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Post by geh3333 on Mar 7, 2015 23:12:35 GMT -5
That's actually the nice thing about rock island 's , there is usually no break in period like most 1911's . there is even a video of someone shooting 2 brand new 1911's . one is a kimber and one is a rock island. The more expensive number had multiple malfunctions but the rock island shot perfect right out of the box. If I recall there was one issue with a bad rd or something. But was not gun function related. Also many don't know that the cheaper mags ,like the 7 rd cheap steal colt mags can be made very reliable by just doing some dremel work . when I bought the 16 rd promag steal mag I saw that the reviews were terrible . when I received it I noticed that you could not even push the first few RDS out of the fully loaded mag. The rd was catching on the lip of the front of the mag. I compared it to my Novak mags and dremeled the top of the mag to match the Novak . I only used the 16 rd promag twice at the range and both times they worked flawlessly. I'll have to make a video on post it on youtube , to show everyone how to make a 15 rd " its actually 16 RDS " promag reliable. Geh3333,
Woo-HOO! I well-remember those Armi Jager .22 AR-15 clones. Marvelous little toys! I believe they were better than many of the "plethora" of NEW M-16 wannabes from modern manufacturers. The internet is loaded with vids of Chiappa and other makes that look great, and do NOT function well...
I was pretty young when the Armi-Jagers were available. If my old memory serves me (and THAT is not a certainty...) they were imported and sold by Mitchell Arms, and considering their well-executed die-cast construction, I'd bet the farm they were an original GERMAN design, probably by Erma. Mitchell offered a number of nice arms of various types, including the AR-15 rim-fires, Hi-Standard .22's and shotguns, various Lugers, and some swell single-action Colt clones.
I'll bet you CAN find parts for your rifle at Numrich Arms. They have EVERYTHING!
I too am a BIG fan of the arms from the Philippines. Armscor, ATI, Rock Island and such appear to be at least "loosely" affiliated. Modern AR-15 and AK-47 style .22 rim-fires abound (though not quite as nice as the old Armi-Jager versions). And then there's the "Squires-Bingham" .22 semi-auto that's been around since I was a little nipper... The "poor-man's Ruger" it has a near cult-following, and can't be beat for an affordable, reliable little .22 semi-auto.
If you get a "Jones" for a vintage Colt Detective Special .38, there is also a very nice all-steel close copy available from Armscor and at least one other Filipino maker. Everybody over 50 is a sucker for a good .38 snubby! ____________________________________________________
Now... concerning those GREAT 1911 .45 ACP pistols... I'm DEFINITELY with you on them! My original GI 1911 is getting VERY long in the tooth, and due for retirement. So, a few years ago I was seduced by this ATI sub-compact sweetheart... I'm not sure just WHICH maker produced mine. I don't believe ATI is a manufacturer... Mine probably came off the Armscor assembly line. It came with virtually every enhancement imaginable (except ambidextrous safety) from the factory.
The dang thing is SO pretty, I couldn't resist adding the wild spalted-maple grips... Just me...
While these "micro" compacts DO sacrifice a lot to chop off that last quarter-inch of barrel/slide length, that very fact soon proves how well the pistol is made. (Kimbers, Colts and others often do NOT work well without smithing) and guns costing over a thousand bucks SHOULD not need smithing to make them work... THIS one is a winner.
My gunsmith tells me Kimber, Smith & Wesson and some other high-end 1011 builders actually get some of their receivers, slides and barrels from RIA, Armscor and affiliated Filipino companies. I would NOT be surprised. The quality is SUPERB. Attention to detail is as good or better than anything wearing the Kimber trademark, and, as you mentioned, they WORK right out of the box.
The Filipinos make their 1911's to government spec's. And they work like they should. If like me, one wants the smallest 1911, he or she should not expect full-sized 1911 levels of reliability from the micros, due to the really "wonky" recoil-spring design necessitated by the short barrel/slide (which John Browning NEVER would have approved of... LOL!). Get the compact "run in" and reliable, and practice with a standard size .45. Keep the compact for "O.S." needs only.
Keep yer' powder dry!
