removing the jug. BTW - you might remember I've been troubled by a leak at that same spot because of a paper gasket that slipped out. Torque was not low, so that's not the cause. Many advise AGAINST using any gasket sealant b/c of the risk of clogging the oil passage .... this past time I went w/o sealant and ended up with a slipped-out gasket. May not be cause and effect, but I'm suspicious and will NOT again try no sealant. If you do the same, just make sure you only "wet" the gasket (both sides), not leave enough sealant that once the assembly is torqued it will squeeze out into places where seamant is not wanted. He mentioned replacing the Rings so he has to remove the cylinder. With some of these Leakage issues I'm wondering if the Base and Deck are Square/True to the Bore or base of the Case its mounted to. Back Racing Yam KT-100's we Blue printed before the Mod, Was amazed how much off the Base of the Engine, Crank Bores, Base and Deck of the Cylinder etc. were off. Then you run into the Bore a Perfect Circle off Center. Worked on a 600 Sport bike that was just a slug, ripped my hair out, The Cam Bores were not True causing a bind. |
|
|
|
Post by lain on Jun 14, 2015 13:27:16 GMT -5
What about if I do not remove the circlips? Then I could just put the new rings on the piston and not worry about the clips right? I have a small cylinder hone, used it once before. I think the rods may have been torqued too many times, they seem longer, like by a few hairs, than on my other 139qmb engines. How do I go about removing them? Can I use the rods out of another engine? I'm really trying to work with what I have without buying anything else. You cannot replace the paper gasket w/o removing the jug. BTW - you might remember I've been troubled by a leak at that same spot because of a paper gasket that slipped out. Torque was not low, so that's not the cause. Many advise AGAINST using any gasket sealant b/c of the risk of clogging the oil passage .... this past time I went w/o sealant and ended up with a slipped-out gasket. May not be cause and effect, but I'm suspicious and will NOT again try no sealant. If you do the same, just make sure you only "wet" the gasket (both sides), not leave enough sealant that once the assembly is torqued it will squeeze out into places where seamant is not wanted. Yeah I was thinking of putting sealant on it this time because last time I didn't and this happened. I'm thinking of just "wetting" the paper with the sealant except for around the oil passage, instead I will just wet the outtermost edges of the gasket around the oil passage, but not the edges where the oil travels, the edges close to the outside of the engine. |
|
|
|
FFWWAOOOMP!
by: pistonguy - Jun 14, 2015 14:31:58 GMT -5
Post by pistonguy on Jun 14, 2015 14:31:58 GMT -5
I've heard of dry assembly and startup in F1 auto engines,,,sounded like crazy talk to me Dunno bout the F-1 boys but. Ive had several notable S/X-M/X builders move to this operation of Dry assy. and start up. First we start with High End Piston and Ring assmblys. Carefully inspected. The Cylinder and piston assy. Completely Rubbing Alcohol dry. With Just Piston installed and just the Cylinder Only, The Engine is Hand turned over 6-12 times. Excuse my verbiage may not be exacting. This Creates a Burnishing effect. This Seats the Rings and we are good to go Racing with No Break in. This is on Plated cylinders but has worked equally as well with Iron Bores. Were working with a Splash system and at start up you have more than adequate lubrication. They've done some pretty good comparative testing ,longevity ,leak down etc with no ill effect. Im old school and kinda stuck in my ways so I do what I do. Back in the day performing a SBC build we literally used a Coffee can filled with Oil to dip the entire piston assy in. The Engine oil Pump was also Primed before start up. Now Im very concise about too much is not better as we can glaze that cylinder by over doing it. Think a Modern Two Smoker is using Synth, at 50:0-1 Ratios, a very very small amount of oil is needed to lube the top end. I would not recommend the above procedure unless you are working with Very High end components and Careful Visual and Measurements are taken. |
|
|
|
FFWWAOOOMP!
by: rcq92130 - Jun 14, 2015 14:33:08 GMT -5
Post by rcq92130 on Jun 14, 2015 14:33:08 GMT -5
You cannot replace the paper gasket w/o removing the jug. BTW - you might remember I've been troubled by a leak at that same spot because of a paper gasket that slipped out. Torque was not low, so that's not the cause. Many advise AGAINST using any gasket sealant b/c of the risk of clogging the oil passage .... this past time I went w/o sealant and ended up with a slipped-out gasket. May not be cause and effect, but I'm suspicious and will NOT again try no sealant. If you do the same, just make sure you only "wet" the gasket (both sides), not leave enough sealant that once the assembly is torqued it will squeeze out into places where seamant is not wanted. Yeah I was thinking of putting sealant on it this time because last time I didn't and this happened. I'm thinking of just "wetting" the paper with the sealant except for around the oil passage, instead I will just wet the outtermost edges of the gasket around the oil passage, but not the edges where the oil travels, the edges close to the outside of the engine. Can't remember which of the thousands of engines you have been playing with, but if THIS one is one that had significant blow-by .... and you didn't have an adequate crankcase vent ..... then it's possible that pressure built up high enough in the CC to gradually push the gasket out. One would think the torque of the head bolts would be enough, but remember the torque on these mouse fart engines is like 1 pinky ounce. |
|
|
|
FFWWAOOOMP!
by: pistonguy - Jun 14, 2015 14:48:05 GMT -5
Post by pistonguy on Jun 14, 2015 14:48:05 GMT -5
Good Point!
|
|
|
|
Post by lain on Jun 14, 2015 15:03:48 GMT -5
Yeah I was thinking of putting sealant on it this time because last time I didn't and this happened. I'm thinking of just "wetting" the paper with the sealant except for around the oil passage, instead I will just wet the outtermost edges of the gasket around the oil passage, but not the edges where the oil travels, the edges close to the outside of the engine. Can't remember which of the thousands of engines you have been playing with, but if THIS one is one that had significant blow-by .... and you didn't have an adequate crankcase vent ..... then it's possible that pressure built up high enough in the CC to gradually push the gasket out. One would think the torque of the head bolts would be enough, but remember the torque on these mouse fart engines is like 1 pinky ounce. This is that old blowby engine, my first engine, I' going back this time trying to fix things and get it so I don't have to open it up again. This engine does not have a crankcase vent, it has a valve cover vent, which I assume are different. |
|
|
|
FFWWAOOOMP!
by: rcq92130 - Jun 14, 2015 15:10:43 GMT -5
Post by rcq92130 on Jun 14, 2015 15:10:43 GMT -5
Can't remember which of the thousands of engines you have been playing with, but if THIS one is one that had significant blow-by .... and you didn't have an adequate crankcase vent ..... then it's possible that pressure built up high enough in the CC to gradually push the gasket out. One would think the torque of the head bolts would be enough, but remember the torque on these mouse fart engines is like 1 pinky ounce. This is that old blowby engine, my first engine, I' going back this time trying to fix things and get it so I don't have to open it up again. This engine does not have a crankcase vent, it has a valve cover vent, which I assume are different. Same thing. The valve cover is open into the bowels of the crankcase via the chain galley. Just make sure the vent actually vents and isn't sealed off. |
|
