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Post by wilds on Mar 21, 2015 1:13:30 GMT -5
If you done a BBK you'll need to change the battery cables. The original battery cables are crap! The core of the cables are too small. The area of core is too small to push enough juice to the starter. Buy some jumper cables and use them as battery cables on your scooter. Change both positive and negative cables... Worked perfectly on my scoot. There is also a high torque starter you could buy. But you need good battery cables any way to push enough juice to it. Taida GY6 High Torque Starter |
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Post by lain on Mar 21, 2015 1:26:25 GMT -5
If you done a BBK you'll need to change the battery cables. The original battery cables are crap! The core of the cables are too small. The area of core is too small to push enough juice to the starter. Buy some jumper cables and use them as battery cables on your scooter. Change both positive and negative cables... Worked perfectly on my scoot. There is also a high torque starter you could buy Taida GY6 High Torque StarterIt is true some manufacturers use cheap wiring, but before you change the wires entirely it is wise to at least test out with your idea. It's not that hard. I am still running with all the original wires, and some extra wires going to accessories. I've done a quick test to see if the cables for the starter were bad on a friend's scoot by using a jumper cable set to connect the battery directly to the starter motor momentarily (there will be sparks so don't do it with any gas leaks or whatever) and found that it started up right away with it jumped, turned out the negative wire was fried so I just cut the jumper cable up and wired the negative on the starter to the frame above it, no more starting issues for him. The most concerning thing that scootdoggydog is saying is that gas is coming out of the muffler. I have emptied an entirely charged battery trying to start my scoot when having bad starting issues and have never seen anything come out of the muffler even when I know I had too much gas in the combustion chamber. The amount of gas that is thrown into the combustion chamber even if you try to constantly start for half an hour should not be visible coming from the muffler. |
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Post by wilds on Mar 21, 2015 2:06:05 GMT -5
About flooding, I would remove the fuel hose from the carburetor and crank the engine.
If fuel only comes out of the hose when cranking the engine the fuel petcock is OK and the problem is to be found in the carb.
After that I would clean and check the carb properly (especially the float) and re-check the valve clearances.
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Post by scootdoggydog on Mar 21, 2015 4:08:45 GMT -5
Arent jumper cables kind of a little too thick to be using for battery wires? What gauge wires should i be using? And the gas was mostly leaking out right between the muffler and the header pipe there was actually a small puddle starting to form on the ground and then i seen some wetness coming out of the very end of the muffler and when i did my compression test the tester had fuel in it when i hit the release a mist of fuel shot out and it was leaking out of the tester hose too also when i was checking for spark some mist of fuel shot out of the spark plug hole. How about switching from 15w40 conventional to 5w40 synthetic would that help at all? and is doubling up on the cylinder gasket the best idea or should i look at getting a higher performance starter? would i also need a high performance starter clutch?
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Post by scooter on Mar 21, 2015 5:28:03 GMT -5
Arent jumper cables kind of a little too thick to be using for battery wires? What gauge wires should i be using? And the gas was mostly leaking out right between the muffler and the header pipe there was actually a small puddle starting to form on the ground and then i seen some wetness coming out of the very end of the muffler and when i did my compression test the tester had fuel in it when i hit the release a mist of fuel shot out and it was leaking out of the tester hose too also when i was checking for spark some mist of fuel shot out of the spark plug hole. How about switching from 15w40 conventional to 5w40 synthetic would that help at all? and is doubling up on the cylinder gasket the best idea or should i look at getting a higher performance starter? would i also need a high performance starter clutch? Find out how many amps you need. Here's a chart showing wire size for amperage and wire length. www.offroaders.com/tech/12-volt-wire-gauge-amps.htm |
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Post by tvnacman on Mar 21, 2015 10:03:20 GMT -5
I got an pm about this I suggested 10awg as the smallest that should be used.