Leo
You are correct about Mitchell arms , the armi jager ap74 was made in Italy. I got lucky with mine " not only being handed down " , its an older version with the stronger fireing pin and extractor . many of the later jager's came with a different style fireing pin and extractor the often broke . the only way to buy a new f pin or extractor is to have a gunsmith make them . the stock on mine is cracked but I can fix it with some bondo and paint . also someone e cracked the hand grip yrs ago and glued it back together . last time I shot it , the grip broke , so I bought an An old used A1 m16 grip and installed it on the jager. Wow that is a beautiful 1911 ! I've never seen anything like it " as in the finish ". And the mag also ! I love how they matched the finish on it. Very beautiful 1911. |
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Post by geh3333 on Mar 7, 2015 23:16:47 GMT -5
Armscor is the #1 producer of 1911's on the planet now. They stuck to the exact specs of the old browning "colt" 1911's they have been producing some very good and reliable quality 1911's for great prices.
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Post by oldchopperguy on Mar 8, 2015 16:16:23 GMT -5
geh3333,
Your Armi-Jager is definitely worth fixing up. Not only for the family-ownership history, but it's a very good little gun! (Not to mention it'll scare the bejeebers out of a home invader... HeHeHe...) I've found that with modern epoxies, you can make a permanent repair on just about any wood or plastic. Once good and strongly repaired, a little careful sanding, filling and priming (and a little more sanding... LOL!) and a final coat of quality matte, or flat-black lacquer and the gun will look new, and be fine for decades.
I remember those rifles also came in an identical "sport" version, with the furniture in natural-finished hardwood. That combination of military and civilian cosmetics was fabulous, but didn't sell. I had a pal do up a real AR-15 like that. He was a furniture maker and made a complete stock, pistol-grip and fore-end from premium rosewood, exactly matching the appearance of the original plastics. All the military wannabes hated it, but it was the prettiest .223 rifle one could want!
______________________________________________
That ATI .45 of mine is a thing of beauty... THANKS... aside from the extended slide-stop, it's factory stock. I needed a new .45 carry-gun, and just couldn't resist it! I traded a Colt 1917 .45 revolver for it, even over... Approx. a fair trade at the time. The gun came only with one Italian-made blued magazine. The stainless mag is actually a Colt mag I had on hand. Both mags function fine.
For everyday shooting, and total reliability you need to stick to a full-size version like yours... or at least a "Commander" size. These use "regular" 1911 style recoil-springs and guide-rods. They also allow the slide to recoil WAY back past the top cartridge in the mag. This is a MAJOR factor in the 1911's ultra-reliable reputation.
These "Micro" versions like mine are handy, but suffer a lot from the truly compromised recoil-spring and guide-rod setup needed to keep them short. In addition, the slide BARELY goes back past the top round in the mag. That's why you see Kimbers and other high-end versions (and some Filipino guns too) which "stovepipe" double-feed, and fail to pick up a round, closing the slide on an empty chamber. A weak magazine spring also will cause the top round to "pop up" too slowly, allowing the slide to close on an empty chamber... Fortunately, mine has all the ejection-port, ramp, chamber, breech-face trick "bells and whistles" done at the factory, giving it the best possible chance to feed, fire and eject well.
I had an early Para Ordnance "P-10" that did that so badly that it was "incurable" and Para refunded my money after several trips back to the factory.
The fact that the slide slams rearward to a stop with NO extra "wiggle-room" behind the next round in the mag also causes one other irritation... When the slide locks back after firing the last round, and a fresh mag is inserted, you can ONLY release the slide with the SLIDE RELEASE LEVER. You can NOT pull the slide back any further to disengage the slide-release.
Not a problem if you have hands like a gorilla... LOL! But I opted to fit a long slide-release lever to mine. Short thumbs and arthritis forced me to use both hands and WAY too much time off-target to break loose the standard slide release upon reloading... The long lever fixed that fine, and with smallish hands, I don't tend to accidentally engage it while shooting.
Lots of compromises come with these itty-bitty .45's, true. But when they work, and go bang every time you pull the trigger, they are a real fistful of whoopass.
And, they're so danged pretty... LOL! The shorty design is a booger to get "just right" and the Rube Goldberg recoil-spring setup doesn't last long if shot a lot... So... Just keep your big one for practice, and for all types of carry other than deep concealment. Once you know it's reliable, don't shoot the "mini" much at all unless necessary.
I just got my Ruger Charger receiver, so I can begin building my "bugout" gun... LOL! If only everything in life was as reliable as those Rugers!
Keep your powder dry!
