Sophomore Rider
Currently Offline
Posts: 139
Likes: 20
Joined: Mar 2, 2013 6:30:15 GMT -5
|
Post by dyoung1167 on Jan 2, 2015 0:10:42 GMT -5
this is getting out of hand. here is the deal. there is no such thing as 2 phase (not in power generation). a two wire stator makes a FULL wave ac circuit but it cannot make 2 full waves 180 degrees out of sinc with each other. a rectifier can only use the positive "half" to make dc. whence its called a half wave rectifier or pulsing dc. but that still takes two wires. three wires allow for the "WAVES" to be out of sinc with each other so that as one is in the negative (not going through the diode) another is in the positive cycle and going through the diode making it a constant dc.
for the record i just wanted to know about the wiring of the r/r's. i only want to know what each wire does because diagrams are a dime a dozen and no 2 alike. if i had a good diagram i would not be asking, so stop bickering
|
|
Sophomore Rider
Currently Offline
Posts: 139
Likes: 20
Joined: Mar 2, 2013 6:30:15 GMT -5
|
Post by dyoung1167 on Jan 2, 2015 0:24:20 GMT -5
I still don't know what a triple phase is nor have you shown me . Did I miss something ? I know what I know , I know what I don't know when facing a problem or failure . I apply what I do know and search for answers to what I don't . The wave forms in the pictures on the graph is very pretty , was that to explain triple phase . www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12563152 (result of google search) Yep, I'd say you're missing something alright...... And I don't mean that sarcastically... Do you understand the difference AC 120/240/480 volts? If you have a device that operates at 10 amps, at 120 volts AC, it will only require 5 Amps at 240... It's under this principle a full wave R/R will allow you to double your current in most circumstances. Now, picture this, a 120 volt line only needs three lines; ground/earth, hot and nuetral (think of this as single phase alternator with only two output wire (green, yellow and white))....AC 120 eqv would be Black, White and bare.... Now, 240 Volt AC has 4 wires; ground/earth-bare, hot-black, live-red and neutral-white. Think of this as the 3 phase stator. It has 4 wires, 3 AC, Hot, LIVE and Neutral and of course your ground. This is the same principal with these stators. The point of the pics was to illustrate how tapping the coil windings differently you can either have a single or 3 phase stator.... I don't understand how much simpler I could explain it... sorry but you are wrong. the neutral you speak of is only for a 120v circuit of the 240v service. i think you are refering to a newer stove with a clock and timer. a simple 240v stove (dryer even) need only two phases (each at 120v) out of phase with eachother and nothing else to work. the neutral is only there for a 120v single phase circuit(clock), and the ground is only for safety purposes. |
|
|
|
Post by dmartin95 on Jan 2, 2015 0:50:10 GMT -5
sorry but you are wrong. the neutral you speak of is only for a 120v circuit of the 240v service. i think you are refering to a newer stove with a clock and timer. a simple 240v stove (dryer even) need only two phases (each at 120v) out of phase with eachother and nothing else to work. the neutral is only there for a 120v single phase circuit(clock), and the ground is only for safety purposes. Yes, you're right. I was trying to draw an analogy based on the wire count in the circuits but it was bad analaogy.... I was only pointing out there's two types of GY6 stators, what's termed "single phase" and 3 phase. Single Phase stators as you pointed out, only can make a "Half wave" for the R/R. A 3 phase stator allows (as you pointed out) you to get the full wave.... I at no point said there was a GY6 2 phase stator. And something I want to point out.... I wasn't "Bickering" with anyone.... I know you started this thread, but TVNACMAN directly quoted me and that's what I was replying to... So, I hope you don't take offense, and your thread wasn't being hijacked.... I'm on here to learn and share... My terminology was off and because of this thread I can explain it better using the proper terminology.... |
|
|
|
Post by tvnacman on Jan 2, 2015 6:58:51 GMT -5
 This is the primary as to what you need , I'm sure the 5 wire regulator will work . You could have a reduced output if it has a 3 phase input I would lean towards full wave unless it is stated otherwise . Based on cost better to go with the 7pin and have choices than the 6 or 5 . Part of the reason the guys that buy electrical parts from me is , if you get premature failure I work with them to correct causes and prorate . John |
|
|
|
Post by jerseyboy on Jan 2, 2015 9:35:34 GMT -5
Im learning alot from this thread,,bickering or friendly debating is always good IMO.
Keep up the good work guys!!
