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Post by rdhood on Apr 9, 2015 9:44:58 GMT -5
I have been looking for another scooter project to lend a riding buddy (wife/brother/anyone who will get a license and ride with me). So I was looking for a scoot similar to mine: 13" wheels, dual disc brakes, 150cc. But I noticed that dual disc brakes with 13" wheels is somewhat rare even when purchasing new. What's up with that? Was I just lucky (or not) when I purchased this configuration?
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Post by upfartoolate on Apr 9, 2015 10:54:13 GMT -5
One of the criteria when I was purchasing my scooter was disc brakes front and rear. I was looking at Sym and Kymco. I finally found the Kymco Yager GT 200i, bought a 2010 that'd sat on the dealer showroom floor for a year, got it with 1 mile on the odometer, and it's been such a great scooter that I think it'll be the last scooter I'll buy... I'll just keep riding it forever.
Any new scooter would have to be pretty awesome to move me off the FrankenYager. I mean, really... how do you beat a 174.5cc scooter that can do 79 MPH (but that's right at the ragged edge of the rev limiter... I've got taller rear gears I'm going to drop in soon), gets 75 MPG (at least when the weather is warm, when it's cold the fuel mileage drops to around 55 MPG), is fuel injected and liquid cooled, has such predictable handling that if you go too fast into a corner even on asphalt, you can drift your way out of it without highsiding, is so light you can flick it drag-to-drag with very little effort, has insurance rates at just $78/year, and is rock-solid reliable?
So, if you happen to see a used Yager for sale, snap it up, you won't be sorry.
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Post by oldchopperguy on Apr 9, 2015 11:53:16 GMT -5
Upfartoolate,
I have to agree with you on the Yager! It's a seldom-seen, seldom even heard of model. It was ahead of its time, a sort of predecessor of scoots like the new S-Max and other under-200 cc rides capable of highway speeds.
I'm an old, OLD-time Harley guy, so when I got interested in scooters, I had absolutely no preferences. After all, they stopped making the Cushman Eagle a LONG time ago... HeHeHe! My first scooter was a Xyngyue 150 that I really enjoyed for six years. Its build-quality was truly dismal, but still better than the high-dollar motorcycles of my youth... (which I was actually pretty happy with in the sixties... LOL!) So I wasn't all that disappointed, especially at only $600 delivered to my door...
I'm on Social Security, so When I needed a faster scooter to keep up with changing local traffic, I had to do it "low-budget" so I kept my shopping to used scooters. When all you look at are OLD rides, with PLENTY of miles on the clock, you REALLY find out which ones hold up and stay reliable over the years.
As expected, all the Japanese and Italian scooters I test-rode were still good after some serious wear. But due to age and arthritis, I really needed a flat-floor, step-through scooter. I wanted a 250 or bigger ride, but as similar to my old Chinese 150 in size and configuration as possible. That led me to the "outdated" Kymco Grandvista.
That old design suits me fine. I also looked at other Kymco and SYM models but most had at least a "semi-step-through" design with a hump in the floor. Not good for me, but no problem for anyone without arthritis.
Looks and feels almost like a Chinese 150... except trouble-free... LOL!
Long story made short, I found Kymco scooters to have an "extra-measure" of heavy-duty construction. I got a whole different education on them by only researching well-used models. What if found was extremely strong, heavy frames, top-quality builds and near "bullet-proof" design. For example, the former owner of mine put 14,000 miles on it, mostly loaded-down and riding two-up on the highway. He said it's been from New York to Los Angeles and Canada to Mexico, requiring only one battery, one set of brake pads, one set of tires, one belt and a muffler. The old mouse still has that "new" tight, rattle-free feel, and doesn't use a drop of oil or water...
The CDI, coil, carb, all hoses, wiring, harnesses, plastics, etc. are still supple and good as new on this hard-ridden 2007 small tourer. Like me, the owner needed a flat-floor ride, capable of 70 mph running. He traded "Minnie Mouse" on a new 2014 Kymco 300 cc fuel-injected, 4-valve model similar to the old Grandvista 19 hp 250 in size and design, but with 30 hp, 14" wheels and monster dual disks. A truly SWEET ride in town, or at 80+ mph on the road.
At the beginning of my search for an affordable 250 I had no brand-preference at all, but after riding many, MANY Honda, Yamaha, Vespa, Suzuki and other makes, I found the offerings from Kymco to be excellent for longevity, and, Kymco seems to offer some models featuring different frame designs, engine features and wheel-sizes than other manufacturers, at a good price, new OR used.
So, whether you want a fast sub-200 cc lightweight, or a potent 700 cc cruiser, while checking out all the Japanese and Italian models, I'd highly recommend ALSO checking out the Kymco lineup. You'll likely find something you like!