John
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Post by lain on Mar 22, 2015 1:33:37 GMT -5
Arent jumper cables kind of a little too thick to be using for battery wires? What gauge wires should i be using? And the gas was mostly leaking out right between the muffler and the header pipe there was actually a small puddle starting to form on the ground and then i seen some wetness coming out of the very end of the muffler and when i did my compression test the tester had fuel in it when i hit the release a mist of fuel shot out and it was leaking out of the tester hose too also when i was checking for spark some mist of fuel shot out of the spark plug hole. How about switching from 15w40 conventional to 5w40 synthetic would that help at all? and is doubling up on the cylinder gasket the best idea or should i look at getting a higher performance starter? would i also need a high performance starter clutch? Honestly, you should fix that gas issue first, it may be the cause of your issues. You could be running way too rich and that is potentially dangerous. Does it happen while running too? Does the air behind the muffler ripple like heat mirage effect when you are running? Maybe the issue is not that you do not have enough power, but you have too much gas and it cannot push it over because of the amount of gas in the combustion chamber is more than the tiny space can handle under so much compression, and lack of air. The issue may not be too much compression but may seem like it because of it being air starved because of the excess amount of gas. Too much gas and not enough air and it will not start. The wire gauge for the starter motor must be thick, the starter motor pulls what, around 100 amps? Try pushing that much power through anything thin will surely fry it or damage something. Changing your oil type will not solve starting issues. It may help starting, but will not solve anything. Lighter oil will help with cold starting in colder atmospheres. I personally use 0w-40 mobil1 full synthetic for the winter because the pour point is lower. Lower pour point temperature means that at colder temperatures the oil will still be liquid and not a sludgy hard gel like form like heavier oils at lower temperature get. But the temperature that it starts to matter to change your oil to a lighter weight is not until like 30 degrees on oils like 15w-40. |
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Post by scootdoggydog on Mar 22, 2015 8:13:36 GMT -5
The gas leak problem is a recent issue and I think all of my recent problems are compression related. It definitely seems to be the hardest to start when the temperature is the coldest. And right now heading into spring or as i like to call it (sprinter) spring/winter the temperatures can vary widely here around chicago from below freezing to 60's almost 70's right now were averaging a high of 50 to a low of 30 but it could definitely get colder or warmer than that I thought I was still breaking the bbk in but with a compression of 180 im not sure what weight oil to use. besides being difficult to start i think the high compression was opening up my valve gaps. I noticed when I would slow down for a stop light or stop sign the scooter was starting to die at first i thought i was being fuel starved because of a bad petcock because it didnt look like there was any fuel in the filter. so i bypassed the petcock for a little bit but was still having the same problem so then i checked the valve gaps and they were a lot wider than i usually set them so i adjusted them back to normal .04 ish maybe .03 - .04 for intake and .04 - .05 for exhaust then i reconnected the petcock and sucked on the vacuum to it to prime the filter could i have damaged it doing this to cause my gas leak? and then when i went to try and start my scooter with the cold temps, high compression and possibly faulty petcock i think thats what lead me to all my problems now. So im looking at getting better battery cables do i need to upgrade the negative ground wire too or just the positive? and maybe getting a manual petcock. And then maybe switching oil weight but im not sure if i should try a 10w 5w or 0w. Thanks everybody for all the help I really appreciate it. Im going nuts here trying to figure all this crap out.