Leo
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Post by oldchopperguy on Mar 8, 2015 16:36:32 GMT -5
Armscor is the #1 producer of 1911's on the planet now. They stuck to the exact specs of the old browning "colt" 1911's they have been producing some very good and reliable quality 1911's for great prices. I've heard the same thing!
I always get a chuckle from shooters trashing the Filipino 1911's simply because they are somewhat affordable... The loudest protests often come from shooters of Kimber, Colt, Smith & Wesson and other high-end pistols they paid THOUSANDS for, then had to pay another $500 to $1,000 to a good smith to replace, fit and tweak parts to make them work.
Now to be honest, a Filipino mini .45 surely may exhibit the same miserable malfunctions as its expensive name-brand siblings, but the Armscor or RIA gun will respond to the same fixes, and remain thousands of bucks less expensive. And THAT savings will buy you a second "daily driver" 1911, AND a LOT of practice ammo!
Then, the complainers diligently go to the range monthly and shoot a thousand rounds or so through their newly-tweaked mini, and it goes south again, breaking the recoil-spring, guide rod, or simply having the weird springs just go weak, inducing all sorts of malfunctions. Then, it's back to the gunsmith with the MasterCard... LOL!
These minis are NOT plinkers, or "sport-shooters". Once you have one working right. LEAVE IT ALONE until needed. Get a standard or Commander-size 1911 to practice with. Heck, a full-size Armscor GI 1911 probably costs LESS than a trip to the smith for a recalcitrant Kimber, and you can BET it will work.
Of course, I need to remind everyone these opinions are only my own, based on personal experience. To each his or her own... THAT is what makes life so interesting!
Leo (not fully retired the old GI .45 yet) in Texas
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Post by geh3333 on Mar 8, 2015 22:25:44 GMT -5
geh3333,
Your Armi-Jager is definitely worth fixing up. Not only for the family-ownership history, but it's a very good little gun! (Not to mention it'll scare the bejeebers out of a home invader... HeHeHe...) I've found that with modern epoxies, you can make a permanent repair on just about any wood or plastic. Once good and strongly repaired, a little careful sanding, filling and priming (and a little more sanding... LOL!) and a final coat of quality matte, or flat-black lacquer and the gun will look new, and be fine for decades. I remember those rifles also came in an identical "sport" version, with the furniture in natural-finished hardwood. That combination of military and civilian cosmetics was fabulous, but didn't sell. I had a pal do up a real AR-15 like that. He was a furniture maker and made a complete stock, pistol-grip and fore-end from premium rosewood, exactly matching the appearance of the original plastics. All the military wannabes hated it, but it was the prettiest .223 rifle one could want! ______________________________________________ That ATI .45 of mine is a thing of beauty... THANKS... aside from the extended slide-stop, it's factory stock. I needed a new .45 carry-gun, and just couldn't resist it! I traded a Colt 1917 .45 revolver for it, even over... Approx. a fair trade at the time. The gun came only with one Italian-made blued magazine. The stainless mag is actually a Colt mag I had on hand. Both mags function fine. For everyday shooting, and total reliability you need to stick to a full-size version like yours... or at least a "Commander" size. These use "regular" 1911 style recoil-springs and guide-rods. They also allow the slide to recoil WAY back past the top cartridge in the mag. This is a MAJOR factor in the 1911's ultra-reliable reputation. These "Micro" versions like mine are handy, but suffer a lot from the truly compromised recoil-spring and guide-rod setup needed to keep them short. In addition, the slide BARELY goes back past the top round in the mag. That's why you see Kimbers and other high-end versions (and some Filipino guns too) which "stovepipe" double-feed, and fail to pick up a round, closing the slide on an empty chamber. A weak magazine spring also will cause the top round to "pop up" too slowly, allowing the slide to close on an empty chamber... Fortunately, mine has all the ejection-port, ramp, chamber, breech-face trick "bells and whistles" done at the factory, giving it the best possible chance to feed, fire and eject well. I had an early Para Ordnance "P-10" that did that so badly that it was "incurable" and Para refunded my money after several trips back to the factory.The fact that the slide slams rearward to a stop with NO extra "wiggle-room" behind the next round in the mag also causes one other irritation... When the slide locks back after firing the last round, and a fresh mag is inserted, you can ONLY release the slide with the SLIDE RELEASE LEVER. You