As for the lack of 150 class scooters with dual front disks, most likely they're not common simply because dual disks are simply not really necessary, and add production expense to the vehicle. My old Chinese 150 had typical Chinese single disks front and rear, and they were more than adequate for 55 mph stops. Even my heavier Kymco 250 uses single disks front and rear, and they are adequate at 75 mph. Dual disks ARE better, but not common on the smaller-displacement rides. However, as the 150-200 cc scooters up their speed capabilities to over 70 mph, dual disks will most likely begin to show up on them.
Ride safe! And next time you pass a Kymco dealership, check 'em out! They're SWEET!
Leo in Texas
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Post by rockynv on Apr 9, 2015 12:10:33 GMT -5
My Aprilia Sport City has dual disks and its hard to trade up to a large bike without them. With a good front tire you can do a stoppie taking the rear wheel off the ground. The bike stops fast and without fade even from  + mph. |
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Post by rdhood on Apr 9, 2015 12:31:46 GMT -5
umm... I should have clarified "dual disc". I mean disc on front and rear, rather than two discs on front like many motorcycles. See, I like dual discs. But I noticed in another thread that the engine/transmission is diff from disc on the rear vs. drum on the rear. I also notice that there are very few scoots with disc on the rear.
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Post by dmartin95 on Apr 9, 2015 12:39:23 GMT -5
Bintelli Havoc's have dual disk brakes as well. It's very rare for a Chinese 150cc scooter, however Bintelli makes an amazing scooter. Over the past year I've learned the in's and out's and know what makes the difference between a good and bad setup. Bintelli exceeds in every area except valve stems. They use standard cheap valve stems on a quality scooter. That never made sense to me.... But think about this for a moment, my only gripe after owning for a year is valve stems that have not even malfunctioned yet....That should speak volumes in itself. My newest scooter (Yamaha S MAX) also has a dual disk and both the havoc's, and the S MAX stops on a dime. For my personal ride, I would never accept scoot that was not dual disk. I'm a safety nut and now that I know the difference, DUAL DISK FOR ME  |
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Post by JerryScript on Apr 9, 2015 14:43:50 GMT -5
My Znen 150cc has front and rear disk brakes, and I'm glad it does. Last month I pulled it out of the garage while running, put it on the center stand, turned around to close the garage door, and my scooter fell over. Itf broke the brake caliper, and damaged the master cylinder. I had to ride with only rear brakes for three days, and if it had been rear drum, I would have been white knuckled the whole time. With rear disk, I only had to stop sooner and increase following distances till I got the front master cylinder replaced.
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Post by scooter on Apr 9, 2015 15:12:00 GMT -5
"Scootie", my Titan Motors MP150, had dual disks. It had the disk on the muffler side in the rear with a standard gy6 motor. I now have the 250 version of it which is set up the same way and has an oversized disk in the front.
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Post by rdhood on Apr 9, 2015 16:36:52 GMT -5
So it is pretty rare. BTW that Bintelli Havoc is a nice scoot. If I was purchasing new, I'd definitely go for one of those.
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Post by urbanmadness on Apr 9, 2015 17:49:26 GMT -5
I've had both. The rear drum on most 150's is fine. If adjusted correctly it will lock up the rear. Even the early Helix had a drum in the back. Keep them in good shape and they work just fine. Disc brakes are lighter and more refined but I wouldn't hesitate on a bike with drum brakes, at least in the rear, on a small bike.
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Post by SylvreKat on Apr 9, 2015 22:27:17 GMT -5
I believe mine has disc brakes front and rear.
And based on how many say theirs do, too, it doesn't sound all that rare after all. Maybe you just need to look at different brands than what you've been checking out?
>'Kat
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Post by hillbillybob on Apr 10, 2015 4:26:50 GMT -5
My little plastic, mainland China manufactured scooter, has disc brakes front and rear.
As SylvreKat said, it is not all that rare.....and as urbanmadness stated, there is nothing wrong with drum brakes on a properly maintained vehicle.....be it a scooter, my old 66 Pontiac, or the big rigs I made a living with for nearly 4 decades.
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Post by oldchopperguy on Apr 11, 2015 1:01:34 GMT -5
Sorry, I thought you meant dual disks on the front. My old Xingyue had disks front and rear, even though the ad I bought it from showed a drum rear. You never know just what equipment any given Chinese scoot may come with.
I've ridden scooters and motorcycles with drum brakes front and rear, and usually they are pretty decent. Even the earlier VERY fast (150+ mph) "superbikes" often had a single disk in front, and a mechanical drum at the rear. So long as the drum brake is large enough, and has enough leverage on the activating cam, it should be fine. The big difference on SCOOTERS today is that the rear drum is usually operated by a hand-lever which doesn't provide as much "oomph" as a foot on a pedal. The effectiveness of the hand-lever-drum is somewhat proportional to your hand-strength.
Even with my old 150's hydraulic front and rear disks, I was AMAZED at how much better they worked AFTER a year of riding and squeezing, strengthening my old hands... LOL!
Trust me; ANY modern brakes are better than the mechanical drums at both ends of 1950's Harleys...
Ride safe!
Leo in Texas
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+ mph.