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Post by scooter on Mar 22, 2015 10:04:45 GMT -5
The gas leak problem is a recent issue and I think all of my recent problems are compression related. It definitely seems to be the hardest to start when the temperature is the coldest. And right now heading into spring or as i like to call it (sprinter) spring/winter the temperatures can vary widely here around chicago from below freezing to 60's almost 70's right now were averaging a high of 50 to a low of 30 but it could definitely get colder or warmer than that I thought I was still breaking the bbk in but with a compression of 180 im not sure what weight oil to use. besides being difficult to start i think the high compression was opening up my valve gaps. I noticed when I would slow down for a stop light or stop sign the scooter was starting to die at first i thought i was being fuel starved because of a bad petcock because it didnt look like there was any fuel in the filter. so i bypassed the petcock for a little bit but was still having the same problem so then i checked the valve gaps and they were a lot wider than i usually set them so i adjusted them back to normal .04 ish maybe .03 - .04 for intake and .04 - .05 for exhaust then i reconnected the petcock and sucked on the vacuum to it to prime the filter could i have damaged it doing this to cause my gas leak? and then when i went to try and start my scooter with the cold temps, high compression and possibly faulty petcock i think thats what lead me to all my problems now. So im looking at getting better battery cables do i need to upgrade the negative ground wire too or just the positive? and maybe getting a manual petcock. And then maybe switching oil weight but im not sure if i should try a 10w 5w or 0w. Thanks everybody for all the help I really appreciate it. Im going nuts here trying to figure all this crap out. If we're talking inches then the gap is way too big. If you're talking mm it's too small. Where is the gas leaking from? You need both wires to carry the amperage for the starter. |
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Post by scootdoggydog on Mar 22, 2015 10:59:32 GMT -5
I think i forgot a 0 in there does .004 sound better lol Im pretty sure the gas was leaking out of the exhaust as I was trying to start it it started coming out of the muffler mostly where it connects to the header pipe and a little out of the end. Maybe I just need a bigger ground wire then. My scooter uses a totally dc system with a floated ground. I have a small wire connected diretly from a bolt on the starter to the neg- post on the battery not sure what gauge but its closer to the size of most of the wires on the scooter not the 2 big red and black ones that connect directly to the battery.
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Post by wilds on Mar 22, 2015 11:59:51 GMT -5
I would concentrate on the flooding problem first and when that is fixed move on to the compression issue.
And when you have fixed the flooding problem, I would change the oil!
A good part of the fuel from the flooding can now be mixed in with the oil...
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Post by scootdoggydog on Mar 30, 2015 23:56:23 GMT -5
I checked the carb and everything seemed fine. The fuel petcock was suspect so i replaced it with an inline manual fuel valve shutoff. I did get the scooter to start and the oil was full of gas so i changed it to 5w40 synthetic. I also replaced the battery cables with 8awg. But I was still having starting problems. I even tried jumping it with jumper cables directly from the starter to the battery and nothing it wouldnt even turn over. So I took the fan cover off and rotated the fan/flywheel by hand it was difficult but i could tell there were times when the valves opened there was less compression and that is the sweet spot for starting. if it gets stuck on the compression at tdc or whatever when the valves are closed the starter cant do anything so i have to rotate the flywheel by hand to get it unstuck to where the valves will open so there is less compression and then it will start.
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Post by lain on Mar 31, 2015 15:24:17 GMT -5
I checked the carb and everything seemed fine. The fuel petcock was suspect so i replaced it with an inline manual fuel valve shutoff. I did get the scooter to start and the oil was full of gas so i changed it to 5w40 synthetic. I also replaced the battery cables with 8awg. But I was still having starting problems. I even tried jumping it with jumper cables directly from the starter to the battery and nothing it wouldnt even turn over. So I took the fan cover off and rotated the fan/flywheel by hand it was difficult but i could tell there were times when the valves opened there was less compression and that is the sweet spot for starting. if it gets stuck on the compression at tdc or whatever when the valves are closed the starter cant do anything so i have to rotate the flywheel by hand to get it unstuck to where the valves will open so there is less compression and then it will start. Try a thicker head gasket to relieve compression like I mentioned earlier. Not sure if they exist for 150cc though, but worth looking into. How else does one relieve compression? |
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Post by scootdoggydog on Mar 31, 2015 16:00:49 GMT -5
Im thinking of just getting a high performance high torque starter
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Post by JerryScript on Mar 31, 2015 16:01:30 GMT -5
The tried and true method is doubling or tripling the base gasket. You can also out in a more powerful starter motor.
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