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Post by oldchopperguy on May 7, 2015 14:07:45 GMT -5
Well boyz and gurlz... Since I've now been riding "things 2-wheeled" for over a half-century (big bikes mostly until my last 8 years on scooters) I've puzzled over just WHY I'm as happy riding a scooter as I was riding a Harley. Old-age senility? Too easy to please? Just forgot what clutch n' gears 250 hp, window-breaking exhaust and 120 mph cruise was like? The other day, running errands on "Minnie Mouse" I finally figured it out. It's the TWIST N' GO experience!
Yeah, SCOOTERS are affordable, easy to work on, cheap to ride and nimble in tight spots... but it's that CVT tranny that is the cherry on top of the sundae!
Whether you cut your teeth on "suicide" foot-clutch Harleys with hand-shifters, vintage Brit vertical twins, Japanese crotch-rockets... or never rode ANYTHING before your first scooter... There's just something enjoyable about opening the throttle and going from stop, to wide-open with nothing needed from the rider but to hang on and enjoy the ride.
The allure of the "twist n' go" phenomenon is hard to put into words. I suppose that's why few riders even try. But it's SO universal that the enjoyment is the same whether you're coaxing a 50 cc up to speed in a 30 mph zone, or unleashing a 700 cc tourer to  + down the entrance ramp and into the left lane toward the coast a thousand miles away.
The closest driving experience I can compare it to is a power-boat. Whether moving a little 10 hp fishing boat to the next cove, or teasing the throttle levers open on a trio of 300 hp outboards... or a pair of 4,000 hp supercharged jet-drive V8's... That great, smooth, seamless acceleration from startup to however fast is "comfortable" on a given scoot is as "addictive" in its own way as banging gears on a hot set of wheels.
Having all the controls on the bars right at your fingertips is just plain FUN. You can plant both feet at a stop if you like. And you can relax and enjoy the ride in a way not possible with bikes requiring both hands to clutch and brake, and both feet to shift and brake. While there's amazing enjoyment in the "frantic" and "intimidating" aspect of big bikes, there's equal enjoyment in that incredibly-simple "open to go, squeeze to stop" personality of the modern scooter. It's TOTALLY different from motorcycles, yet equally appealing to cyclists AND scooter-jockeys alike.
I first noticed it with my original 150. There was amazing satisfaction entering traffic and feeling the little scoot go from stopped, to 45 or 50 mph with little change in rpm. The other day, as I eased "Minnie Mouse" onto the freeway I enjoyed the same phenomenon as I rolled the throttle on and smoothly went from 35 on the access road to 70 entering traffic. No fuss, no muss, just that smooth, steady acceleration with nothing but a twist of the mouse's ear.
These scooters are a lot of things besides handy transportation; affordable, nimble, easy-to-ride... but doggone... they are just plain FUN!
Just my observations from decades on big bikes, and now, some years on scooters...
Ride safe, and enjoy that ride!
Leo in Texas
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Post by JerryScript on May 7, 2015 16:50:41 GMT -5
I agree wholeheartedly! Over the past few months, many of my friends have asked why I didn't just get a motorcycle instead of my 150cc scooter. I try to explain to them the advantages of a scooter, but you can see in their eyes that they just don't get it.
I started out 35 years ago on mini bikes, some with two speed centrifugal clutches, some with enduro setups. Rode halfway across the country on my 550 in my early twenties, and have ridden everything I had the opportunity to try from pit bikes to fully dressed touring bikes. If I had known way back then what I know now about the advantages of scooters, and the pleasure of a CVT, I would have purchased a scooter decades ago!
And now that my nephews are riding, I have a bit more peace of mind knowing the simpler operation of a CVT makes it safer for an inexperienced rider in unfamiliar situations. Much easier to just let go of the throttle and apply the brakes in a dangerous situation than it is to think about downshifting and having to keep your feet on brake and gear shifter when unstable.