can NOT pull the slide back any further to disengage the slide-release. Not a problem if you have hands like a gorilla... LOL! But I opted to fit a long slide-release lever to mine. Short thumbs and arthritis forced me to use both hands and WAY too much time off-target to break loose the standard slide release upon reloading... The long lever fixed that fine, and with smallish hands, I don't tend to accidentally engage it while shooting. Lots of compromises come with these itty-bitty .45's, true. But when they work, and go bang every time you pull the trigger, they are a real fistful of whoopass. And, they're so danged pretty... LOL! The shorty design is a booger to get "just right" and the Rube Goldberg recoil-spring setup doesn't last long if shot a lot... So... Just keep your big one for practice, and for all types of carry other than deep concealment. Once you know it's reliable, don't shoot the "mini" much at all unless necessary. I just got my Ruger Charger receiver, so I can begin building my "bugout" gun... LOL! If only everything in life was as reliable as those Rugers! Keep your powder dry!Leo The finish on the grips seemed to blend into the lower receiver , and a quick look at the mag looked as if the mag had some kind of same print " reflection " lol, but I can see the finish now that I go back and look. it is a very beautiful firearm . I agree with everything you said about the more expensive 1911's . I've seen people pay up to 10,000 for a custom 1911. If u have the money and want a customized 10k 1911 its their choice , but from most reviews and personal experience the full size RIA 1911's will be just as reliable. The ATI , its polished stainless steel ? My dad has a 45 colt " not a colt but a cheaper make " its polished chrome but need to be polished up again . he bought it used between 3 and $400 a few months ago. I can't remember the make , I'll have to check it out again . His 45 colt is a great western single action . i think its the model 1873. |
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Post by oldchopperguy on Mar 8, 2015 23:30:04 GMT -5
Geh3333,
Sorry but the pix are not the best... Shot on the kitchen table with poor light... Anyway, the pistol slide is matte-finished on top to cut glare, with standard 1911 front-site, and blued Novak rear-sight. The whole pistol is stainless, with the sides of the slide bright, but slightly brushed-finish. The whole receiver is mirror-polished. The factory mag is bright-blued, and my spare Colt stainless mag is bright-polished (but considerably "used"...).
The gun IS a tad "blingy" but then, nobody ever accused me of having good taste... LOL! Yeah, I'm the guy who's going to complement my scoot's wide-whites with a genuine 1940's illuminated swan hood-ornament... HeHeHe...
____________________________________________________________
Sounds like your Dad got a good old SA revolver! Again, my old brain has to go back a half-century or so, trying to remember just WHO made the GREAT WESTERN guns... I'm pretty sure they were made in Germany, to fill the incredible demand for SA Colt-types fostered by the TV Western craze. It MAY or may not be marked "J. P. Sauer" or maybe Rohm, GMBH. I think the Great Western guns may also have been the same guns trademarked "Hy Hunter". Hy Hunter was a somewhat "obscure" Hollywood personality who trademarked a load of various, colorful firearms in the fifties.
From what I remember, your Dad's gun may be polished chrome, nickel or even Sterling silver. In any case, whatever the plating, C-A-R-E-F-U-L polishing can make it look great, and blend any peeled areas into the metal beneath. I kept an aging nickel Colt Cobra "fresh" for decades like that.
Back "in the day" shooters looked at the Great Western and Hy Hunter guns the same as the new Filipino .45's. They were just too affordable to be very good. NOT! They were VERY good, and today, pristine examples bring strong prices! Thinking back, Herter's catalog featured numerous SA Colt-type revolvers, specializing in the "new" .44 Magnum caliber. Those were made in Germany, probably on the same line as the Great Westerns. I never, EVER heard of one blowing up, or even cracking.
Any doubts to their quality should be allayed by the fact that back then, the mighty .44 Magnum was loaded to FEROCIOUS pressure and velocity (muzzle-energy in the ballpark of a 30-30 rifle when fired from a 4" revolver. About 1,600 foot-pounds if I recall!!!!!). A real test of a gun's strength. Adventurous hunters successfully brought down KODIAK BEARS with their S & W "Dirty Harry" specials... (which shot loose after about 100 rounds of that ammo!). Bill Ruger fixed that... But power levels still got reduced.
Heck, somewhere, I still have a box of 1950's Smith & Wesson brand .357 Magnum ammo, listed at near 1,000 foot-pounds of energy from a 4" barrel! How'd ya like to shoot THAT stuff in a 10-ounce titanium J-frame?