Tom
|
|
Sophomore Rider
Currently Offline
Posts: 139
Likes: 20
Joined: Mar 2, 2013 6:30:15 GMT -5
|
Post by dyoung1167 on Jan 3, 2015 9:27:26 GMT -5
dmartin95, all is good my man, and that also goes for tvnacman and all on here. the new year hasn't done much but help me into an illish mood and i didn't respond in the best of manors. sorry to you all about that.
on a good note, still learning and that is the point of these things.
|
|
|
|
Post by tvnacman on Jan 3, 2015 9:35:36 GMT -5
Guys , where did you find stators listed as single phase and 3 phase same for regulators ? Please post the links .
John
|
|
Sophomore Rider
Currently Offline
Posts: 139
Likes: 20
Joined: Mar 2, 2013 6:30:15 GMT -5
|
Post by dyoung1167 on Jan 3, 2015 10:36:19 GMT -5
tvnacman , i haven't seen them listed as such, but looking the color coding was my reference. two wires of a diff. color is single phase, 3 of the same color (because they all do exactly the same) are three phase. that is also why i went with the cheaper 5 wire (three yellow feeding, green and red out) But i would like to understand why they are called "11 pole" as your pic showing the windings, there is only 9 (for normal power) and then the tenth for cdi charging, but there are not 11. A good while back i even saw what was labeled as a "12 pole" scooter upgrade. the 6 and 8 versions actually have that many if you count in the cdi coil.
|
|
|
|
Post by tvnacman on Jan 3, 2015 10:49:30 GMT -5
 This is a 3 phase stator , some call it 11 pole . John |
|
Sophomore Rider
Currently Offline
Posts: 139
Likes: 20
Joined: Mar 2, 2013 6:30:15 GMT -5
|
Post by dyoung1167 on Jan 3, 2015 10:58:16 GMT -5
mentioned earlier was the HZ. i think dmartin95 was curious. as they sit hz is going to very with the rpm. one full rev of the engine is also one full cycle of the wave form. even on the three phase each leg will only get one cycle. that said, unless these regulators have some way of controlling them the Hz on these should match the rpm of the engine, and now i have to wonder about portable gens because any loads makes them go full throttle (mostly for current i know) but are they 60Hz or are they higher? i know 60 is the household norm but maybe as long as it's at least 60 most things don't much care Damn it man this just keeps getting deeper LOL. |
|
Sophomore Rider
Currently Offline
Posts: 139
Likes: 20
Joined: Mar 2, 2013 6:30:15 GMT -5
|
Post by dyoung1167 on Jan 3, 2015 11:12:06 GMT -5
now i have to go find the pic of the stator that matched your illustration pic for three phase which happened to be the first one i looked at and now can't find. maybe my counting was $#!@, haha . what could the odd pole be for? due to the fact each leg makes the same voltage, they would have the same number of poles (3 each, and the same number of windings per pole). does the forth have maybe all three phases wrapped on it? it's the only thing that makes sense to me but it really doesn't.
|
|
Sophomore Rider
Currently Offline
Posts: 139
Likes: 20
Joined: Mar 2, 2013 6:30:15 GMT -5
|
Post by dyoung1167 on Jan 3, 2015 11:38:46 GMT -5
|
|
|
|
Post by tvnacman on Jan 3, 2015 11:46:49 GMT -5
mentioned earlier was the HZ. i think dmartin95 was curious. as they sit hz is going to very with the rpm. one full rev of the engine is also one full cycle of the wave form. even on the three phase each leg will only get one cycle. that said, unless these regulators have some way of controlling them the Hz on these should match the rpm of the engine, and now i have to wonder about portable gens because any loads makes them go full throttle (mostly for current i know) but are they 60Hz or are they higher? i know 60 is the household norm but maybe as long as it's at least 60 most things don't much care Damn it man this just keeps getting deeper LOL. the above is off a little , it would be 2 to 1 ( on a 4 stroke ) the crank does two revolutions to one of the cam . The fact that the magneto is mounted on the crank . As humans we over complicate things . John |
|
Sophomore Rider
Currently Offline
Posts: 139
Likes: 20
Joined: Mar 2, 2013 6:30:15 GMT -5
|
Post by dyoung1167 on Jan 3, 2015 13:04:21 GMT -5
tvnacman, i think you mean the crank does 2 strokes for every one compression stroke. at 1000 rpms we are only getting 500 compression/combustion strokes but the crank and whence stator see all 1000. these actually send a useless spark at TDC of the exhaust stroke also, due to the trigger coil having no choice but to send its signal every revolution.
|
|
|
|
Post by JerryScript on Jan 3, 2015 13:39:52 GMT -5
I've often wanted to play around with the idea of using TMGs to harness the engine heat to generate electricity instead of using a stator. I build Stirling engines as a hobby, and a TMG is basically a Stirling cycle. Probably be too heavy to make it worthwhile, but even smaller systems could at least charge the battery, taking that load off the stator/engine combo.  |
|