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Post by ricardoguitars on May 10, 2015 20:20:35 GMT -5
After driving 4x4s for years I decided to try a cheap mean of transportation for commuting, I've never driven a geared motorcycle, I started my journey on 2 wheels with my scooter just a year or so ago, and it became my main mean of transportation, because of its convenience and fun to drive, I think I will always have a scooter on my garage as long as I'm able to ride  I don't see the need for a manual transmission on a street motorcycle, it is more an annoyance in my opinion  Commuting on a car wasting time on traffic jams? throwing money away on fuel that gets mostly wasted with the car idling on traffic jams? NO THANKS, NEVER AGAIN!!  |
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Post by wheelbender6 on May 10, 2015 20:32:23 GMT -5
I miss shifting gears, except in afternoon rush hour traffic. The small dimensions of the scooters appeal to me. I can easily load the scooters into my truck for a ride at the beach or in some small town in the hills.
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Post by rbjones328 on May 12, 2015 14:23:23 GMT -5
oldchopperguy, you are onto something! The short time that I've been riding, and I'm finding out that this is a fun and AFFORDABLE hobby. The thing about my Chinese scooter is that it is cheap in both senses of the word, but you don't need an arm and a leg to pay for replacement parts--theyre actually pretty inexpensive. Also, it's not rocket science. Something goes wrong, and you can usually figure it out, or go on-line and get some direction. But what makes is all worth while, is the ride... It is the ride.
Peace Out,
Bob
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Post by steve on May 12, 2015 18:37:36 GMT -5
You are spot on.
Plus, for me it's the availability and affordability of parts, and upgrades to try. Once you've held your scooter's cylinder in your own 2 hands, you have a bond with it that cannot be broken.
Of course, the twist and go part is awesome. I find myself marveling at the insanity of people living paycheck to paycheck spending all that money on cars.
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Post by oldchopperguy on May 14, 2015 0:59:07 GMT -5
oldchopperguy, you are onto something! The short time that I've been riding, and I'm finding out that this is a fun and AFFORDABLE hobby. The thing about my Chinese scooter is that it is cheap in both senses of the word, but you don't need an arm and a leg to pay for replacement parts--theyre actually pretty inexpensive. Also, it's not rocket science. Something goes wrong, and you can usually figure it out, or go on-line and get some direction. But what makes is all worth while, is the ride... It is the ride. Peace Out, Bob Bob,
Absolutely! I loved my first Chinese 150. As mentioned, it WAS cheap in every sense of the word. It DID do all the typical "things Chinese" that bug us, but... Parts WERE available "everywhere" at affordable prices.
In 2007 I paid just under $700 for the old Xingyue, brand-new, delivered to my door off the internet. The things I had to learn about and fix over the first year included CDI, carb, starter, coil, fuel lines and petcock, MAJOR tweaking of the stupid air-filter setup... Valve-stems, rear brake caliper, front brake lever/master-cylinder and finally the headpipe and muffler. Pretty common... LOL!
I also added a Prodigy variator, mix of 11 and 12-gram rollers and a 2-stroke "chamber" exhaust with home-made full-diameter header. (From my 1960's go-kart racing days, I knew how great 4-strokes will run with a chamber exhaust!).
All that sounds like a lot of time and money, but honestly, once the problems were tracked down, the time was minimal and the total expense came to less than $500. That made my total expense right at $1,200 and I had a 100% reliable, great-riding scooter that was a joy around town, and would do over 60 mph wide-open. THAT is a LOT of bike for VERY FEW bucks.
You'd have to REALLY dig to find a minty used 250 for the same money.
If you can safely ride without the need for 70+ mph speeds, I believe the Chinese 150 is the way to go. The ONLY reason I traded in on a used Kymco 250 was to obtain the higher speeds needed to keep up with changing traffic. Even then, I found the 250 closest to a Chinese 150 in size, looks and feel. I'm on Social Security and every penny counts, so next to performance, affordability is my biggest concern. So far, after nearly 2 years and 2,000 miles, the old '07 Kymco Grandvista has proven to be a great buy, and reliable as the family car.
But there's STILL nothing like the affordable and oh-so-cool tweaks you can do to an aircooled GY6 right in your own back yard... LOL! Here are old pix of a couple tricks I managed which really did improve the overall performance and drivability of "Lil Bubba". Might stir some ideas for others to break out the wrenches...
The extended fan-scoop lowered my oil-temp by more than 20 degrees on 100 degree days, and the large-diameter header and 2-stroke exhaust made general carb-tuning easier, and smoothed out running from idle to top-end. I also happened to like the LOOK... and while very quiet up to half-throttle... oh, that SWEET straight-pipe HOWL at 9-grand! Even crotch-rocket-jockeys would look to see just what it was... Woo-HOO!!!
