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Post by jerseyboy on Apr 24, 2015 19:50:48 GMT -5
So, I talked with the seller today. This is what he told me: the top end is new. the carburetor is new. He said that it runs, but it blows smoke out of the tail pipe. I have not witnessed this at idle. He believes that the rings did not seat, and that I just need a new set of rings. I'm listening to all advice on this. What do you think? If it is rings, do I still need to hone the cylinder or get a new one? what else might cause it to smoke after a rebuild? Well rings not being properly clocked and or faulty valve guide seals could cause smoke after a rebuild...I would check ring end gap also,,for a 150 it should be in the neighborhood of .010 on the top two compression rings.I got a pretty good video on my youtube channel for clocking GY6 rings. |
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Post by rdhood on Apr 24, 2015 22:14:47 GMT -5
Well rings not being properly clocked and or faulty valve guide seals could cause smoke after a rebuild...I would check ring end gap also,,for a 150 it should be in the neighborhood of .010 on the top two compression rings.I got a pretty good video on my youtube channel for clocking GY6 rings. I'll check the end gap and see what position the rings are in before I change anything. I almost hope to find something simple that's wrong! I'll also see what the cylinder wall looks like. I'll going to hone the cylinder and put on a new set of rings. Can I tell by inspection if I have a faulty valve guide seal? Today, I got the new ignition ($28 ebay) and two locks. Previously, I was missing the lock for the seat. The seller gave me an extra plastic shroud that holds the instrument panel and switches. The old one had a crack. So I assembled all of it. Re-lugged/soldered/taped both positive and negative cables on the battery as both were about half broken. |
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Post by jerseyboy on Apr 25, 2015 8:11:36 GMT -5
Well rings not being properly clocked and or faulty valve guide seals could cause smoke after a rebuild...I would check ring end gap also,,for a 150 it should be in the neighborhood of .010 on the top two compression rings.I got a pretty good video on my youtube channel for clocking GY6 rings. I'll check the end gap and see what position the rings are in before I change anything. I almost hope to find something simple that's wrong! I'll also see what the cylinder wall looks like. I'll going to hone the cylinder and put on a new set of rings. Can I tell by inspection if I have a faulty valve guide seal? Today, I got the new ignition ($28 ebay) and two locks. Previously, I was missing the lock for the seat. The seller gave me an extra plastic shroud that holds the instrument panel and switches. The old one had a crack. So I assembled all of it. Re-lugged/soldered/taped both positive and negative cables on the battery as both were about half broken. If they are cracked or shifted out of position,,but other than that they are so cheap I would just replace them,,maybe you could squirt a little PB Blaster around them and see if they seep any,,not sure how that would work.I know you can test a combustion chamber that way from valve leakage,,just fill it up with PB Blaster and see if any leaks out. |
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Post by dmartin95 on Apr 25, 2015 11:11:21 GMT -5
I got a pretty good video on my youtube channel for clocking GY6 rings. Got a link? |
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Post by jerseyboy on Apr 25, 2015 16:43:34 GMT -5
I got a pretty good video on my youtube channel for clocking GY6 rings. Got a link? Sure ,,here ya go,,the motor is running tip top,,got about 500 miles on it so far,,Im sure there are 100 other ways to do it,,but this way works for me  |
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Post by dmartin95 on Apr 25, 2015 19:07:50 GMT -5
Sure ,,here ya go,,the motor is running tip top,,got about 500 miles on it so far,,Im sure there are 100 other ways to do it,,but this way works for me Great Vid! How did you gap your rings? Did you use a file? Also, If ya don't mind sharing, where did you get the info for the ring gap size? |
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Post by jerseyboy on Apr 25, 2015 19:44:04 GMT -5
Sure ,,here ya go,,the motor is running tip top,,got about 500 miles on it so far,,Im sure there are 100 other ways to do it,,but this way works for me Great Vid! How did you gap your rings? Did you use a file? Also, If ya don't mind sharing, where did you get the info for the ring gap size? I just used a very fine flat file that I bought at Lowes for $4,,it was designed to take rakers down on a chainsaw chain,,I made very light passes with it putting equal pressure on both ends and kept the file as level as possible,,I know they make ring filing tools but this worked good enough for me as a hobbyist. I got the info for the ring end gap off the Wisco site,,there is a simple math formula for this...let me see if I can find the chart again and i will post it for you...here is a pic of the chart,you may have to zoom in a little to read it.  |
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Post by dmartin95 on Apr 25, 2015 20:07:58 GMT -5
Great Vid! How did you gap your rings? Did you use a file? Also, If ya don't mind sharing, where did you get the info for the ring gap size? I just used a very fine flat file that I bought at Lowes for $4,,it was designed to take rakers down on a chainsaw chain,,I made very light passes with it putting equal pressure on both ends and kept the file as level as possible,,I know they make ring filing tools but this worked good enough for me as a hobbyist. I got the info for the ring end gap off the Wisco site,,there is a simple math formula for this...let me see if I can find the chart again and i will post it for you...here is a pic of the chart,you may have to zoom in a little to read it. You're timing for posting all this is great.. I'm currently in the process of converting a 150cc engine from 2 valve to 4 valve and installing a BBK (58.5mm) to bring it up to a 155cc. So, I hope you'll be around tonight in case I need to pick your brain.... For example... The oil ring, or rather I should say the piece of "bologna", Mine seems like it's too big... It's over lapping and one end is trying to go over the other instead of lining up next to each other... In other words, the end are not mating up side by side, it extends and goes over the other one by about 2~3mm... Do I trim it? Cram it in there? |
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Post by rdhood on Apr 26, 2015 9:19:03 GMT -5
What gaskets will I need when I do this replancement?