Ammo makers did NOT spare the ponies back then. I think today's ammo is loaded to about half that...
Things were so much more fun back then! You and your Dad will LOVE that Great Western! They are quite authentic old-school Colt. So keep an empty chamber under the hammer.
Stay safe!
Leo |
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Post by geh3333 on Mar 9, 2015 1:57:42 GMT -5
Geh3333,
Sorry but the pix are not the best... Shot on the kitchen table with poor light... Anyway, the pistol slide is matte-finished on top to cut glare, with standard 1911 front-site, and blued Novak rear-sight. The whole pistol is stainless, with the sides of the slide bright, but slightly brushed-finish. The whole receiver is mirror-polished. The factory mag is bright-blued, and my spare Colt stainless mag is bright-polished (but considerably "used"...).
The gun IS a tad "blingy" but then, nobody ever accused me of having good taste... LOL! Yeah, I'm the guy who's going to complement my scoot's wide-whites with a genuine 1940's illuminated swan hood-ornament... HeHeHe...
____________________________________________________________
Sounds like your Dad got a good old SA revolver! Again, my old brain has to go back a half-century or so, trying to remember just WHO made the GREAT WESTERN guns... I'm pretty sure they were made in Germany, to fill the incredible demand for SA Colt-types fostered by the TV Western craze. It MAY or may not be marked "J. P. Sauer" or maybe Rohm, GMBH. I think the Great Western guns may also have been the same guns trademarked "Hy Hunter". Hy Hunter was a somewhat "obscure" Hollywood personality who trademarked a load of various, colorful firearms in the fifties.
From what I remember, your Dad's gun may be polished chrome, nickel or even Sterling silver. In any case, whatever the plating, C-A-R-E-F-U-L polishing can make it look great, and blend any peeled areas into the metal beneath. I kept an aging nickel Colt Cobra "fresh" for decades like that.
Back "in the day" shooters looked at the Great Western and Hy Hunter guns the same as the new Filipino .45's. They were just too affordable to be very good. NOT! They were VERY good, and today, pristine examples bring strong prices! Thinking back, Herter's catalog featured numerous SA Colt-type revolvers, specializing in the "new" .44 Magnum caliber. Those were made in Germany, probably on the same line as the Great Westerns. I never, EVER heard of one blowing up, or even cracking.
Any doubts to their quality should be allayed by the fact that back then, the mighty .44 Magnum was loaded to FEROCIOUS pressure and velocity (muzzle-energy in the ballpark of a 30-30 rifle when fired from a 4" revolver. About 1,600 foot-pounds if I recall!!!!!). A real test of a gun's strength. Adventurous hunters successfully brought down KODIAK BEARS with their S & W "Dirty Harry" specials... (which shot loose after about 100 rounds of that ammo!). Bill Ruger fixed that... But power levels still got reduced.
Heck, somewhere, I still have a box of 1950's Smith & Wesson brand .357 Magnum ammo, listed at near 1,000 foot-pounds of energy from a 4" barrel! How'd ya like to shoot THAT stuff in a 10-ounce titanium J-frame?
Ammo makers did NOT spare the ponies back then. I think today's ammo is loaded to about half that...
Things were so much more fun back then! You and your Dad will LOVE that Great Western! They are quite authentic old-school Colt. So keep an empty chamber under the hammer.
Stay safe!
Leo We never even got a chance to shoot it yet , he had his surgery a little over a month after he bought it . their are many things we haven't done in the last so many yes like , fishing and shooting . after something happens like what he is going through , it reminds you how important the smaller things are . my dad has never been a real big gun person , meaning he never really owned or shot many guns . when my first child was born I knew it was time to purchase my first firearm . he didnt start buying any until i got a few .when I was 13 had a few past down to me from one of my grandfather's when he died . I bought a cheap double stack wasr10 type AK to have just in case I had an intruder " you become more aware of the danger of the world when u have kids " I've been happy with the wasr10's I've purchased " 2 all together " I've heard bad thing about them when it comes to canted sights and mainly the way they were put together , but the newer ones have much better reviews. Even with my wasrs I've not had any mechanical issues. I bought a cheap Mossberg 715t " actually 2 of them " they had a couple different models and I didn't like the looks of either , so I bout both and rearranged one to fit my preference. Here is a pic .  . It was very unreliable , and jammed a lot . it was just a Mossberg 705 plinkster with an AR type shell. The plinkster was suppose to be a very good and reliable 22 , so I'm guessing the problem may have been with the mag design for the 715t. I sold it along with the left over 715t I had . here is a pic of one of my wasr 10 AK's and my RIA FS A1 1911. I removed the parkerized finish from the receiver of the 1911 "since it was wearing out around the grip " I am going to have it refinished " the received " the same color as the lettering on the slide which is sort of a tan color. I also replaced the wood grips with vz grips . I've always liked the wood furniture on the AK 47's  I also added a dust cover on the 715t just for show , lol |
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Post by oldchopperguy on Mar 9, 2015 21:36:51 GMT -5
Geh3333,
GREAT looking tactical guns!!!