These simple mods, combined with a UNI "sock" air-filter, a good no-rev-limit CDI, iridium plug and Bando coil brought the scoot to life, as well as a carbureted, stock-displacement 150 is likely to get. And it didn't cost much, just a few bucks at a time.
Enjoy your ride!
Leo in Texas
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Post by RapidJim on May 14, 2015 8:42:17 GMT -5
Well boyz and gurlz... Since I've now been riding "things 2-wheeled" for over a half-century (big bikes mostly until my last 8 years on scooters) I've puzzled over just WHY I'm as happy riding a scooter as I was riding a Harley. Old-age senility? Too easy to please? Just forgot what clutch n' gears 250 hp, window-breaking exhaust and 120 mph cruise was like? The other day, running errands on "Minnie Mouse" I finally figured it out. It's the TWIST N' GO experience!
Yeah, SCOOTERS are affordable, easy to work on, cheap to ride and nimble in tight spots... but it's that CVT tranny that is the cherry on top of the sundae!
Whether you cut your teeth on "suicide" foot-clutch Harleys with hand-shifters, vintage Brit vertical twins, Japanese crotch-rockets... or never rode ANYTHING before your first scooter... There's just something enjoyable about opening the throttle and going from stop, to wide-open with nothing needed from the rider but to hang on and enjoy the ride.
The allure of the "twist n' go" phenomenon is hard to put into words. I suppose that's why few riders even try. But it's SO universal that the enjoyment is the same whether you're coaxing a 50 cc up to speed in a 30 mph zone, or unleashing a 700 cc tourer to + down the entrance ramp and into the left lane toward the coast a thousand miles away.
The closest driving experience I can compare it to is a power-boat. Whether moving a little 10 hp fishing boat to the next cove, or teasing the throttle levers open on a trio of 300 hp outboards... or a pair of 4,000 hp supercharged jet-drive V8's... That great, smooth, seamless acceleration from startup to however fast is "comfortable" on a given scoot is as "addictive" in its own way as banging gears on a hot set of wheels.
Having all the controls on the bars right at your fingertips is just plain FUN. You can plant both feet at a stop if you like. And you can relax and enjoy the ride in a way not possible with bikes requiring both hands to clutch and brake, and both feet to shift and brake. While there's amazing enjoyment in the "frantic" and "intimidating" aspect of big bikes, there's equal enjoyment in that incredibly-simple "open to go, squeeze to stop" personality of the modern scooter. It's TOTALLY different from motorcycles, yet equally appealing to cyclists AND scooter-jockeys alike.
I first noticed it with my original 150. There was amazing satisfaction entering traffic and feeling the little scoot go from stopped, to 45 or 50 mph with little change in rpm. The other day, as I eased "Minnie Mouse" onto the freeway I enjoyed the same phenomenon as I rolled the throttle on and smoothly went from 35 on the access road to 70 entering traffic. No fuss, no muss, just that smooth, steady acceleration with nothing but a twist of the mouse's ear.
These scooters are a lot of things besides handy transportation; affordable, nimble, easy-to-ride... but doggone... they are just plain FUN!
Just my observations from decades on big bikes, and now, some years on scooters...
Ride safe, and enjoy that ride!
Leo in Texas
I too have been riding these two wheeled things for over half a century now. Not many of us still out there. Everything you say is right on the money. Enjoy this bone. . I still have my Harleys, 86 FLTHC and a 50 EL pan, sad to say I don't ride the suicide, foot clutch, hand shift, rigid frame 50 EL much anymore due to my back, I really enjoy it but my back says NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO LOL. Think it is time to find it a home with someone who can appreciate and ride it. I do enjoy my 250 Roketa and my 300 trikes (now have 2 of them), and I agree it is the twist and go feature that make them fun, no shifting just enjoy the ride. I will admit, I ride the Harley for long rides and still love the Harley Drone and window rattling pipes HeHeHe! Take Care my Friend and Enjoy the Ride,. |
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Post by JerryScript on May 20, 2015 15:45:03 GMT -5
How do I love thee my scooter? Let me count the ways...