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Post by jerseyboy on Apr 26, 2015 9:26:54 GMT -5
I just used a very fine flat file that I bought at Lowes for $4,,it was designed to take rakers down on a chainsaw chain,,I made very light passes with it putting equal pressure on both ends and kept the file as level as possible,,I know they make ring filing tools but this worked good enough for me as a hobbyist. I got the info for the ring end gap off the Wisco site,,there is a simple math formula for this...let me see if I can find the chart again and i will post it for you...here is a pic of the chart,you may have to zoom in a little to read it. You're timing for posting all this is great.. I'm currently in the process of converting a 150cc engine from 2 valve to 4 valve and installing a BBK (58.5mm) to bring it up to a 155cc. So, I hope you'll be around tonight in case I need to pick your brain.... For example... The oil ring, or rather I should say the piece of "bologna", Mine seems like it's too big... It's over lapping and one end is trying to go over the other instead of lining up next to each other... In other words, the end are not mating up side by side, it extends and goes over the other one by about 2~3mm... Do I trim it? Cram it in there? I had problems with my oil ring separator too,,i had to monkey with it for a minute or two before it went in,,not sure if I should have trimmed it but it fit it perfect after some playing around,,if yours is so big that it seems like its going to wrinkle out and protrude I would take a few thousands off just so it sits nice and flush in the grove with both ends just touching.Its made like an accordion so if it gets real hot the ring will just squeeze together before it damages the walls IMO. As far as I know its just a separator/cushion/spacer type ring that has nothing to do with compression,,so if its a few thousands short it wont matter much. Ive seen alot of guys say that ring end gap is not that important on these GY6 motors,,I tend to disagree,,there is no difference when it comes to heat expansion on any combustion engine.There are also shops that have set the REG at .008 on both rings for a 150 and have no problems.Im real anal when it comes to building motors so I try to make everything perfect,,do it right the first time and you wont have to worry about it down the road.Might want to research a bit more about the separator being too big or give the manufacturer a buzz and tell him about your concern as well. |
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Post by jerseyboy on Apr 26, 2015 9:30:34 GMT -5
What gaskets will I need when I do this replancement? You are going to need a new valve cover gasket,head gasket,possibly exhaust and intake gasket(you can usually reuse these if careful), and base gasket at minimum,,i would just get the complete gasket kit for the motor,,they are only $10 or so on ebay,,then you will have all the gaskets for the entire motor in case you need any down the road. Oh and head nuts get torqued to 18ft LBS much more and the studs will start too twist |
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Post by rdhood on May 1, 2015 12:35:44 GMT -5
Received all parts needed except the stuff from scrappydogscooters. It's been a week. maybe it will be here by next week....
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Post by steve on May 1, 2015 20:52:47 GMT -5
Somebody disconnected the ignition to attempt to steal it. Amateur hot-wire job. Or, maybe they lost the key, and tried to be cute.  |
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Post by rdhood on May 3, 2015 22:35:55 GMT -5
Okay, now I am finally getting some information. I took the top end off today. Here is the situation: It IS all brand new. The piston is all nice and clean like it was just installed. The cylinder still has cross hatch marks... it was never broken in. Nice! The rings were thrown on there haphazardly. For example, if you look at the video above, with the intake at the top and the exhaust at the bottom, the top ring was at 3 oclock (directly over the piston pin on that side) and the 2nd ring was at 5 oclock. There wasn't even  degrees between them... maybe 50 or 60 degrees. Every one of the ring gaps was on the exhaust side of the piston. |
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Post by geh3333 on May 4, 2015 1:17:32 GMT -5
Okay, now I am finally getting some information. I took the top end off today. Here is the situation: It IS all brand new. The piston is all nice and clean like it was just installed. The cylinder still has cross hatch marks... it was never broken in. Nice! The rings were thrown on there haphazardly. For example, if you look at the video above, with the intake at the top and the exhaust at the bottom, the top ring was at 3 oclock (directly over the piston pin on that side) and the 2nd ring was at 5 oclock. There wasn't even degrees between them... maybe 50 or 60 degrees. Every one of the ring gaps was on the exhaust side of the piston. They may have just moved. From what I understand they sometimes spin until they seat . I'd expect the rings to seat pretty quick . but if they don't seat right away they will more then likely spin and then they will not be lined up right when and if they do seat. |
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degrees between them... maybe 50 or 60 degrees. Every one of the ring gaps was on the exhaust side of the piston. 