The trouble you had with the Mossberg seems to be common on these new AR 15 wannabes. I would imagine the "real deal" versions from Walther and other major M 16 makers would be good, but cheesh, who wants to pay a grand for a .22 rim-fire?
I think your old Armi-Jager is probably much better than the current crop of "tactical" .22's.
I wondered about the Mossberg. The "Plinkster" was a good little rifle and I hoped the tactical cosmetics would not hinder its performance, but sadly that is not the case. I believe you're right about the mag being the culprit.
If I wanted a serious, dependable, tactical-type .22 I'd build one from a Ruger 10-22 in either an "Archangel" plastic stock, or, the wood M1-carbine stock. And stick with Ruger factory 25 round mags.
With today's .22 long rifle ammo topping 160 ft/lb of muzzle-energy from a rifle barrel, a tactical .22 actually IS practical. Even at 100 yards, I'd hate to get peppered with high-velocity .22's. They WILL perforate your nasty self, deep enough to do fatal damage!
Enjoy those toys!
Leo
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Post by geh3333 on Mar 9, 2015 22:06:01 GMT -5
Thank you, I plan on keeping the jager for a long time , I will make it solid again and and take good care of her . have a good one
George
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Post by geh3333 on Mar 13, 2015 0:11:21 GMT -5
Geh3333,
Sorry but the pix are not the best... Shot on the kitchen table with poor light... Anyway, the pistol slide is matte-finished on top to cut glare, with standard 1911 front-site, and blued Novak rear-sight. The whole pistol is stainless, with the sides of the slide bright, but slightly brushed-finish. The whole receiver is mirror-polished. The factory mag is bright-blued, and my spare Colt stainless mag is bright-polished (but considerably "used"...).
The gun IS a tad "blingy" but then, nobody ever accused me of having good taste... LOL! Yeah, I'm the guy who's going to complement my scoot's wide-whites with a genuine 1940's illuminated swan hood-ornament... HeHeHe...
____________________________________________________________
Sounds like your Dad got a good old SA revolver! Again, my old brain has to go back a half-century or so, trying to remember just WHO made the GREAT WESTERN guns... I'm pretty sure they were made in Germany, to fill the incredible demand for SA Colt-types fostered by the TV Western craze. It MAY or may not be marked "J. P. Sauer" or maybe Rohm, GMBH. I think the Great Western guns may also have been the same guns trademarked "Hy Hunter". Hy Hunter was a somewhat "obscure" Hollywood personality who trademarked a load of various, colorful firearms in the fifties.
From what I remember, your Dad's gun may be polished chrome, nickel or even Sterling silver. In any case, whatever the plating, C-A-R-E-F-U-L polishing can make it look great, and blend any peeled areas into the metal beneath. I kept an aging nickel Colt Cobra "fresh" for decades like that.
Back "in the day" shooters looked at the Great Western and Hy Hunter guns the same as the new Filipino .45's. They were just too affordable to be very good. NOT! They were VERY good, and today, pristine examples bring strong prices! Thinking back, Herter's catalog featured numerous SA Colt-type revolvers, specializing in the "new" .44 Magnum caliber. Those were made in Germany, probably on the same line as the Great Westerns. I never, EVER heard of one blowing up, or even cracking.
Any doubts to their quality should be allayed by the fact that back then, the mighty .44 Magnum was loaded to FEROCIOUS pressure and velocity (muzzle-energy in the ballpark of a 30-30 rifle when fired from a 4" revolver. About 1,600 foot-pounds if I recall!!!!!). A real test of a gun's strength. Adventurous hunters successfully brought down KODIAK BEARS with their S & W "Dirty Harry" specials... (which shot loose after about 100 rounds of that ammo!). Bill Ruger fixed that... But power levels still got reduced.