1- you get me to work every single day
2- you're nimble enough to keep me safe, with just enough power to roar away
3- your simple design is a pleasure to work on, no matter what some may say
4- your extra storage turns running errands into a joyride each day
5- your cheap price and mileage makes the mortgage easy to pay
6- once convinced to try riding you, even the most hardcore biker is swayed
7- twisting your throttle makes all aggravation melt away
8- you put a smile on my face every single day!
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Post by onewheeldrive on May 20, 2015 18:21:17 GMT -5
Buying my scooter is one of the best things I've done in my life. I quickly found out no one would work on these things. It forced me to work on it myself-- something we should all do, if able to, to make it worth the money. I didn't know anything about the engine.
It all started with the plug boot cap that wouldn't stay on. I actually talked the dude I bought it off of down from $800 to $750 because of it, lol. It cut out when I test drove it. I wasn't sure why and had no idea if I was getting ripped off or not-- but I worked with the guy so I had a bit of trust in him.
That's when I found the forums online where people directed me to sites that had parts, plus answered any questions I may have had. Found a good manual online, too.
After getting a new coil, I was pretty much problem free for about 3-4 months until the valves tightened up and gave me major starting issues, lol. After a few weeks of that it wore my starter out and the battery was shot. Asked the forum I was a part of and had a few replies back but the answer to the problem was... guess who... JR (Jack Ryan-- admin)! Got that all taken care of by adjusting the valves. I actually kick-started my scooter for the next year and a half.
To make a long story short, about a year later my variator side crank bearing went out. This leads up to the main reason I'm posting this. Basically I felt I was in a S.O.L. situation after realizing what I was up against. Then I said screw it, I'm taking ever last screw and bolt out to get to the crank, with help from the manual. There were no how-to guides back then for that kind of rebuild! Really the nerd in me wanted to see the insides, too. Anyway, I eventually got it back together and it ran! It felt sooo good, too! I couldn't believe that I just rebuilt it and it ran, lol!
The main point here is that the work I did actually translated into other things than the scoot. I made a thread on scootdawg about it, too. I never really fixed things before. One day at work, the phone there-- it's ringer stopped working. I took it apart and cleaned it up and it worked again. I felt more confident about working on things. I never would of thought of doing that if it wasn't for this scoot. Plus, I have waaaay more tools now. I had to buy a metal rack for the garage to put stuff on, lol.
It's just crazy, in a good way, how this scoot has impacted my life.
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Post by ricardoguitars on May 20, 2015 21:24:27 GMT -5
Buying my scooter is one of the best things I've done in my life. I quickly found out no one would work on these things. It forced me to work on it myself-- something we should all do, if able to, to make it worth the money. I didn't know anything about the engine. It all started with the plug boot cap that wouldn't stay on. I actually talked the dude I bought it off of down from $800 to $750 because of it, lol. It cut out when I test drove it. I wasn't sure why and had no idea if I was getting ripped off or not-- but I worked with the guy so I had a bit of trust in him. That's when I found the forums online where people directed me to sites that had parts, plus answered any questions I may have had. Found a good manual online, too. After getting a new coil, I was pretty much problem free for about 3-4 months until the valves tightened up and gave me major starting issues, lol. After a few weeks of that it wore my starter out and the battery was shot. Asked the forum I was a part of and had a few replies back but the answer to the problem was... guess who... JR (Jack Ryan-- admin)! Got that all taken care of by adjusting the valves. I actually kick-started my scooter for the next year and a half. To make a long story short, about a year later my variator side crank bearing went out. This leads up to the main reason I'm posting this. Basically I felt I was in a S.O.L. situation after realizing what I was up against. Then I said screw it, I'm taking ever last screw and bolt out to get to the crank, with help from the manual. There were no how-to guides back then for that kind of rebuild! Really the nerd in me wanted to see the insides, too. Anyway, I eventually got it back together and it ran! It felt sooo good, too! I couldn't believe that I just rebuilt it and it ran, lol! The main point here is that the work I did actually translated into other things than the scoot. I made a thread on scootdawg about it, too. I never really fixed things before. One day at work, the phone there-- it's ringer stopped working. I took it apart and cleaned it up and it worked again. I felt more confident about working on things. I never would of thought of doing that if it wasn't for this scoot. Plus, I have waaaay more tools now. I had to buy a metal rack for the garage to put stuff on, lol. It's just crazy, in a good way, how this scoot has impacted my life. The scoot infected you with tinkerosis, sorry but there's no cure for that  |