Heck, somewhere, I still have a box of 1950's Smith & Wesson brand .357 Magnum ammo, listed at near 1,000 foot-pounds of energy from a 4" barrel! How'd ya like to shoot THAT stuff in a 10-ounce titanium J-frame?
Ammo makers did NOT spare the ponies back then. I think today's ammo is loaded to about half that...
Things were so much more fun back then! You and your Dad will LOVE that Great Western! They are quite authentic old-school Colt. So keep an empty chamber under the hammer.
Stay safe!
Leo |
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Post by geh3333 on Mar 13, 2015 0:13:32 GMT -5
Geh3333,
Sorry but the pix are not the best... Shot on the kitchen table with poor light... Anyway, the pistol slide is matte-finished on top to cut glare, with standard 1911 front-site, and blued Novak rear-sight. The whole pistol is stainless, with the sides of the slide bright, but slightly brushed-finish. The whole receiver is mirror-polished. The factory mag is bright-blued, and my spare Colt stainless mag is bright-polished (but considerably "used"...).
The gun IS a tad "blingy" but then, nobody ever accused me of having good taste... LOL! Yeah, I'm the guy who's going to complement my scoot's wide-whites with a genuine 1940's illuminated swan hood-ornament... HeHeHe...
____________________________________________________________
Sounds like your Dad got a good old SA revolver! Again, my old brain has to go back a half-century or so, trying to remember just WHO made the GREAT WESTERN guns... I'm pretty sure they were made in Germany, to fill the incredible demand for SA Colt-types fostered by the TV Western craze. It MAY or may not be marked "J. P. Sauer" or maybe Rohm, GMBH. I think the Great Western guns may also have been the same guns trademarked "Hy Hunter". Hy Hunter was a somewhat "obscure" Hollywood personality who trademarked a load of various, colorful firearms in the fifties.
From what I remember, your Dad's gun may be polished chrome, nickel or even Sterling silver. In any case, whatever the plating, C-A-R-E-F-U-L polishing can make it look great, and blend any peeled areas into the metal beneath. I kept an aging nickel Colt Cobra "fresh" for decades like that.
Back "in the day" shooters looked at the Great Western and Hy Hunter guns the same as the new Filipino .45's. They were just too affordable to be very good. NOT! They were VERY good, and today, pristine examples bring strong prices! Thinking back, Herter's catalog featured numerous SA Colt-type revolvers, specializing in the "new" .44 Magnum caliber. Those were made in Germany, probably on the same line as the Great Westerns. I never, EVER heard of one blowing up, or even cracking.
Any doubts to their quality should be allayed by the fact that back then, the mighty .44 Magnum was loaded to FEROCIOUS pressure and velocity (muzzle-energy in the ballpark of a 30-30 rifle when fired from a 4" revolver. About 1,600 foot-pounds if I recall!!!!!). A real test of a gun's strength. Adventurous hunters successfully brought down KODIAK BEARS with their S & W "Dirty Harry" specials... (which shot loose after about 100 rounds of that ammo!). Bill Ruger fixed that... But power levels still got reduced.
Heck, somewhere, I still have a box of 1950's Smith & Wesson brand .357 Magnum ammo, listed at near 1,000 foot-pounds of energy from a 4" barrel! How'd ya like to shoot THAT stuff in a 10-ounce titanium J-frame?
Ammo makers did NOT spare the ponies back then. I think today's ammo is loaded to about half that...
Things were so much more fun back then! You and your Dad will LOVE that Great Western! They are quite authentic old-school Colt. So keep an empty chamber under the hammer.
Stay safe!
Leo We never even got a chance to shoot it yet , he had his surgery a little over a month after he bought it . their are many things we haven't done in the last so many yes like , fishing and shooting . after something happens like what he is going through , it reminds you how important the smaller things are . my dad has never been a real big gun person , meaning he never really owned or shot many guns . when my first child was born I knew it was time to purchase my first firearm . he didnt start buying any until i got a few .when I was 13 had a few past down to me from one of my grandfather's when he died . I bought a cheap double stack wasr10 type AK to have just in case I had an intruder " you become more aware of the danger of the world when u have kids " I've been happy with the wasr10's I've purchased " 2 all together " I've heard bad thing about them when it comes to canted sights and mainly the way they were put together , but the newer ones have much better reviews. Even with my wasrs I've not had any mechanical issues. I bought a cheap Mossberg 715t " actually 2 of them " they had a couple different models and I didn't like the looks of either , so I bout both and rearranged one to fit my preference. Here is a pic . . It was very unreliable , and jammed a lot . it was just a Mossberg 705 plinkster with an AR type shell. The plinkster was suppose to be a very good and reliable 22 , so I'm guessing the problem may have been with the mag design for the 715t. I sold it along with the left over 715t I had . here is a pic of one of my wasr 10 AK's and my RIA FS A1 1911. I removed the parkerized finish from the receiver of the 1911 "since it was wearing out around the grip " I am going to have it refinished " the received " the same color as the lettering on the slide which is sort of a tan color. I also replaced the wood grips with vz grips . I've always liked the wood furniture on the AK 47's I also added a dust cover on the 715t just for show , lol I made a mistake , my dads great western is stainless not chrome . I'm going to have it cleaned up for him. |
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Post by oldchopperguy on Mar 13, 2015 0:29:44 GMT -5
Hey, are you SURE that Great Western is STANLESS? I've seen them in blue, nickel, chrome, silver and even gold... but never stainless. If so, it must be one of the very last models. Must have been in the late fifties or early sixties stainless guns started showing up. They were difficult to make, so a stainless model would be HIGHLY desirable.
I looked on Gunbroker.com and found clean specimens of the GW single-actions bringing pretty good prices. Most were plated, and peeling. A stainless one would rare indeed, and far more valuable. Also, it could be polished like new! You can't get away with that with blued or plated guns. I love that feature... If they get a little beat up, just sand 'em down, and polish 'em up! Sure hope it IS stainless... If so, it would last 4-ever... I'd never part with it!
Ride (and shoot) safe!
Leo
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Post by geh3333 on Mar 13, 2015 16:55:47 GMT -5
Hey, are you SURE that Great Western is STANLESS? I've seen them in blue, nickel, chrome, silver and even gold... but never stainless. If so, it must be one of the very last models. Must have been in the late fifties or early sixties stainless guns started showing up. They were difficult to make, so a stainless model would be HIGHLY desirable. I looked on Gunbroker.com and found clean specimens of the GW single-actions bringing pretty good prices. Most were plated, and peeling. A stainless one would rare indeed, and far more valuable. Also, it could be polished like new! You can't get away with that with blued or plated guns. I love that feature... If they get a little beat up, just sand 'em down, and polish 'em up! Sure hope it IS stainless... If so, it would last 4-ever... I'd never part with it! Ride (and shoot) safe! Leo I was just over their house the other day ,and I thought it said stainless. I'll have to check again to be sure . I'll take a pic next time . I may be wrong. |
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Post by geh3333 on Mar 13, 2015 17:03:04 GMT -5
I'm going to have to get the exact model off my dads GW . if I'm reading correctly they made reproductions " made by Great Western " not too long ago . his may be one of them . when I looked them up , I found many stainless models but they may be the newer reproductions that the put out. Top dollar seems to be around $850 or so .
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Post by oldchopperguy on Mar 13, 2015 18:24:02 GMT -5
I wasn't aware of the reproductions. AMAZING! The original GW guns were close reproductions of the Colt SA Army, and then, they made reproductions of the reproductions. How cool is THAT?... LOL!
It WOULD make sense that the later repops would be available in stainless. I'll bet they are great quality, and in stainless they'd be hard to beat for anyone wanting a good, rust-free Colt type SA they could use without worrying so much about corrosion.
Something tells me your Dad got himself a real winner there!!! And cheesh, I remember just before the TV Western craze of the early fifties, dealers being loaded down with original Colt SA revolvers and couldn't get rid of them for more than $35... Then came Maverick, Cheyenne, Paladin, Matt Dillon, Wyatt Earp... The $35 Colts "skyrocketed" to near $100... An UNHEARD of price for the old smokepoles... LOL! Then Bill Ruger introduced the .22 Single Six, and center-fire Blackhawk and the rest is history! The Great Westerns were only a few years ahead of their time. Being VERY true copies of the Colt, today they would sell like pardons in a Turkish prison...
Keep yer' powder dry!
Leo
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