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Post by onewheeldrive on May 21, 2015 21:31:13 GMT -5
The scoot infected you with tinkerosis, sorry but there's no cure for that It sure did! I get bored with my scoot and suffer withdrawals, lol. I've been looking on craigslist for another scoot to toy with. |
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Post by semojd on Jun 2, 2015 15:20:26 GMT -5
As a newbie, I must tell you, this thread is what pushed me from "thinking getting a scooter" to "which scooter will I buy." I've had my Tao Tao Quantum 150 for about two weeks now. My very first scoot. I get a kick out of the surge as you go from stopped, up to speed, and the responsiveness of the twist. For me, this scoot has a solid feel that I was not expecting. The only depressing thing about it is putting it away for the night. Maybe some of this will wear off as time goes on, but somehow I doubt it! I thank all of you for this thread -- like I said above, it was the push I needed to go from thinking about a scooter to actually being on one.  Ride safe! John |
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Post by cyborg on Jun 3, 2015 8:35:22 GMT -5
I think chopperguy is on to it,,,the je ne sais quoi of riding,,,some people never get it,,,whether fear of crashing,,or being outside of a metal box to travel,,,"it's too hot,wet,cold,windy,,it'll mess up my hair",,,whatever reason to not ride,,,i kind of feel sorry for them as i wiz by on my stella ,,, they sit in traffic ,,,poor slobs
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Post by oldchopperguy on Jun 3, 2015 21:51:56 GMT -5
Well guyz and galz...
Looks like a LOT of you feel the same way about YOUR scoots! A half-century ago, I was pure Harley. Today, I'm all scooter. Today's scooters embody all the things I loved about big bikes back then, including the fun of riding! Yesterday, our 4-month-long "monsoon" let up and we had a day of sunshine, and I got old Minnie Mouse out from under the tarps, chased off the snakes and hit the freeway to run errands a town away. And, once again I discovered something new about the CVT tranny. I posted a while back on the phenomenon of there being much more to them than simply "twist n' go". Depending on engine size and total weight, one gets different performance depending on how he/she "milks" the throttle up toward WOT... Others have noticed the same thing, so it's not just me.I found on my old Chinese 150 that I could increase my top speed by easing her up to WOT, then, backing off a little and re-opening the throttle. I found the same to be true with my "new" old Kymco 250. But yesterday, I found traffic running particularly "frisky" so I did some SERIOUS "experimenting"... My speedo is 3 mph high at top end, so I can accurately tell how fast I'm going by reducing the indicated speed by 3 mph. Upon first entering the freeway, I went wide-open, and the old mouse went to 78 mph, and that's all she wrote. So I backed off about a quarter-turn on the throttle and the speed remained the same, with a slight drop in rpm. Then I slowly opened the throttle again and she went to  ... Repeat the process and she went to  ... One more repeat and she hit 92 (actual 89 mph). I tried the procedure once more, but THAT was ABSOLUTE top end. Peeping into a Dodge next to me, I could easily read HIS speedo, showing mph. This little experiment showed me that these engines often have more capability than the trannies let onto... I suspect that tweaking the CVT may provide more performance increase than many engine mods. Now my old scoot likely has rollers WELL worn, and my "milking" the throttle got them a tad farther than a simple wide-open and hope for the best technique. I am now VERY interested in finding what the best weight of SLIDERS would be ideal on my ride, and replacing the old rollers. I am finding with both my old 150, and now my 250, that attention to the CVT may make HUGE differences in overall performance. So... When I can get to it, I want to research opinions on weights, then replace the rollers with sliders. Anybody out there with a Kymco Grandvista/Grand Dink or a Bet n' Win 250 or a similar Chinese scooter who's gone with sliders, please chime in with your opinions... Ride safe, and enjoy the ride!Leo in Texas
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+ down the entrance ramp and into the left lane toward the coast a thousand miles away.
... Repeat the process and she went to 
... One more repeat and she hit 92 (actual 89 mph). I tried the procedure once more, but THAT was ABSOLUTE top end. Peeping into a Dodge next to me, I could easily read HIS speedo, showing